David Duke Arrested in Czech Republic

[jundp 191]

It's really hard to see how you can quote Duke or Hitler out of context....

Nah you can quote Hitler out of context - its quite easy actually.

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

It's true. I will win the death match.

Personally I disagree with censorship whether it happens here or anywhere else. The point I am trying to get across is that I think the Europeans are going about it wrong by censoring.

I guess I just don't see this as true censorship, but that's just my opinion. And it has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with wanting to prevent the type of hatred that destroyed nations.

[Ban Hammer 13,619]

You think that's an example of odious political correctness? I think you have misunderstood the concept Charles.

or maybe you just misunderstood my post

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Eventually, occasionally, a semblance of justice makes an appearance.

How is this justice? Being arrested for sharing your opinion is something that is intollerable. If one wants to deny the horrors of the holocaust or even support the attrocities that occured or support racial pride and seperation, so be it. That makes them a bigot but it doesn't make them a criminal.

Well it does if the 6 year prison term awarded to the New York man who broadcast Hezbollah TV in the US is any indication.

We can certainly promote the idealistic view that societies should protect free speech when it comes to the promotion of fringe ideologies and extremist views, but the practical reality is that this is something that has been systematically chipped away at by laws (most notably post 9/11) that seek to make it easier to secure convictions related to terrorism offences for activities that weren't traditionally considered "criminal".

To be perfectly honest, there's no significant difference between a guy who was found guilty of providing material support to a terrorist group by broadcasting a TV channel Vs. a guy who is detained in a foreign country for "promoting" another kind of extremism, certainly not when that sort of extremism is related to the commission of hate crimes and/or terrorism in that country.

Considering that Hezbollah has actually fired missles recently, killed people, and is still presently an active terroristic threat...there is no comparison to someone denying that murders didn't happened 69 years ago. Especially if this fool is not involved in these murders in the first place. Hell, he wasn't even born yet when this sh*t was going down.

I'm no fan of David Duke or the Nazis, but let's compare apples to cactuses here. There is a significant difference.

No, there's not. Please re-read my post. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to Holocaust Studies in Europe and the current atmosphere. There's no significant difference when you consider that what happened 69 years ago took the lives of at MINIMUM 11 million people...not counting soldiers from all countries involved, and that those ideologies are still being pushed by people like David Duke.

So David Duke today is as much of a threat as Hitler in 1938? I don't believe that.

No but allowing such ideologies to freely spread is exactly what happened in 1928 (not 1938) when Hitler began gaining supporters.

Europe has every right to restrict free speech if they so choose. As an American I don't want to go there here in the USA. I prefer an open exchange of thought, speech, and literature. I do not want my government to restrict thought, speech, and literature in order to shape their view of the reality they want us to buy in to. I want to formulate my own views by having access to opposing viewpoints.

Of course murderers and terrorists must continue to be arrested and prosecuted for committing actual crimes. Aiding our active enemies is not to be tolerated either. In time of war there are and always has been restrictions due to national security.

However, we are not at war with David Duke or the Nazis at this time. In fact, they are probably the least of our worries right now. The USA has bigger fish to fry. Europe probably does too. The core issue here is that the European governments wish to impose their official view of history without any opposing viewpoint. Groovy! I'm glad I'm not a citizen of their countries and it is up to their citizens to decide if this is acceptable or not. As an American I am appalled at any censorship or propagandization of history, but to each their own. Lies don't have a chance in the light of day. Shine a light on it, don't hide from it.

I'm definitely not pro-Nazi or a big fan of David Duke. I just believe the Europeans are going about this the wrong way.

If you dislike the "propagandization of history" why are you defending David Duke's right to do exactly that?

I would suggest that David Duke knew that what he was doing was against the law in the Czech Republic but went ahead and did it anyway. Most people are aware that holocaust denial is illegal in several European countries, just like they should know better than to get drunk in the Middle East. He gets what he deserves.

Where did I ever say that I was defending David Duke or the Nazis? Where did I ever say that Europeans didn't have a legitimate reason to arrest him...in Europe? Where did I ever say I believe in Holocast denial? Where did I ever say I buy into Nazi ideology?

I was defending free speech and free expression as practiced here in the USA. Jeez...some of you folks only believe free speech is for stuff you believe in or fits into your comfort zone. That's a little one way don't you think? Kind of selfish too. What makes what you have to say or believe any more significant than anyone else?

Personally I disagree with censorship whether it happens here or anywhere else. The point I am trying to get across is that I think the Europeans are going about it wrong by censoring.

Well, you seem to be projecting a lot here yourself.

I don't agree with censoring anyone, even holocaust deniers. Like Mark Twain once said, better to be thought of as a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

But David Duke's arrest in the Czech Republic has nothing to do with free speech in the USA and has no bearing on it, so I'm not sure whey you are taking the position that anyone here is being "politically correct."

if people are being gleeful about his arrest it probably because he is an a$$shole, not because they don't like free speech.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess I just don't see this as true censorship, but that's just my opinion. And it has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with wanting to prevent the type of hatred that destroyed nations.

It is strange. As I said there's nothing about this that differs significantly from the anti-terrorism laws put in place post-9/11, especially if we accept the idea that in Europe - neo-fascism is regarded in much the same way to islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

[jundp 191]

True.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Kinda makes it dishonest to sneer at Europe for its handling of free speech issues when much the same is going on in this country, even if arresting people and handing down prison sentences are justified under the dubious umbrella of "aiding the enemy in war time".

There's no real difference between the two.

Free speech has never been completely without limit or unconditional.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Private Pike

[fozzie 41]

Kinda makes it dishonest to sneer at Europe for its handling of free speech issues when much the same is going on in this country, even if arresting people and handing down prison sentences are justified under the dubious umbrella of "aiding the enemy in war time".

There's no real difference between the two.

Free speech has never been completely without limit or unconditional.

Especially when it takes on a tone that is intended to incite hatred and violence.

[rooster 1]

It's really hard to see how you can quote Duke or Hitler out of context....

Nah you can quote Hitler out of context - its quite easy actually.

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

I brought the popcorn, who has the beer. Nothing like beer and popcorn for a death match.

[Danno 1,228]

I would suggest that David Duke knew that what he was doing was against the law in the Czech Republic but went ahead and did it anyway. Most people are aware that holocaust denial is illegal in several European countries, just like they should know better than to get drunk in the Middle East. He gets what he deserves.

Well I would have to agree with most that, when we go to foreign countries, we should do so knowing their idea of rights can be very different than ours and if you break their laws... be ready to pay.

I recall all the folks crying how "unfair and inhumane" it is when one of our folks does something which lands him/her a good caning.

[jundp 191]

It's really hard to see how you can quote Duke or Hitler out of context....

Nah you can quote Hitler out of context - its quite easy actually.

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

I brought the popcorn, who has the beer. Nothing like beer and popcorn for a death match.

I think Pike chickened out. He knew he was no match for me.

I would suggest that David Duke knew that what he was doing was against the law in the Czech Republic but went ahead and did it anyway. Most people are aware that holocaust denial is illegal in several European countries, just like they should know better than to get drunk in the Middle East. He gets what he deserves.

Well I would have to agree with most that, when we go to foreign countries, we should do so knowing their idea of rights can be very different than ours and if you break their laws... be ready to pay.

I recall all the folks crying how "unfair and inhumane" it is when one of our folks does something which lands him/her a good caning.

Ok, but not knowing that inciting hatred and denying the Holocaust is on a whole different level from not knowing that graffiti will lead to a caning...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

I brought the popcorn, who has the beer. Nothing like beer and popcorn for a death match.

I think Pike chickened out. He knew he was no match for me.

For you, jundp:

[jundp 191]

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

I brought the popcorn, who has the beer. Nothing like beer and popcorn for a death match.

I think Pike chickened out. He knew he was no match for me.

For you, jundp:

Thank you, sir.

[HannahP 119]

Well, you seem to be projecting a lot here yourself.

I don't agree with censoring anyone, even holocaust deniers. Like Mark Twain once said, better to be thought of as a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

But David Duke's arrest in the Czech Republic has nothing to do with free speech in the USA and has no bearing on it, so I'm not sure whey you are taking the position that anyone here is being "politically correct."

if people are being gleeful about his arrest it probably because he is an a$$shole, not because they don't like free speech.

Wow, you mean that there are muslim holocaust deniers on this forum?

[pedroh 21]

Kinda makes it dishonest to sneer at Europe for its handling of free speech issues when much the same is going on in this country, even if arresting people and handing down prison sentences are justified under the dubious umbrella of "aiding the enemy in war time".

There's no real difference between the two.

Free speech has never been completely without limit or unconditional.

Especially when it takes on a tone that is intended to incite hatred and violence.

aye

[Danno 1,228]

It's really hard to see how you can quote Duke or Hitler out of context....

Nah you can quote Hitler out of context - its quite easy actually.

I suggest you two resolve your intellectual differences with a good ol fashioned death match.

My money's on jundp.

I brought the popcorn, who has the beer. Nothing like beer and popcorn for a death match.

I think Pike chickened out. He knew he was no match for me.

I would suggest that David Duke knew that what he was doing was against the law in the Czech Republic but went ahead and did it anyway. Most people are aware that holocaust denial is illegal in several European countries, just like they should know better than to get drunk in the Middle East. He gets what he deserves.

Well I would have to agree with most that, when we go to foreign countries, we should do so knowing their idea of rights can be very different than ours and if you break their laws... be ready to pay.

I recall all the folks crying how "unfair and inhumane" it is when one of our folks does something which lands him/her a good caning.

Ok, but not knowing that inciting hatred and denying the Holocaust is on a whole different level from not knowing that graffiti will lead to a caning...

I can't agree, while they are different crimes the base principle is the same; you are not in America, don't expect American style law or justice.