traffic citation question

[warlord 73]

My decision to disclose the information was partially based on our history with USCIS. If they denied my mother-in-law's extension of stay based on a minor technicality, they can do the same with an N-400. All it takes is one officer having a bad day who decides they want to screw you because they found something small in your background check that you didn't disclose.

And the wonderful thing about the US system is you can always appeal if something like that happens. It's not cut and dry where they say you are denied and you are done. You can appeal the process.

The only cases I've heard of anyone having an issue with simple traffic tickets is that they had numerous other inconsistancies in their application and other issues. They were then told to get proof of payment. There simple, they now have to go through the leg work getting the ticket. Most cases you will not see that.

And once again the form states in Q8 that if a traffic violation is under $500 and not DUI you do not need to submit documentation and with the N-400 being the document it means you do not have to submit those on the N-400. If it was otherwise it would state you need to state them on the document but you do not need to bring evidence to the interview.

I don't know know what more to say. If you want to do it then it's up to you. I'm just glad I researched it myself and didn't rely on responses on the boards of one person's opinion to another. I have stated from the start to call the USCIS and get it from them first hand to back up what is already shown in writting on http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf (Q8 under important, pg 8, pdf pg 11/58).

Don't know how much more clearer it could be to be honest...

[warlord 73]

Won't let it edit my previous post. This is what I think is confusing people in regards to the N-400.

Edit: I think people are confusing Document with evidence. The N-400 is the document you are submitting. You are documenting your information into the document which will be submitted to the USCIS. At the interview, you can choose to bring evidence to support what you documented in the N-400 document.

The wording of not needing to sumbit documentation is getting confused with not needing to submit evidence at the interview and thinking you still need to submit documentation of those traffic tickets. The form once again, states clearly you do not have to submit documentation of those types of tickets.

[jsnearline 2]

Ok. Now you're just making stuff up out of thin air. Here's how documentation is defined in the dictionary:

doc·u·men·ta·tion

Pronunciation:\-mən-ˈtā-shən, -ˌmen-\

Function:noun

Date:1884

1: the act or an instance of furnishing or authenticating with documents

2 a: the provision of documents in substantiation ; also : documentary evidence b (1): the use of historical documents (2): conformity to historical or objective facts (3): the provision of footnotes, appendices, or addenda referring to or containing documentary evidence

3: information science

4: the usually printed instructions, comments, and information for using a particular piece or system of computer software or hardware

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/documentation

certain sections bolded for emphasis.

[lucyrich 20]

And once again the form states in Q8 that if a traffic violation is under $500 and not DUI you do not need to submit documentation

The form says no such thing. The form is here: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-400.pdf Search it for "traffic" or "500", and you won't find them.

The M-476 has some relevant info, though.

The “Application for Naturalization” (Form N-400) asks several questions about crimes. You should report all offenses that you have committed including any that have been expunged (removed from your record) and any that happened before your 18th birthday. If you do not tell USCIS about these offenses and we find out about them, you may be denied naturalization (even if the original offense was not a crime for which your case would have been denied).

If you have been arrested or convicted of a crime, you must send a certified copy of the arrest report, court disposition, sentencing, and any other relevant documents, including any countervailing evidence concerning the circumstances of your arrest and/or conviction that you would like USCIS to consider. Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

The fact that the M-476 gives you a free pass on getting court documentation was exactly my point when I said there was no downside to disclosing them. The M-476's exclusion of the sub-500 tickets is in the context of the paragraph where it says you ordinarily have to submit court documentation of the disposition of your tickets. I'm not sure if you're confusing the issue of disclosure with the issue of submitting documentation or what. The form asks you to disclose ALL citations, even minor ones. And the M-476 backs this up. But it says you don't have to submit any court documentation of them if they're under $500.

But you have repeatedly said that you didn't disclose them, and by not disclosing them, you proudly saved yourself the effort of having to dig up documentation. But everyone who actually read the M-476 agrees you wouldn't have had to dig up any documentation no matter what.

If you read the M-476, it says you have to disclose everything, but you get a free pass for digging up court documentation on sub-$500 fines. You seem to distort this into saying that you don't have to disclose sub-$500 tickets, and then further distort it into saying that if somebody DID disclose a sub-$500 ticket, they would have to provide documentation of it. That simply is not what the M-476 says.

I know I won't convince you, and that's OK. I'm just pointing this out for others who come across the thread.

[MsAnn 0]

lucyrich,

Thank you for explaining. It was annoying me that some people think "do not need to submit documentation" equals the exact same thing as "do not need to DISCLOSE". They mean completely different things

IMO, the instructions in the Guide say that yes, they want to know about traffic tickets, they just don't need any paperwork on them.

My guess is they want all tickets disclosed so that at the interview they can DOUBLE CHECK (by asking you) whether they were alcohol related or something more serious than a simple ticket. I know it doesn't look this way, but they want even these silly things disclosed as not to be confusing, lol. They don't want to say, "no need to disclose...." because some people may assume the "no need to disclose...." pertains to THEM when it doesn't.

[jsnearline 2]

Well said lucyrich.

[wifey246 0]

Uh-oh.. I didn't pay much attention to this question.

I had 2 minor traffic violation before I got my GC but couldnt remember the details.

I requested a DMV report on my DL, and it came up empty.

I decided not to disclose it since I could not provide correct information.

If the IO asks me, I will tell the truth and hope for the best.

[KyngSilva 0]

LOL....I can't believe this went on for this long again. ..sigh

lucyrich did a great job as usual explaining it.