See if you can solve this puzzle

[rooster 1]

Let's agree to disagree on this matter of illegal alien = criminal/crime. I can understand how it irritates those of you who are doing it the right way, but in my opinion that still doesn't give anyone the right to label me as a criminal. Especially since you don't know how much we tried to become legal residents. We didn't sneak into the country, we arrived as visitors, because we had no clue how to start an immigration process. We thought that you do that once you are in the country. Back then Internet was still something new and I had no access to a computer and didn't know how to surf the net. We did contact a lawyer well within the time frame that our visitor's visa and allowed time as a visitor expired, and he advised us to apply for political asylum instead of advising us about other options as well.

How is it my fault that I trusted the lawyer and wasn't lucky enough to find a good lawyer all the three times that we did take their help? At least we were trying to become legal, we spent money on lawyers, all the while working with a work permit, which we admittedly let expire after many years, but up till then we were in the country legally actually, and even after that we still tried to become legal. You can't just give up and leave everything behind that you have built up, just because you're suddenly an illegal. That's being a coward actually. We considered other options, other ways to still become legal. It didn't work out. Good thing we didn't have to go back to the country we had left behind. No, it's not a high crime country, but it's still a developing country, hard to make a living, etc. Good thing we had started our immigration process to Canada, so that we only had to go back to our country for the interview and then arrive in Canada as permanent residents. We couldn't be legal residents in the US, but we succeeded in Canada. I'm proud of our achievement. And I love Canada forever! I will make sure to be a great contributing resident of this beautiful country.

However, you're of course entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else, including me. Thanks for the good wishes, though. I wish you all well in your individual journeys, and hopefully you will never find yourself in a situation where you may have to break a rule or a law... no matter how minor, or else you will burden yourself with this label you are so eager to put on another.

Good luck to you too.

I never said that I have never commited any crime. I HAVE been guilty of speeding and other minor stuff. Truth be known, MOST people have been guilty of something in thier lives. Unfortunately for you, your's is one that is causing you problems. I also agreed that yours was a MINOR offense. I wasn't trying to offend you, only trying to explain some of the lack of tolerence for immigration offenses on this board. If I offended you, I apologise. In hindsight, I can see where you could have. I also did try to offer you a possible scenario as well. And, the wish for good luck was sincere.

And on another note, I can see where you would love Canada. I have traveled a decent amount of it and found most people friendly. In case you haven't made it there, go to the Maritimes!! They are the best. (biased opinion here).

[Caladan 19]

The immigration violation tracks you, not your citizenship, so whatever ban you incurred with the U.S. would still be in effect (even given that Canada doesn't care about it.) You'd probably be better off having your stuff shipped, and you might want to contact an attorney who can help you figure out exactly what your status w.r.t. U.S. immigration now.

[Turtoise 0]

Thanks Caladan and Rooster. I never doubted the sincerity of your good luck wishes, and mine are sincere as well. For sure Canadians are a friendly bunch and I'm also enjoying the relaxed atmosphere here.

[justashooter 430]

Actually, it seems odd to me that it's seen as a crime, but I guess it is considered a crime. Reason why I don't see it as a crime, is because we tried to become legal residents. When it didn't happen after trying 3 times, we left. Yes, we were forced to leave, but we cooperated.

this kind of cavalier attitude toward immigration law demonstrates that you are not suitable material for American permanant residency, much less citizenship. there are enough fools born in this country every year. we don't need to import any more.

[catknit 144]

I'm not really sure it is a cavalier attitude so much as a really sticky situation. I've been reading threads here in just about every forum for the past year - it seems to me that one of the pieces of advice doled out with regular frequency is that if a date is missed for removing conditions, the infamous 1 year window for F catergory visas is missed, anything that's a mistake that puts someone out of status, dealing with an overstayed student/work visa and having married/been engaged to a USC, etc etc etc, that poster should go straight to a good immigration attorney and follow the attorney's advice.

Of course it isn't my place to fill in this specific OP's back story - BUT - any of the people who get that advice from the vj collective could be in this EXACT situation 4-5 years down the road. They went to an attorney, the attorney advised x, y, z - those options didn't pan out and they were placed in removal proceedings. Is that a result of being here illegally? Yup. Even the OP is agreeable to that fact - but it appears she and her husband tried exhausting every legal avenue here first - which they were allowed to do. I really don't understand the malice against that. They came here legally, were working legally, missed an expiration date and tried to remedy the situation - couldn't and left - as required. She only came looking for help...

[Turtoise 0]

Actually, it seems odd to me that it's seen as a crime, but I guess it is considered a crime. Reason why I don't see it as a crime, is because we tried to become legal residents. When it didn't happen after trying 3 times, we left. Yes, we were forced to leave, but we cooperated.

this kind of cavalier attitude toward immigration law demonstrates that you are not suitable material for American permanant residency, much less citizenship. there are enough fools born in this country every year. we don't need to import any more.

Ughh... It's this kind of attitude that makes the US hated across the globe. Don't worry, I don't intend to come back to your precious country to try and get permanent residency or citizenship. I'm perfectly happy here in Canada, thank you very much. If I had known of Canada before trying to build a better life in the US after leaving my home country, I would have come to Canada in the first place. Compared to the States people here have a bigger heart and the country is just as beautiful, if not more beautiful than the US. So don't even think for a minute that I miss the US and want to come back. All I want is my stuff, and then I can close that chapter for good.

I guess I came to the wrong forum to post my question. I posted the same question at the link provided by Bantam, and people are way more helpful (and civilized) over there. Thanks again, Bantam.

Milo, thank you too for your post. It seems you're one of the few who don't see things just black and white. Thanks.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Turtoise

[justashooter 430]

Ughh... It's this kind of attitude that makes the US hated across the globe.

if we are hated because we are a nation of law, then so be it.

let those who choose not to live within the law take their carpetbag somewhere else.

[Turtoise 0]

Oh High and Mighty, if you still haven't noticed, I don't live in the US anymore. And good luck getting rid of all the criminals in your country who are in fact American citizens. Just get off your high horse and accept the fact that there are criminals all over the world, and that there are worse crimes committed than someone trying to become a legal resident.

[Caladan 19]

I'm not really sure it is a cavalier attitude so much as a really sticky situation. I've been reading threads here in just about every forum for the past year - it seems to me that one of the pieces of advice doled out with regular frequency is that if a date is missed for removing conditions, the infamous 1 year window for F catergory visas is missed, anything that's a mistake that puts someone out of status, dealing with an overstayed student/work visa and having married/been engaged to a USC, etc etc etc, that poster should go straight to a good immigration attorney and follow the attorney's advice.

Of course it isn't my place to fill in this specific OP's back story - BUT - any of the people who get that advice from the vj collective could be in this EXACT situation 4-5 years down the road. They went to an attorney, the attorney advised x, y, z - those options didn't pan out and they were placed in removal proceedings. Is that a result of being here illegally? Yup. Even the OP is agreeable to that fact - but it appears she and her husband tried exhausting every legal avenue here first - which they were allowed to do. I really don't understand the malice against that. They came here legally, were working legally, missed an expiration date and tried to remedy the situation - couldn't and left - as required. She only came looking for help...

Right. If someone's permanent residency were to be denied, they'd be in exactly the same situation upon appeal and just as dependent on the advice of a lawyer. (And there are plenty of people here who wait to file for a fiancee and think themselves different than other sorts of overstays, so....) In any case, unlawful presence alone isn't a crime; I don't know ignoring a voluntary deportation agreement would be treated, but many, many immigration violations are not considered criminal offenses.

[Kinito_2k3 5]

Ughh... It's this kind of attitude that makes the US hated across the globe.

if we are hated because we are a nation of law, then so be it.

let those who choose not to live within the law take their carpetbag somewhere else.

You are not hated (if hated) because you are a nation of law...your reaction is overboard, and this is typical, and I can see where it gets offensive/not acceptable for a lot of people. This is probably because American intercultural awareness is very poor, in fact, most Americans never leave their country, and around 80% of the American people never leave their state of birth. So, if you see what I mean, dealing with cultural differences is not a strength down here.

No offense, I love your country, but as a new immigrant, I am highly frustrated by a lot of things (and I am not talking about immigration as it's been very smooth for me)...but when I see that without my wife I couldn't open a wireless ( and this is just an anecdote) account although I have strong financial security...something is wrong down here...oh yeah...the so called "credit scores" hahahah