He Was For It Before He Was Against It

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I want you think back. Way back. So far back, you might have trouble remembering it. It was, after all, more than a year ago. Way back in those heady days of our youth, there was a presidential campaign going on. And one candidate had a plan for saving the planet. This Earth Day, it pays to go back and look at that plan, which was originally printed in the Financial Times on March 18, 2008:

International responsibility also means preserving our common home. The risks of global warming have no borders. Americans and Europeans need to get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand over a much-diminished world to our grandchildren. We need to reinvigorate the US-European partnership on climate change where we have so many common interests at stake. The US and Europe must lead together to encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.

I have introduced legislation that would require a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, but that is just a start. We need a successor to Kyoto, a cap-and-trade system that delivers the necessary environmental impact in an economically responsible manner. New technologies hold great promise. We need to unleash the power and innovation of the marketplace in order to meet our environmental challenges. Right now safe, climate-friendly nuclear energy is a critical way both to improve the quality of our air and to reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources.

So, to recap, US-European partnership on reducing emissions, a new international treaty, new technology, nuclear power, and cap and trade. I'm not a big fan of the nuclear part -- mostly because it's not really clean and it's stupid-expensive -- but the rest sounds good, right?

This plan to save the world was put forward by John McCain. But that was a long, long time ago -- going on 400 days ago now -- and McCain's saying different things about cap and trade now. Why? Because he's a Republican. Republicans now define what they stand for as "everything Democrats want is wrong." So McCain -- a good little mavericky GOP footsoldier -- jumped right on that bandwagon. He put cap and trade to the rigorous test of seeing if dems liked it and determined that it was just the worst thing ever. Where cap and trade was once a common sense solution to global warming that relied on markets to reduce emission, CaT is now a commie plot to ruin corporations and raise revenues for the federal government. Democrats are for it, President Obama's for it, so it must be bad. Good Republicans are guided by their jerking knees.

Any doubt that McCain had done a complete 180 on cap and trade was dispelled yesterday, when RealClearPolitics.com ran the headline, "McCain Slams 'Cap And Tax' Energy Plan."

As Congress opens hearings on new energy policies, John McCain said President Obama is pursuing a strategy that is a "revenue generator for the federal government," not a solution to the threat of climate change.

[...]

"At this time of economic hardship, it is beyond irresponsible to further raise costs of operation for our country's businesses," he said at an energy forum hosted by the Reform Institute in Washington today. "I still believe that it is the time to address this critical domestic and international issue. But my vision for a cap and trade system is mechanism to lower greenhouse gases in our hemisphere, not as a revenue generator for the federal government."

I know what you're thinking, "He says right there he's for his 'vision of cap and trade.' He's just got a problem with the Democrats' version." Here's the thing, John McCain doesn't really have any idea what the hell cap and trade actually is. This was a problem during the campaign -- he said he was for cap and trade, only without that whole "cap" part.

Now would probably be a good time to explain how cap and trade works. The government sets a limit on how much carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases a plant or shop or whatever can emit. But you can buy what would basically be an allowance to exceed that by going to a facility that's below their cap or some sort of carbon mitigation service and buying credits. Now you can pollute more, because you've added the other facilities deficit to your polluting capacity. Initially, these credits would be auctioned by the government. Afterward, the credits would be traded in an open market, with more credits issued as needed -- i.e., as total emissions go down and polluting capacity increases.

McCain's "vision of cap and trade" is trade and no cap. Companies would basically buy pollution from each other -- if they wanted to, because it'd be a nice thing to do. And we all know that global corporations are all about being nice. If they make a little money, that's great, but all they're really interested in is making the world a better place.

McCain made his misunderstanding of the entire mechanism of cap and trade clear at a June 2008 press conference, where he was asked, "The European Union has set mandatory targets on renewable energy. Is that something you would consider in a McCain administration?"

"Sure. I believe in the cap-and-trade system, as you know," he answered. "I would not at this time make those -- impose a mandatory cap at this time. But I do believe that we have to establish targets for reductions of greenhouse gas emissions over time, and I think those can be met."

Writing about it at the time, I posted, "Let me see if I've got this straight, McCain's for cap and trade -- so long as we get rid of that whole 'cap' part. Without a mandatory cap on emissions, there's no reason for anyone to do any carbon trading. It'd be a completely profit-free market, which doesn't make it extremely attractive for investors. Who's going to buy pollution?"

In fact, in an interview with Greenwire, McCain made his misunderstanding of cap and trade clear, saying -- with his trademark testiness -- "It's not quote mandatory caps. It's cap-and-trade, OK. It's not mandatory caps to start with. It's cap-and-trade. That's very different. OK, because that's a gradual reduction in greenhouse-gas emissions. So please portray it as cap-and-trade. That's the way I call it."

"The way you call it" isn't exactly right, John. You don't get to run around redefining terms to your liking. Especially in cases like this, where the redefinition doesn't make any damned sense and clearly wouldn't work. What you're calling "cap and trade" isn't actually cap and trade at all, it's just pollute, trade, or not trade as you see fit.

Sound familiar? Yeah, that's because it's pretty much what we have now. Anyone can buy carbon credits. You can resell them if you want. But there's no real market for them because you're not required to have them. Since companies don't actually need them, guess what? They don't buy them. McCain might as well be selling leprechaun farts -- McCain's carbon market would trade in something that has no value because it isn't actually real.

But the core idea behind all of this is that Democrats are wrong -- always. If they propose one thiing, as a good Republican, McCain is required to advocate for the opposite. It doesn't have to make any sense, it doesn't have to have a hope in hell of ever working, it just has to be different.

That's what being a maverick is all about -- doing exactly what the rest of your party does. If this seems indistinguishable from your typical partisan ####, then that's what "maverick" must mean.

Because that's the way McCain calls it.

-Wisco

http://griperblade.blogspot.com/2009/04/he...against-it.html

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[one...two...tree 2,762]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Riiiight. As if McCain carries no political clout as a senior Senator of the Republican Party.

But let us not get lost as to what this is all about - the Party of Do Nothings will go against anything the Democrats support, even if it was something like Cap and Trade that many prominent Republicans have supported before. Partisan politics at its finest...tsk, tsk.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Riiiight. As if McCain carries no political clout as a senior Senator of the Republican Party.

But let us not get lost as to what this is all about - the Party of Do Nothings will go against anything the Democrats support, even if it was something like Cap and Trade that many prominent Republicans have supported before. Partisan politics at its finest...tsk, tsk.

Why do you need Republicans to pass your agenda? You have control of the Presidency, and both houses of Congress. Like I said, why are you continuing to beat a dead animal? You have twelve months or so left, before the next election cycle begins, and the current government gets lost in the backwash. It only takes a majority to pass in the House, and if the Majority wants to change the Senate rules, it only takes a majority to do that as well.

So, gitter done!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Riiiight. As if McCain carries no political clout as a senior Senator of the Republican Party.

But let us not get lost as to what this is all about - the Party of Do Nothings will go against anything the Democrats support, even if it was something like Cap and Trade that many prominent Republicans have supported before. Partisan politics at its finest...tsk, tsk.

Why do you need Republicans to pass your agenda? You have control of the Presidency, and both houses of Congress. Like I said, why are you continuing to beat a dead animal? You have twelve months or so left, before the next election cycle begins, and the current government gets lost in the backwash. It only takes a majority to pass in the House, and if the Majority wants to change the Senate rules, it only takes a majority to do that as well.

So, gitter done!

Because in the court of public opinion, the Rethuglicans are doing their very best to misinform the American voters as to what the Cap and Trade will do to their income. They don't want to argue on the merits of the bill because they'll lose...so they resort to gross distortions and outright lies in hopes of clawing their way back into power...as if power in Washington is the only reason why they are in office. Shameful, really.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Riiiight. As if McCain carries no political clout as a senior Senator of the Republican Party.

But let us not get lost as to what this is all about - the Party of Do Nothings will go against anything the Democrats support, even if it was something like Cap and Trade that many prominent Republicans have supported before. Partisan politics at its finest...tsk, tsk.

Why do you need Republicans to pass your agenda? You have control of the Presidency, and both houses of Congress. Like I said, why are you continuing to beat a dead animal? You have twelve months or so left, before the next election cycle begins, and the current government gets lost in the backwash. It only takes a majority to pass in the House, and if the Majority wants to change the Senate rules, it only takes a majority to do that as well.

So, gitter done!

Because in the court of public opinion, the Rethuglicans are doing their very best to misinform the American voters as to what the Cap and Trade will do to their income. They don't want to argue on the merits of the bill because they'll lose...so they resort to gross distortions and outright lies in hopes of clawing their way back into power...as if power in Washington is the only reason why they are in office. Shameful, really.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

Riiiight. As if McCain carries no political clout as a senior Senator of the Republican Party.

But let us not get lost as to what this is all about - the Party of Do Nothings will go against anything the Democrats support, even if it was something like Cap and Trade that many prominent Republicans have supported before. Partisan politics at its finest...tsk, tsk.

Why do you need Republicans to pass your agenda? You have control of the Presidency, and both houses of Congress. Like I said, why are you continuing to beat a dead animal? You have twelve months or so left, before the next election cycle begins, and the current government gets lost in the backwash. It only takes a majority to pass in the House, and if the Majority wants to change the Senate rules, it only takes a majority to do that as well.

So, gitter done!

Because in the court of public opinion, the Rethuglicans are doing their very best to misinform the American voters as to what the Cap and Trade will do to their income. They don't want to argue on the merits of the bill because they'll lose...so they resort to gross distortions and outright lies in hopes of clawing their way back into power...as if power in Washington is the only reason why they are in office. Shameful, really.

good image!

and the dems are being honest and forthright?

it's a tax on your energy usage. plan on a 100% increase in electric alone in the next 10 years. and for those of us on propane or natural gas, it's another cost added on.

Edited April 25, 2009 by charles!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

No sh!t.

Steven.... you won!!!! Talk about sore winners. How's that voter's remorse coming along?

[GaryC 7]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

No sh!t.

Steven.... you won!!!! Talk about sore winners. How's that voter's remorse coming along?

I think he is experiencing some second thoughts and is looking for justification by making the reps look like the bad guy. No other reason I can think of for the non stop GOP bashing. You won Steven. The dems don't need the reps for anything. If your right then the reps are even more marginalized at the next election. But I have a feeling he sees the train wreck coming and wants to be able to spread the blame around.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

No sh!t.

Steven.... you won!!!! Talk about sore winners. How's that voter's remorse coming along?

I think he is experiencing some second thoughts and is looking for justification by making the reps look like the bad guy. No other reason I can think of for the non stop GOP bashing. You won Steven. The dems don't need the reps for anything. If your right then the reps are even more marginalized at the next election. But I have a feeling he sees the train wreck coming and wants to be able to spread the blame around.

No, Gary. I've been watching the hack job that Republicans like Boehner are doing in trying to scare the American public away from supporting Cap and Trade. Gingrich, for example, claims he's against the current Cap and Trade proposal because he says it costs too much...and he sites his source - an MIT study, yet the very professor who conducted that study has said that the Republicans' claim of the costs is a gross misrepresentation of the study.

So, are the Republicans who are against this Cap and Trade proposal because of it's provisions - which can be worked out through bipartisanship, or are they taking a position of being against any Cap and Trade? And if it's the former, then why aren't coming up with their own Cap and Trade proposal? In other words....they need to put up or shut up.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[GaryC 7]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

No sh!t.

Steven.... you won!!!! Talk about sore winners. How's that voter's remorse coming along?

I think he is experiencing some second thoughts and is looking for justification by making the reps look like the bad guy. No other reason I can think of for the non stop GOP bashing. You won Steven. The dems don't need the reps for anything. If your right then the reps are even more marginalized at the next election. But I have a feeling he sees the train wreck coming and wants to be able to spread the blame around.

No, Gary. I've been watching the hack job that Republicans like Boehner are doing in trying to scare the American public away from supporting Cap and Trade. Gingrich, for example, claims he's against the current Cap and Trade proposal because he says it costs too much...and he sites his source - an MIT study, yet the very professor who conducted that study has said that the Republicans' claim of the costs is a gross misrepresentation of the study.

So, are the Republicans who are against this Cap and Trade proposal because of it's provisions - which can be worked out through bipartisanship, or are they taking a position of being against any Cap and Trade? And if it's the former, then why aren't coming up with their own Cap and Trade proposal? In other words....they need to put up or shut up.

That does not explain your dozens of GOP hatchet posts every week. So which is it, you want someone to take some of the blame when things go wrong or are you just rubbing it in? BTW, cap and trade in any form is a tax increase to the poor and middle class. There is no two ways around that.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

John who?

I thought he was never a real Republican. After all, wasn't he was the Democrat's model for bipartisanship?

You can only flog a dead horse for so long.

No sh!t.

Steven.... you won!!!! Talk about sore winners. How's that voter's remorse coming along?

I think he is experiencing some second thoughts and is looking for justification by making the reps look like the bad guy. No other reason I can think of for the non stop GOP bashing. You won Steven. The dems don't need the reps for anything. If your right then the reps are even more marginalized at the next election. But I have a feeling he sees the train wreck coming and wants to be able to spread the blame around.

No, Gary. I've been watching the hack job that Republicans like Boehner are doing in trying to scare the American public away from supporting Cap and Trade. Gingrich, for example, claims he's against the current Cap and Trade proposal because he says it costs too much...and he sites his source - an MIT study, yet the very professor who conducted that study has said that the Republicans' claim of the costs is a gross misrepresentation of the study.

So, are the Republicans who are against this Cap and Trade proposal because of it's provisions - which can be worked out through bipartisanship, or are they taking a position of being against any Cap and Trade? And if it's the former, then why aren't coming up with their own Cap and Trade proposal? In other words....they need to put up or shut up.

That does not explain your dozens of GOP hatchet posts every week. So which is it, you want someone to take some of the blame when things go wrong or are you just rubbing it in? BTW, cap and trade in any form is a tax increase to the poor and middle class. There is no two ways around that.

Well, I'm not going to respond to the allegation that the collection of what I post here in OT amount to nothing but hatchet posts, but staying on topic here - my point here about Cap and Trade, is that it isn't some kind of left wing conspiracy hack that Republican leaders like Boehner and McCain are now pretending it to be. There have been many Republicans who have been in favor of a Cap and Trade policy to reduce carbon emissions. The reason why it is being proposed by Gore and supported by the Obama Administration, is that it is a compromise - a market solution to encourage the reduction of carbon emissions and to spark growth in alternative energies. It's up to the Republicans in Congress to either come up with their own plan or work with the Democrats. Holding their noses to the air only shows that they are content with being the party of Do Nothings, particularly with the amount of support Cap and Trade has had among Republicans prior to the election.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Col. 'Bat' Guano

[Pooky 3,795]

Sore losers, sore winners, everyone's just sore these days.

Republican'ts are sore because they lost and are afraid of being steamrollered by the legislative juggernaut. Dimocrats are sore because things are still going wrong, some old and some new, and GWB isn't there to lay all the blame against any more. And the American public is sore because they're still getting it up the **** from the government and it's only going to get worse.

Same old same old.

And John McCain. Like the OP always used to like to say "a non-issue."

[GaryC 7]

Well, I'm not going to respond to the allegation that the collection of what I post here in OT amount to nothing but hatchet posts, but staying on topic here - my point here about Cap and Trade, is that it isn't some kind of left wing conspiracy hack that Republican leaders like Boehner and McCain are now pretending it to be. There have been many Republicans who have been in favor of a Cap and Trade policy to reduce carbon emissions. The reason why it is being proposed by Gore and supported by the Obama Administration, is that it is a compromise - a market solution to encourage the reduction of carbon emissions and to spark growth in alternative energies. It's up to the Republicans in Congress to either come up with their own plan or work with the Democrats. Holding their noses to the air only shows that they are content with being the party of Do Nothings, particularly with the amount of support Cap and Trade has had among Republicans prior to the election.

Are you kidding? It's clear to everyone that you post everything you can find that makes the GOP look bad. Who are you trying to kid? Look, the dems have absolute control over the government. You don't need the GOP for anything. If they want Cap and Trade then do it. Who cares what the opposition wants unless your looking for cover if it all goes bad. Take some advice from someone who has been there. Step back and look at how others see you. It is getting pretty ridiculous. I am out of the partisan arguments and it feels good. Step into the light Steven.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Are you kidding? It's clear to everyone that you post everything you can find that makes the GOP look bad. Who are you trying to kid? Look, the dems have absolute control over the government. You don't need the GOP for anything. If they want Cap and Trade then do it. Who cares what the opposition wants unless your looking for cover if it all goes bad. Take some advice from someone who has been there. Step back and look at how others see you. It is getting pretty ridiculous. I am out of the partisan arguments and it feels good. Step into the light Steven.

Gary, with all due respect - you're looking at it with your own bias. There are countless threads made here in OT with one bias or another - whether it is negative towards Obama or the Democrats in general. To target me as a lone gunmen is to ignore those threads. Believe it or not, I'd prefer to talk about solutions, but it's hard not to respond to the amount of bitterness and negativity towards our newly elected President.

Now back to Cap and Trade. I'm always up for a good honest argument if anyone wants to argue about the merits of Cap and Trade, but it shouldn't go unnoticed that many of the Republicans in Congress don't want an honest debate about it. They just want to scare the American voters into believing that this is another attempt by the Democrats to tax them into oblivion...which I find utterly absurd given what the Republican Party has done to this country over the last 8 years.