Israel Plunges Gaza Into Darkness

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Remember these Children

Whenever the politics and rhetoric of this topic get too heated, I visit this site. ya Allah, remember these children.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I find it strange that we went to Iraq on the legal premise that Saddam was breaking UN resolutions, yet guess which country holds the world record for the greatest number of unfulfilled UN resolutions?

I don't think the Palestinians do their cause any good with suicide bombings, kidnappings etc. I don't think they have any specific 'right' to do this, but certainly the anger and resentment is understandable.

Israel is at fault too - but the root of that lies in the origins of that country at the end of WW2. Clearly not everyone will get what they want - there should be a decent compromise however.

The fact is this dispute essentially goes back to the time of the crusades - ownership of the holy land has been contested for over 1000 years, which is why I say that in the best interests of everybody - Jerusalem should have been made an international city (similar to the Vatican). Moot point now of course..

[mawilson 2,133]

"Might" does not make "right." The Palestinian people have not only the will, but the clear right under international law to resist the illegal occupation and annexation of their land.

Right or wrong, not all wars are winnable. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and

admit defeat. Keep fighting and things will get worse. Blowing up a bus or a restaurant here

and there is not going to bring Israel to its knees. The economy is better than ever, tourists

are returning, and the Israelis were never demoralised. Terror attacks? Business as usual.

... creating irreversible facts on the ground in occupied territories...

Irreversible? Fences and walls can be torn down, but lives can never be replaced.

[desert_fox 32]

They have been fighting for over a thousand years now, and will be fighting a thousand years from now if this planet still exists. Fighting over a difference in religion......same cause of virtually every war known to mankind.

[mawilson 2,133]

They have been fighting for over a thousand years now, and will be fighting a thousand years from now if this planet still exists. Fighting over a difference in religion......same cause of virtually every war known to mankind.

Well indeed.....if they had converted to Judaism and learned Hebrew, Israel would welcome them as citizens with open arms.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The issue of a sovereign Palestinian state is a very valid one. However you look at it, there's clearly no justification for terrorism, but neither is there a justification for sending in your military to disrupt peoples lives whenever you feel like making a show of strength.

It just goes to show that the Palestinians are essentially regarded as the n*****s of the middle-east.

"Sand n*****" is the actual term used.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The issue of a sovereign Palestinian state is a very valid one.

but it won't happen. look at the fiasco they had about hamas winning the elections. collectively, they can't even organize a trip to the bathroom.

Yeah right. The U.S. government is allllllll for free elections where people vote for the candidates of their choice, without coersion or pressure.

The Fatah party KNEW their stock was so low with the Palestinian people (due to corruption, ineffectiveness, and outright collaboration with Israel) that they'd never keep the majority of seats in Parliament. They tried to hold off elections for a while. It was the Bush administration that INSISTED that elections be held right away, knowing full well that with the current opinion on the Palestinian street, Hamas candidates would win in a landslide over Fatah.

So Palestinians went to the polls and voted. Now they can be punished for exercising their right to vote.

Nice little Catch-22, isn't it ?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

To secure the release of 1 captured soldier, Israel cuts power and water to 1.3 million people

Not quite. Let's recap. Palestinian terrorists dig a tunnel into Israel, climb out, murder two Israeli soldiers guarding their side of the border and kidnap a third.

Two dead, one kidnapped and threatened with death.

First of all, soldiers who are on duty, actively engaged in a military offensive aren't "murdered" or "kidnapped" by the opposite side; they're "killed" or "captured."

But hmmmm what's missing from your recap -- let's see -- ohhhh all the killings this month that egged on the reaction. Go back and read the first paragraph of post # 1:

Following a series of bloody June attacks on Gaza by Israeli forces, including the weekend shelling of a beach that killed 8 Palestinian civilians, including 7 members of the same family and injured a further 32 civilians, including 13 children (9 June); a missile attack on a Gazan highway that killed eleven and injured 30 (13 June); and another missile attack that killed 3 children and wounded 15 others (20 June), Palestinian militants carried out a raid on Israeli military positions near Gaza on June 25th

So.... the attack on the Israeli soldiers was not exactly unprovoked, now, was it ?

If this weren't enough, Hamas member Moussa Abu Marzouk releases a statement that the Palestinian people appreciate the crime and gives it the government's blessing.

"The resistance fighters have displayed moral and operational superiority over the Israeli army," aide Moussa Abu Marzouk told The Associated Press in an interview Wednesday. "They carried out an act that, I believe, the Palestinian people greatly appreciate."

In a statement, a copy of which was obtained by Aljazeera, Hamas said the capture of the Israeli soldier was a legitimate act since the operation targeted a military post and climaxed with the arrest of the Israeli soldier, which gives the resistance the right to demand the release of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

Al Jazeera

The captured soldier was sitting on a tank aimed at Gaza, after days of deadly attacks that killed 22 Palestinians. Sounds like he'd be a legitimate military target to resistance fighters.

So Israel shut off the power and tap-water, destroyed bridges, and invade a territory they only recently quit, to release their citizen and hope that this time an impoverished people will learn that it's against their interests to initiate murderous incursions.

According to the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory, collective punishment is a war crime.

Now, these fine, upstanding representitives of the Palestinian people have kidnapped an illegal Israeli settler and state he will be, "butchered in front of TV cameras."

Being a member of Hamas does not automatically make you an elected "representative of the Palestinian people."

I don't condone kidnappings of civilians. However, settlers aren't exactly innocent bystanders. Illegal Israeli settlers have been rampaging through the West Bank for the last 30 years, killing, maiming, appropriating land and homes, destroying Palestinian farmland and orchards, and generally terrorizing the Palestinian population with impunity. They are heavily armed by the Israeli government, protected by the Israeli army, and almost never arrested or tried for their crimes. The illegal settlements are funded by the Israeli government, and the settlers are given all sorts of "perks" like free rent, free electricity and water, etc. to move there.

If Israel wants to keep their citizens safe, they ought to stop encouraging these criminals to murder, steal and squat on other people's land.

And as it turns out, he wasn't "butchered in front of TV cameras," but shot to death and dumped in a grave.

Supply both the Palastinians and the Isrealis with a healthy supply of Nukes. The problem will take care of It simply itself!

Israel has a healthy supply of nukes.

Well, unfortunately for Israel, they can't use them on the Palestinians without nuking themselves.

[Fandango 1,439]

Remember these Children

Whenever the politics and rhetoric of this topic get too heated, I visit this site. ya Allah, remember these children.

Are you still hotlinking to stuff?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

According to the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory, collective punishment is a war crime.

That's actually a crucial point. Militant groups and individuals outside of the control or direct influence of the government is somewhat different to authorising your armed forces to go into a country (which you are not formally at war with) and knocking out essential services to the people of the region.

However you look at it, its not justifiable...

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

First of all, soldiers who are on duty, actively engaged in a military offensive aren't "murdered" or "kidnapped" by the opposite side; they're "killed" or "captured."

incorrect. they are killed or captured by an organized, recognizable military. when such occurs due to the action of "freedom fighters" as you term them (what most of the world calls a terrorist) that's murder or kidnapping.

But hmmmm what's missing from your recap -- let's see -- ohhhh all the killings this month that egged on the reaction. Go back and read the first paragraph of post # 1:

So.... the attack on the Israeli soldiers was not exactly unprovoked, now, was it ?

and the same could be said defending israel too. ####### for tat for years on end. your agenda is quite apparent, you'll do anything to paint israel in a bad light. so quit the astroturfing.

The captured soldier was sitting on a tank aimed at Gaza, after days of deadly attacks that killed 22 Palestinians. Sounds like he'd be a legitimate military target to resistance fighters.

again, incorrect. he's not a legitimate military target for resistance fighters, as what you term resistance fighters are actually unlawful combatants. don't try to mix apples and oranges by giving those you show unbridled preference legitimacy while completely ignoring the fact that your "freedom fighters" are commiting outright murder.

According to the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory, collective punishment is a war crime.

you're absolutely right. collective punishment is a crime. Article 32. A protected person/s shall not have anything done to them of such a character as to cause physical suffering or extermination ... the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishments, mutilation and medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical treatment.

the question remains if cutting off electricity meets such definition above

i find it rather interesting that you carry on about the rights of this and that while completely ignoring some 18 year old shot and dumped in a grave, along with some young kid facing the same.

Being a member of Hamas does not automatically make you an elected "representative of the Palestinian people."

tell that to hamas

I don't condone kidnappings of civilians. However, settlers aren't exactly innocent bystanders. Illegal Israeli settlers have been rampaging through the West Bank for the last 30 years, killing, maiming, appropriating land and homes, destroying Palestinian farmland and orchards, and generally terrorizing the Palestinian population with impunity. They are heavily armed by the Israeli government, protected by the Israeli army, and almost never arrested or tried for their crimes. The illegal settlements are funded by the Israeli government, and the settlers are given all sorts of "perks" like free rent, free electricity and water, etc. to move there.

If Israel wants to keep their citizens safe, they ought to stop encouraging these criminals to murder, steal and squat on other people's land.

And as it turns out, he wasn't "butchered in front of TV cameras," but shot to death and dumped in a grave.

so by your definition, any settler can be executed in the above manner. all you've done is highlight what israel has done, but completely ignored anything the palestinians have done.

from what i've found, the west bank was captured during the 6 day war. so on one hand you are saying israel does not have claim to it due to it being the spoils of war, yet on the other you advocate war to take it back.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

the question remains if cutting off electricity meets such definition above

Demolishing the basic infrastructure of the region I think does qualify as 'collective' punishment. The lack of power affects not only individuals and families, but hospitals and just as importantly basic sanitation.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

the question remains if cutting off electricity meets such definition above

Demolishing the basic infrastructure of the region I think does qualify as 'collective' punishment. The lack of power affects not only individuals and families, but hospitals and just as importantly basic sanitation.

When I was in Navy boot camp they would often punish everyone for a one persons mistake. Sometimes the lone offender was exempt from the punishment. It worked like a charm. Though I hated it at the time.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

the question remains if cutting off electricity meets such definition above

Demolishing the basic infrastructure of the region I think does qualify as 'collective' punishment. The lack of power affects not only individuals and families, but hospitals and just as importantly basic sanitation.

i just find it amazing that what is posted here is consistently anti-israeli. israel is being bombed but for some reason that's not newsworthy.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

the question remains if cutting off electricity meets such definition above

Demolishing the basic infrastructure of the region I think does qualify as 'collective' punishment. The lack of power affects not only individuals and families, but hospitals and just as importantly basic sanitation.

i just find it amazing that what is posted here is consistently anti-israeli. israel is being bombed but for some reason that's not newsworthy.

Rockets are fired on Israel for the sole purpose of terror. It would be celebrated as a holiday in Palestine if one of these rockets would hit a bus full of Israeli children.