Doing the whole dual citizen thing......

[Hugglebuggles 60]

Wow, I'm really excited that I get to be American in a few years. I love Canada, don't get me wrong, but the US has always had a strange draw for me. I started following American politics when I was 12, and American history shortly after, its always fascinated me. I have my own copy of the Federalist papers, and I've read "Democracy in America" twice In my 3rd year American Government class I ended up correcting the prof several times... He wasn't even an American. No country is perfect, and the US is certainly not void of its flaws, but there are many flaws within Canadian government and the Canadian democracy I certainly don't agree with either. Looking back, its very strange I ended up meeting and falling in love with an American... That certainly wasn't part of my plan. If I had never met Bill I would have lived in Canada my whole life, but things happen for a reason...

Perhaps its easier for me to say this considering I've never actually LIVED in the US. I let you know if I feel the same way next year, after living and adapting to the American way!

So you will be an American? That is how you will identify yourself?

Interesting - I never would and I am a dual citizen from birth. I don't know that I had a strong sense of 'Canadianess' until I started researching my ancestors (to document my U.S. citizenship).

They loved Canada and I saw it the way they saw it and I read about how hard they worked to live there - it was tough going back in the day

The other difference I find is the 'state of mind' in the U.S. What does not having a universal healthcare system say about a country as a whole, for instance.

It's just different.

I don't know... I guess I haven't put that much thought into it. I just don't see becoming American as an abandonment of my roots or my identity in anyway. I really embrace it, opposed to being fearful or skeptical about it. Honestly, I've never felt a huge patriotic tie to Canada like some others do... I face a Canadian identify crisis. I'm a third generation but I'm really insure of my roots... I don't really know where my ancestors come from and I really can't trace it either. I don't know a lot of my family... I don't feel this strong connection to where I am and where I've come from. This not to say that I don't love Canada, because I really do... I just can't describe it or root it in anything. Its just something that will always be inside of me no matter where I go or what country I live in. Will I always identify myself as a Canadian in a citizenship sense? I'm not really sure... guess I can't really answer that question until I'm at that point! I'll get back to you in like 10 years ok?

[minnew 4]

To add to my earlier post, If I do decide to apply for US citizenship it will be for reasons of my children, but also due to my future hubbys employment in the AF. I am starting to wonder how citizenship would affect my ability to live and work overseas if he were to get orders to say Germany or Japan? I heard somewhere that citizenship may be expedited even if you haven't met the time requirement if he does have overseas orders. I also hope that they keep the policy that spouses do not have to officially renounce citizenship if your husband or wife has security clearances, as that would affect me greatly.

[Cassie 8]

I feel the same way - and I submitted my application for citizenship last week. The cheque cleared today. I thought long and hard as well - and it is the same thing - the oath. I will say the words but in my heart of hearts I will always be Canadian first. If the US didn't make it so darned hard being a PR in the US then it wouldn't be an issue, but like our choice to live in the US, this choice too is for pragmatic reasons. That being said, I fully intend to be a good US citizen but I would be a good citizen in whatever community I live regardless of citizenship - it is just something in which I believe.

So, I too will cross my fingers and toes. I'm thinking of wearing the flag pin that has both the US and Canadian flag together on it as well as that is the true state of affairs. It is not either/or - it is both.

I am glad that I am not the only one that feels this way, thanks everyone for the dialogue. I am with you Kathryn, I am not doing this for the love of the US, but because it makes life easier in the long run (in my mind, at least). I guess if those words weren't in the oath I wouldn't care so much, but I guess I feel like it's one more thing I am turning my back on (figuratively speaking) and I am not sure I want to go there. I guess I will sit on it some more and see how I feel once we have the fee saved up.

[Cassie 8]

I think I'd want to start yelling Vive le Canada! afterwards... LOL

Hehehe that is what I was thinking too -- I can see myself raising my other hand afterwards and saying "can I add a caveat to that? Um, Canada, I don't really mean this -- see, look, my fingers are crossed" LOL

[trailmix 77]

Will I always identify myself as a Canadian in a citizenship sense? I'm not really sure... guess I can't really answer that question until I'm at that point! I'll get back to you in like 10 years ok?

Actually get back to us in a year - let's see what you have discovered!

Oh and back to the main topic - if I had to say the oath, I could do it, I just see it as a practical matter, something you have to say that doesn't really make any sense. My Husband and I have discussed this as well, because of course we may decide to apply for his citizenship here, down the road. He feels the same way.

[Reba 2]

I guess it depends on how you define it yourself. Is citizenship a piece of paper, or a state of being? For me it is a state of being, and I just can't "be American". I just can't. And I wouldn't be here at all if my husband hadn't been deemed inadmissable by Canadian immgration. Even *he* doesn't like it here, and would prefer to be in Canada.

To me the oath is not just a bunch of words within a means to an end. If I were to say them, I'd have to really mean them. And there's no way I can forsee that ever happening. There are just too many things to disagree with.

[Hugglebuggles 60]

Will I always identify myself as a Canadian in a citizenship sense? I'm not really sure... guess I can't really answer that question until I'm at that point! I'll get back to you in like 10 years ok?

Actually get back to us in a year - let's see what you have discovered!

Oh and back to the main topic - if I had to say the oath, I could do it, I just see it as a practical matter, something you have to say that doesn't really make any sense. My Husband and I have discussed this as well, because of course we may decide to apply for his citizenship here, down the road. He feels the same way.

Ok sounds good... We'll make a "Huggles rude awakenings in the US" thread

My fiance said I'm just enthralled with being in the US and being American at the moment and that It will probably change... I don't know, he might be right. Sometimes I think he knows me more then I know myself.

But I guess the state of mind thing is right. If your state of mine forever stays Canadian then what does it matter what a piece of paper says anyways? That's where I'm stuck.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Hugglebuggles

[Cassie 8]

I guess it depends on how you define it yourself. Is citizenship a piece of paper, or a state of being? For me it is a state of being, and I just can't "be American". I just can't. And I wouldn't be here at all if my husband hadn't been deemed inadmissable by Canadian immgration. Even *he* doesn't like it here, and would prefer to be in Canada.

To me the oath is not just a bunch of words within a means to an end. If I were to say them, I'd have to really mean them. And there's no way I can forsee that ever happening. There are just too many things to disagree with.

Aye Reba, you've expressed exactly where I am at. I take promises/commitments/etc seriously, and by taking that oath -- that's a big commitment. And right now, the US looks the other way by me keeping my Canadian citizenship, but what happens when that is no longer the case? Would my choice whether or not to become a citizen be any different?

[Reba 2]

That's where I falter as well Cassie. The words to forsake my home are there, and I would have to speak them. Years down the road if something were to happen that would make the US try to enforce those words, they're not going to care that I had my fingers crossed the whole time. Then I would have to choose.

However, there is no law, or oath requiring me to become a US citizen after X amount of years. I can remain a permanent resident for the rest of my life if needs be. And I'm content to do that and renew my green card every 10 years. And should my husband and I happen to get Canadian immigration sorted out for him, I ain't coming back here

But I will say that my situation is a little different than most everyone else's here. I didn't make the decision to move here. It was made for me. I really didn't want to move here at all, but it was either that, or divorce my husband. I honestly had no delusions previously that the US is the land of milk and honey or any better than Canada. I felt, and still do feel, quite the opposite. So it is not just the part of the oath that I would have to renounce Canada, but all the other stuff in it as well that I just can't say it and mean it.

I even struggled to get married and say the vows. I had to mean it. And I did. Which is why I'm here.

[Chocolot 0]

I already have dual British and Australian Citizenship and never even faltered over taking loyalty to Australia, this is different on many levels, but it needs to be done, so that I never have to go through any uscis stuff ever again.

When we go to Australia, I will lose my permanent residence here, so it has to be done, so I dont have restrictions when we come back to stay with family here etc.

I havent mailed my application even though its all ready to go, because I am just having a lot of difficulty in facing saying those words!

I am so glad I saw this thread and realised how many feel this way.

[SapphireDreams 71]

Honestly, the only reason I would and probably will when the time comes is because we plan on having kids.... and I want to have the same citizenship as my kids and never risk the chance of being deported / having the family split up.

I agree with this, but it isn't really my only reason.

I have no problem becoming American or saying that oath.

I will still consider myself Canadian and American. If my whole life, career, children, home etc. is in the United States - then why wouldn't I want to be a part of it all and vote etc. And, by birth, I'll always be Canadian.

[jundp 191]

Cassie, P won't get US citizenship for the same reason. He says the only benefit to becoming a USC is to vote, since he has to pay taxes regardless If we have any children together they'll be dual citizens and he'll only consider becoming a USC if we decide to move back to Germany in the future, because then it would allow us to return to the US again eventually without having to go through hoops again.

We've talked a lot about this, and in order for him to get USC, he has to first apply for and be granted permission by the German government and there's a specific window of time in which to gain his USC. But he just doesn't know if he can say the oath of allegiance...

[warlord 73]

I didn't even think twice about it. I was happy to stand up and say that I declare the oath. I was even more happier afterwards when I could say I was finally a proud US citizen to anyone in the world.

Now with the wording of things, I honestly didn't even pay attention to what I was saying. They have it all written down for you to read, so I being me, just mumbled everything anyways. The funny thing is the whole 300 of us were all speaking faster or slower then others and then everyone burst out laughing as everyone was confused as to where we were.

I think we had to do the Pledge of Alliegiance too and I'm not into the whole 'god' thing at all myself, but I didn't care, I still said it without worrying about it at all.

I definatly though wouldn't let anything like that stop you from becomming a USC at all. To me it was probably one of the greatest moments in my life having that feeling right then. Going wow, I'm finally a citizen, I'm free to roam North America at will to live and work (not that I ever would, plus excluding Mexico), but having at least 2 countries just even having another place to live if you ever wanted to was really cool to know that I wasn't tied down to one single country in the world and I did have an option if I ever desperatly needed it...

[Heracles 417]

Interesting points of views. Most of which I agree with.

I am in a similar predicament, do I become a citizen so I don't have to go through this process again? Or do we just move to Australia and IF we decide to come back, I just reapply for PR again.

I do have a problem with the wording during the ceremony. My parents were immigrants to Australia. I'm a first born. That country has given my family and I an opportunity that very few get in this world, apart from maybe Canadians and handful of other first world nations. So how can I turn my back on it?

I don't want to apply just for the status as I feel like I would be cheating America, if I did. It would be the equivalent of entering a marriage under false pretenses. Now, it's not as if I have not grown to love this country either. I just have a hard time declaring that my allegiance technically overrides that of my birth country.

It is also interesting that most of us here discussing it are from first world countries. Whereas, you look at others and they jump into it, no questions asked.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Constellation

[Ladylethal 12]

I feel the same way - and I submitted my application for citizenship last week. The cheque cleared today. I thought long and hard as well - and it is the same thing - the oath. I will say the words but in my heart of hearts I will always be Canadian first. If the US didn't make it so darned hard being a PR in the US then it wouldn't be an issue, but like our choice to live in the US, this choice too is for pragmatic reasons. That being said, I fully intend to be a good US citizen but I would be a good citizen in whatever community I live regardless of citizenship - it is just something in which I believe.

So, I too will cross my fingers and toes. I'm thinking of wearing the flag pin that has both the US and Canadian flag together on it as well as that is the true state of affairs. It is not either/or - it is both.

I think like you, I'll go down that path for pragmatic reasons only and although I don't like the wording of the oath I'll do it just to make our lives easier (especially if we want to live back in Brasil a few years and knowing we can return here whenever we feel like to stay or to visit).

I'd be a law abiding resident/citizen regardless of being naturalized in whatever community I was a part of, but in my heart I'll ALWAYS be brazilian.