Green Card/Abandoning Status Issues

[miketrombone 0]

Hi there,

I haven't posted on this forum in quite some time. However, this thread has me interested. I don't want to hijack that one, so I decided to start a new one.

My wife has now had her conditional green card since last August. I've recently learned that I have a potential job opportunity in W. Europe. If we decide to move to Europe permanently or semi-permanently, am I right to assume this will mean she'll "abandon" her permanent resident status in the US? If we decide to move back later than 1 year, I also assume we'll have to start again from square one? I can't really see how we'd maintain a residence here in the states if we move all of our assets overseas. Does it make a difference one way or the other that her Green Card is conditional? Am I also correct in thinking you can't lift conditions on a green card while living outside the US?

Thanks for any help

Mike

Edited February 12, 2006 by miketrombone

[dmartmar 1]

Since your wife already has a good for 2 years GC in her hand, she can come and go as she pleases to/from the US. You have nothing to worry about.

[Flames9_RN 358]

I do not belive the info given by the above poster is correct. True one can come and go as they please once they have their green card, BUT they have to stay for a certain amount of time in the USA, and I believe the USA has to be thier main residence. Best of luck in finding hard concrete evidence.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I have found this:

Maintaining Permanent Residence You may lose your permanent residence status if you commit an act that makes you removable from the United States under the law in section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. If you commit such an act, you may be brought before the immigration courts to determine your right to remain a Permanent Resident.

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

* Move to another country intending to live there permanently.

* Remain outside of the US for more than one year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.

* Remain outside of the US for more than two years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the US may be considered, even if it is less than one year.

* Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the US for any period.

* Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/PermRes.htm

Hope it helps

Kezzie

[Jasman0717 9]

I think there is a limit as to how long a GC holder can stay out of the country before the card is considered abandoned. I suggest you check with the USCIS but would indeed think that if you stayed out of the country longer than a year you would have to start the process all over again or do a DCF or CR. Good luck

[meauxna 15]

Hi there,

I haven't posted on this forum in quite some time. However, this thread has me interested. I don't want to hijack that one, so I decided to start a new one.

My wife has now had her conditional green card since last August. I've recently learned that I have a potential job opportunity in W. Europe. If we decide to move to Europe permanently or semi-permanently, am I right to assume this will mean she'll "abandon" her permanent resident status in the US? If we decide to move back later than 1 year, I also assume we'll have to start again from square one? I can't really see how we'd maintain a residence here in the states if we move all of our assets overseas. Does it make a difference one way or the other that her Green Card is conditional? Am I also correct in thinking you can't lift conditions on a green card while living outside the US?

Thanks for any help

Mike

Mike,

Kezzie steered you in the right direction for starters. Abandonment is quite a complicated situation, there are some 'old school' practices that many PRs have employed for years which no longer fly, but people will be only to happy to tell you that the PR only has to come to the US once per year to preserve her status (not true).

If you move to Europe, you're not necessarily closing up shop in the US; I maintained my domicile and primary residence in the US while being abroad for a couple of years.

Abandonment is *very fact specific*, so what applies to someone else may not apply to you.

The PR can take out a re-entry permit as *one* measure to preserve status.

Follow the link Kezzie provided and find the Instructions for I-751 and filing from overseas (yes, you can do that).

The Consulate in the country you are staying in will be a resource to you as well. There is such a thing as a Returning Resident's visa, and of course, if it's many years later and you know you have lost status, you can always file a quick DCF abroad.

The job abroad is not a deal-killer for her status, but you will want to do some prep ahead of time if and when it becomes more serious.

I guess the bottom line is that *nothing* is "permanent" (move, status, etc).

[miketrombone 0]

Mike,

Kezzie steered you in the right direction for starters. Abandonment is quite a complicated situation, there are some 'old school' practices that many PRs have employed for years which no longer fly, but people will be only to happy to tell you that the PR only has to come to the US once per year to preserve her status (not true).

If you move to Europe, you're not necessarily closing up shop in the US; I maintained my domicile and primary residence in the US while being abroad for a couple of years.

Abandonment is *very fact specific*, so what applies to someone else may not apply to you.

The PR can take out a re-entry permit as *one* measure to preserve status.

Follow the link Kezzie provided and find the Instructions for I-751 and filing from overseas (yes, you can do that).

The Consulate in the country you are staying in will be a resource to you as well. There is such a thing as a Returning Resident's visa, and of course, if it's many years later and you know you have lost status, you can always file a quick DCF abroad.

The job abroad is not a deal-killer for her status, but you will want to do some prep ahead of time if and when it becomes more serious.

I guess the bottom line is that *nothing* is "permanent" (move, status, etc).

Hi Meauxna,

Thanks very much for your reply. I checked online at the US consulate in Denmark and they do offer DCF, so that is somewhat of a relief. Do you (or anyone else) know what constitutes maintaining a domicile in the USA? Say, if I put down on my change of address notification my parent's address when/if we move, and have a bank account there for when we do business in the States, and return once or twice a year, will that be enough in your experience abroad to retain status for a period of less than 2 years?

I know there are no absolutes, I just want to get a sense of what it will take to retain status. All in all, it doesn't seem like filing for DCF is that big a deal, compared to what we've been through already. I just don't want to get over to Europe, have us both hate it, and then be stuck there for many months waiting to return.

[meauxna 15]

Hi Meauxna,

Thanks very much for your reply. I checked online at the US consulate in Denmark and they do offer DCF, so that is somewhat of a relief. Do you (or anyone else) know what constitutes maintaining a domicile in the USA? Say, if I put down on my change of address notification my parent's address when/if we move, and have a bank account there for when we do business in the States, and return once or twice a year, will that be enough in your experience abroad to retain status for a period of less than 2 years?

I know there are no absolutes, I just want to get a sense of what it will take to retain status. All in all, it doesn't seem like filing for DCF is that big a deal, compared to what we've been through already. I just don't want to get over to Europe, have us both hate it, and then be stuck there for many months waiting to return.

hi Mike, glad it helped.

Just an FYI, if the USC is living abroad, the US Consulate there will *always* take their case for a "DCF" case. The confusion arises around which Consulates will accept an I-130 if the USC does *not* live there normally. (and for the nitpickers, me included, the Consulate must be an immigrant visa issuing post and often the petition goes to a USCIS Field Office in or near the Embassy--the end result is the same--an approved I-130 filed abroad)

Maintaining domicile is sort of subjective; I don't want to tell you 'oh, do these 3 things and you're golden' because it varies for each person. However, there are some links I've collected on the topic that you can read and draw your own conclusions. Voting, banking, tax filing, mail delivery--these are all things that factor in.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums2/index.php?showtopic=63474

http://www.visajourney.com/forums2/index.php?showtopic=73734

This is a link to search the old posts; you should be able to find more if you look, but I think I gathered the best: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...Search&mode=adv

The attorney who posts at britishexpats.com as Folinskyinla says he is one of the few people in the US who specialize in 'abandonment'. Sometimes you can draw him out to give general guidelines.

Do not forget the I-131; read up on the ReEntry Permit use of that form.

If you are genuinely gone so long that you feel youi can't make a case, look into the Returning Residents visa.

If all else fails and it's easier to just DCF, it really only takes a matter of a few weeks in Denmark. Take all your case files with you for reference and you'll find the paperwork is very easy to complete. And, it might never come down to that

Fingers crossed that the offer goes the way you want!

[miri 0]

Follow the link Kezzie provided and find the Instructions for I-751 and filing from overseas (yes, you can do that).

I may well be in the same situation as miketrombone in the coming months. My husband and I are considering moving to Europe for a while, to be closer to my family, but the problem is that the conditions on my PR are due to be lifted in May 2007 (we will have been married for over 3 years by then). You say it's possible to file the I-751 from overseas -- where can I find out more information about this? We've been through so much as far as immigration is concerned, not to mention the financial expense, so we're very worried that moving will screw everything up.

Advice is gratefully appreciated!

[meauxna 15]

Follow the link Kezzie provided and find the Instructions for I-751 and filing from overseas (yes, you can do that).

I may well be in the same situation as miketrombone in the coming months. My husband and I are considering moving to Europe for a while, to be closer to my family, but the problem is that the conditions on my PR are due to be lifted in May 2007 (we will have been married for over 3 years by then). You say it's possible to file the I-751 from overseas -- where can I find out more information about this? We've been through so much as far as immigration is concerned, not to mention the financial expense, so we're very worried that moving will screw everything up.

Advice is gratefully appreciated!

The link is provided in this thread or you can go to uscis.gov and use the "How Do I" section to find the FAQs.

btw, it's called 'Removal' of conditions, not lifting.. that might make it easier to find info. I wish Ewok would fix the name of this forum!

[miri 0]

Thanks meauxna! I followed the link and the information provided is very helpful. The thing that concerns me is that the references to filing the I-751 from overseas pertain to military personnel or people employed by the US government only. I suspect it might be "phone a lawyer" time

Why does the US government have to give people going about immigration the legal way such a hard time?

[dmartmar 1]

Why does the US government have to give people going about immigration the legal way such a hard time?

Because in the majority of cases, either most people, if not all, go about it in an illegal way. Remember the USCIS assumes immigrant intent by all immigrants, whether true or not.

You shouldn't point your fingers at or fully blame the US Gov't for making things hard. Instead, you should point them at and blame the thousands of immigrants who intentionally try to deceive, scam and circumvent US Immigration laws and USCs on a daily basis with no regards, respect or consideration for any of them whatsoever.

Edited February 16, 2006 by dmartmar

[Nikita2Charles 32]

I would make an infopass appt and discuss the matter with an uscis official there.

If it's possible you and your wife can fly back to the states every 6 months, as such you can still meet the residency requirement, not breaking any laws, the only problem when your wife is ready to fill for citizenship she has to state the time she spent overseas as such her requirement time maybe longer.

not a lawyer just my viewpoint

[jula 0]

hi there,

My husband's job took us to Europe while I was CPR. We filed I-751 while abroad by mailing the required documents to USCIS. It was approved without the interview, had to come to the US to initiate a new card (fingerprint and photos). I hear nowdays people get new GC without having to go to the local office.

My advice, try to keep your wife's residence status for a year or so (by making trips to the US and/or applying for re-entry permit), until you see how the things are developing in Denmark. (If your life is not about having big house and big cars,and rushing everywhere, chances are you'll love it. I lived there.) Once you know your long term plans, you and your wife can make a decision about her residence status in US.

People at the US embassy in Denmark are very nice and helpful.

[miri 0]

My husband's job took us to Europe while I was CPR. We filed I-751 while abroad by mailing the required documents to USCIS. It was approved without the interview, had to come to the US to initiate a new card (fingerprint and photos). I hear nowdays people get new GC without having to go to the local office.

It's really reassuring to hear other people's stories! On the I-751 form, what did you put down for your "address" and "mailing address"? Did you use a US address for both? Or did you use your European address for your "mailing address"? Thanks