who knows the facts on this matter........

[Sofiyya 1,687]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

Edited May 9, 2009 by Barza Woman

[Ihavequestions 419]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

[karimcharleen 0]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

[karimcharleen 0]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

well he has said he only can afford one wife, and no one else in his family has more than one wife. but if it did turn out that he decided hee wanted another, he'd loose me cause i'd divorce him. i have questioned him about this stuff, so he knows how i feel of this.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

Morocco changed its law a few years ago making it illegal to marry more than 1 wife without the first wife's permission and further scrutiny from the court. It is not a man's right in Islam to have more than 1 wife. The Quran makes it clear that the allowance is intended to provide protection for unaffiliated women and their property, and even advises against it, due to Allah's great demands on those who enter into that trust. The perversion that some men have made it is not a reflection in the faith, but proof that Allah was right about the hubris to which humans are highly suseptible. He vividly warns of the hellfire to come when His limits are violated re multiple marriage and family relations.

Muslims are also called upon to observe the laws of the land they are living in, as long as they do not prevent them from the practicing the fundamentals of their faith. Plural marriage is a regulated and limited permission given with conditions that need to be present before the permission even exists. Any man who marries another woman while married to another without observing the limits and conditions is not acting as a Muslim seeking to please God and protect women, but out of his own lust. Not everything that a Muslim does is Islamic.

Besides, in the US, there are no second spouses, since there is no recognition of the legality of a marital relationship beyond the first husband or first wife. Mormon break away sects that encourage men to "marry" several women acknowledge that there is only one legal wife in such households. The rest are "spiritual wives", who are subject to community support. Their practice is not analygous to Muslim plural marriage in which all wives would be legal.

In the US, having one legal wife, who would automatically benefit from the marital estate, and other less than legal mistresses would violate the directive that all wives be treated equally. The lawyers I work with have taken on cases in the US where legal wives confronted in widowhood or divorce with their husband's mistress "wives". The mistresses are easily left with nothing, since the legal wife is the only one with recognized rights, even when a will distributes property to the mistresses, for marital assets fall to the legal wife after death, and are subject to court adjudication during divorce.

If a legal wife puts up with her husband's mistress, that is a situation that has been agreed upon between them. It is not necessarily a situation sanctioned by Islam.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Barza Woman

[Sofiyya 1,687]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

She is probably as unaware as you are that this has nothing to do with Islam. I'm happy to hear that this is not his idea. I'm curious as to why you would want a fake marriage that confers nothing just so you can stay in hotels together? Also, most foreign owned hotels in Morocco don't care if you are married or not. Besides, unmarried western women traveling with Moroccan men aren't thought of a paragons of virtue, so no one is looking to protect your honor anyway. That is up to you and your man to do.

[karimcharleen 0]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

Morocco changed its law a few years ago making it illegal to marry more than 1 wife without the first wife's permission and further scrutiny from the court. It is not a man's right in Islam to have more than 1 wife. The Quran makes it clear that the allowance is intended to provide protection for unaffiliated women and their property, and even advises against it, due to Allah's great demands on those who enter into that trust. The perversion that some men have made it is not a reflection in the faith, but proof that Allah was right about the hubris to which humans are highly suseptible. He vividly warns of the hellfire to come when His limits are violated re multiple marriage and family relations.

Muslims are also called upon to observe the laws of the land they are living in, as long as they do not prevent them from the practicing the fundamentals of their faith. Plural marriage is a regulated and limited permission given with conditions that need to be present before the permission even exists. Any man who marries another woman while married to another without observing the limits and conditions is not acting as a Muslim seeking to please God and protect women, but out of his own lust. Not everything that a Muslim does is Islamic.

Besides, in the US, there are no second spouses, since there is no recognition of the legality of a marital relationship beyond the first husband or first wife. Mormon break away sects that encourage men to "marry" several women acknowledge that there is only one legal wife in such households. The rest are "spiritual wives", who are subject to community support. Their practice is not analygous to Muslim plural marriage in which all wives would be legal.

In the US, having one legal wife, who would automatically benefit from the marital estate, and other less than legal mistresses would violate the directive that all wives be treated equally. The lawyers I work with have taken on cases in the US where legal wives confronted in widowhood or divorce with their husband's mistress "wives". The mistresses are easily left with nothing, since the legal wife is the only one with recognized rights, even when a will distributes property to the mistresses, for marital assets fall to the legal wife after death, and are subject to court adjudication during divorce.

If a legal wife puts up with her husband's mistress, that is a situation that has been agreed upon between them. It is not necessarily a situation sanctioned by Islam.

i agree with what you have said, it totally makes since. i like learning stuff and some this was really great to learn. as for he and i, we want a real marriage. and we want to do things the right/legal way of both countries. aslo i have a question, how could i become a dual citizen of both countries? i don't think even if we married there it would quailify me for that just by marriage alone.

[karimcharleen 0]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

Morocco changed its law a few years ago making it illegal to marry more than 1 wife without the first wife's permission and further scrutiny from the court. It is not a man's right in Islam to have more than 1 wife. The Quran makes it clear that the allowance is intended to provide protection for unaffiliated women and their property, and even advises against it, due to Allah's great demands on those who enter into that trust. The perversion that some men have made it is not a reflection in the faith, but proof that Allah was right about the hubris to which humans are highly suseptible. He vividly warns of the hellfire to come when His limits are violated re multiple marriage and family relations.

Muslims are also called upon to observe the laws of the land they are living in, as long as they do not prevent them from the practicing the fundamentals of their faith. Plural marriage is a regulated and limited permission given with conditions that need to be present before the permission even exists. Any man who marries another woman while married to another without observing the limits and conditions is not acting as a Muslim seeking to please God and protect women, but out of his own lust. Not everything that a Muslim does is Islamic.

Besides, in the US, there are no second spouses, since there is no recognition of the legality of a marital relationship beyond the first husband or first wife. Mormon break away sects that encourage men to "marry" several women acknowledge that there is only one legal wife in such households. The rest are "spiritual wives", who are subject to community support. Their practice is not analygous to Muslim plural marriage in which all wives would be legal.

In the US, having one legal wife, who would automatically benefit from the marital estate, and other less than legal mistresses would violate the directive that all wives be treated equally. The lawyers I work with have taken on cases in the US where legal wives confronted in widowhood or divorce with their husband's mistress "wives". The mistresses are easily left with nothing, since the legal wife is the only one with recognized rights, even when a will distributes property to the mistresses, for marital assets fall to the legal wife after death, and are subject to court adjudication during divorce.

If a legal wife puts up with her husband's mistress, that is a situation that has been agreed upon between them. It is not necessarily a situation sanctioned by Islam.

we not need it to stay in hotels ourselves really. ann , had told me that she and her guy did it so they could stay together in places and rent a house together. but when i ask karim about it he said he not know of such a thing, and it couldn't be a real marriage if it was not sent to consulate/embassy to be logged in records. me, i just want us to do the fastest way for us to be together. some say k-1 faster, some say do k-3, so idk really the best. but i want to get this started, so maybe do k-1 and go there for awhile for a visit with him and his family

[Berber Mama 5]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

She is probably as unaware as you are that this has nothing to do with Islam. I'm happy to hear that this is not his idea. I'm curious as to why you would want a fake marriage that confers nothing just so you can stay in hotels together? Also, most foreign owned hotels in Morocco don't care if you are married or not. Besides, unmarried western women traveling with Moroccan men aren't thought of a paragons of virtue, so no one is looking to protect your honor anyway. That is up to you and your man to do.

Just wanted to add that at a few of the more "upscale" hotels that we stayed in we were required to produce a copy of our Nikah. This is a marriage contract KarimCharleen and is not the same as being married religiously. So if a hotel were to ask for a copy and you didn't have a Nikah (a real marriage contract) you would have to rent two separate rooms.

[karimcharleen 0]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

She is probably as unaware as you are that this has nothing to do with Islam. I'm happy to hear that this is not his idea. I'm curious as to why you would want a fake marriage that confers nothing just so you can stay in hotels together? Also, most foreign owned hotels in Morocco don't care if you are married or not. Besides, unmarried western women traveling with Moroccan men aren't thought of a paragons of virtue, so no one is looking to protect your honor anyway. That is up to you and your man to do.

Just wanted to add that at a few of the more "upscale" hotels that we stayed in we were required to produce a copy of our Nikah. This is a marriage contract KarimCharleen and is not the same as being married religiously. So if a hotel were to ask for a copy and you didn't have a Nikah (a real marriage contract) you would have to rent two separate rooms.

yes we know of that, and that is not a problem for us, we did that when we went to rabat and casa blanca. i just not understand what ann ment by they did this "marriage" she talked of, and karim he not know what she was talking about when i asked him

[Berber Mama 5]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

She is probably as unaware as you are that this has nothing to do with Islam. I'm happy to hear that this is not his idea. I'm curious as to why you would want a fake marriage that confers nothing just so you can stay in hotels together? Also, most foreign owned hotels in Morocco don't care if you are married or not. Besides, unmarried western women traveling with Moroccan men aren't thought of a paragons of virtue, so no one is looking to protect your honor anyway. That is up to you and your man to do.

Just wanted to add that at a few of the more "upscale" hotels that we stayed in we were required to produce a copy of our Nikah. This is a marriage contract KarimCharleen and is not the same as being married religiously. So if a hotel were to ask for a copy and you didn't have a Nikah (a real marriage contract) you would have to rent two separate rooms.

yes we know of that, and that is not a problem for us, we did that when we went to rabat and casa blanca. i just not understand what ann ment by they did this "marriage" she talked of, and karim he not know what she was talking about when i asked him

plain and simple, it's not a marriage. it's never a marriage until you have been approved by the courts to marry, married by an adoul and have your paperwork filed with the moroccan court. a religious ceremony without these other two steps is NOT a marriage.

[karimcharleen 0]

An Islamic marriage is like any religious marriage; it's not legal unless rcognized by an authorized government entity. The kind of arrangement you're talking about is what's called a paper marriage or an urfi marriage. It is not legal in Islam and no legitimate imam is going to conduct a fake marriage so you can stay in hotels together since Islam requires chastity before marriage. And, it is disengenuos to abid by the laws of the US t get the visa, while ignoring the laws of a Muslim country re how to to be married Islamically. As a Muslim, I find it insulting that a Muslim man would allow his beloved to believe such a thing is ok.

Some western women, uneducated in Islam and the culture of Morocco, have fallen for this, but an honorable Muslim man will not suggest that a woman "fake marry" him so they can sleep together, and then file for a K1 visa. I would suggest that before you marry a man whose culture and religion you are clearly in the dark about, you make a greater effort to learn more about both, or accept the fact that you could be easily lead astray. As charles stated, paper marriage has been discussed countless times on the MENA board. Here is a related discussion that may be useful to you.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...192364&st=0

he not the one thatbrought this up, a girl was telling me this is what she has did and will file the k-1 when she come sback from morocco at the end of this month

She is probably as unaware as you are that this has nothing to do with Islam. I'm happy to hear that this is not his idea. I'm curious as to why you would want a fake marriage that confers nothing just so you can stay in hotels together? Also, most foreign owned hotels in Morocco don't care if you are married or not. Besides, unmarried western women traveling with Moroccan men aren't thought of a paragons of virtue, so no one is looking to protect your honor anyway. That is up to you and your man to do.

Just wanted to add that at a few of the more "upscale" hotels that we stayed in we were required to produce a copy of our Nikah. This is a marriage contract KarimCharleen and is not the same as being married religiously. So if a hotel were to ask for a copy and you didn't have a Nikah (a real marriage contract) you would have to rent two separate rooms.

yes we know of that, and that is not a problem for us, we did that when we went to rabat and casa blanca. i just not understand what ann ment by they did this "marriage" she talked of, and karim he not know what she was talking about when i asked him

plain and simple, it's not a marriage. it's never a marriage until you have been approved by the courts to marry, married by an adoul and have your paperwork filed with the moroccan court. a religious ceremony without these other two steps is NOT a marriage.

thank you so much for all your information, you are very helpful. and i'll pass on this information to ann, so she'll know as well. i think she believes that she is married to jalal in the eyes of morocco but not in the eyes of usa.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Sounds like you have a good man, Charleen. Best wishes to you both!

[karimcharleen 0]

Sounds like you have a good man, Charleen. Best wishes to you both!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WISHES, STAY BLESSED

[HLM 1]

as for him getting a 2nd wife i have not thought of that

Well, you need to think about it and you need to decide if that's something you can accept, if it should happen. And NO he does not need to ask permission to take another because it is his right to have as many as four wives.

plus in usa he only aloud 1 wife by law.

Technically, that's true. However, how many multiple-wife Mormon wives are actually prosecuted? Few, if any. And what has been prosecuted has been connected to a wife who was underage. There are many, many multiple wife, religiously sanctioned, marriages in the United States.

Besides, what's to say he won't go back home and marry another? It's legal there, isn't it?

To the bolded...she can add it to the marriage contract that she will not accept him having another wife. In Egypt it's acceptable.