Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics

[babybunny 2]

SZ, for your information, Morocco is considered a moderate Islamic country and old traditions have as much influence in many areas as Islam does. My husband is like Soul's fiancee - he doesn't practice Islam. His family and the community he grew up in love to party and will celebrate anything lavishly. You have no right to judge others for spending their money how they choose and living life to it's fullest. Just because you choose to be religious and live a life of abstinence doesn't make you better than everyone else, it just seems to make you more judgmental and rude. I've tried to speak kindly to you on here and you've verbally slapped me in the face. I see I'm not the only one you're going around slapping.

First of all, honeyblonde, I have lived in Morocco and own a home there; I've forgotten more about the place than you will ever know. And I have every right to post about the law and Islam. I'm not here as a non-Muslim with a non-practicing Muslim husband. You did speak kindly to me, but you also made an assumption about me, which I corrected. There was nothing judgmental about setting the record straight.

I suspect that the only reason I appear rude and judgemental to you is because the answers I give aren't what you want to hear. Fine. Please, if you don't like my answers, please don't read them, but they are geared toward the deen that I and the majority of Moroccans relate to, and I'm not going to relate secular answers or endorse sin when people are talking about tradition and custom in a predominately Muslim country.

From what I've seen in this forum over the past few months those Muslim's who complain so much about others judging them need to take a hard look in the mirror. Many of you come here and horribly judge others in this forum based on what you think they should be living their life like. Grow up! We're all individuals! Not everyone is going to believe how you do.

This is the Middle East and North Africa forum. That area of the world is predominately Muslim, and, WOW!, some of the people here trying to get visas for their spouses will be Muslim, too, with Muslim values - practicing Muslims with the kind of responses that practicing Muslims tend to give. While non-Muslims deserve all due respect, I am not one to apply secular reasoning to acts that are being judged by what is traditional in a Muslim country, one that I know well. If you feel pride in representing the non-Muslim world as an influence who doesn't practice abstinance and wastes money, I'm not stopping you.

I'm sorry that you have a bad attitude toward religious people and consider them to be anything other than judgemental when they post as if the rules of social Christianity, Judaism and Islam have validity. I don't complain about being judged, and I don't spend time worrying about being judged. Anyone who wishes to express their ideas of secularism won't be blasted by me, but I will feel free to express my views as well.

PS - My answer wasn't to you anyway, Liz, and it didn't seem to bother the person to whom it was directed as much as it did you.

very nice response there!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thanks. I'm wondering what practicing Muslims here are expected to do. Are the only "good" Muslims those who give secular answers and never refer to Islam as part of the tradition of Morocco or any other Muslim country? Perhaps what we need is a caveat at the end of each requesting post telling us exactly which group they want to hear from and what kind of answers are acceptable, like: "Non-practicing, We want secular answers only, no judgemental religious responses please." Then, maybe fewer feathers will be ruffled.

[babybunny 2]

Thanks. I'm wondering what practicing Muslims here are expected to do. Are the only "good" Muslims those who give secular answers and never refer to Islam as part of the tradition of Morocco or any other Muslim country? Perhaps what we need is a caveat at the end of each requesting post telling us exactly which group they want to hear from and what kind of answers are acceptable, like: "Non-practicing, We want secular answers only, no judgemental religious responses please." Then, maybe fewer feathers will be ruffled.

yes, thats what is needed.

I would think someone would rather know the 'WHAT IFs" instead of having everyone agree to one

side of the problem. I certainly would like to know all the sides of a coin in any choice I make.

may it be good, bad or ugly. its true when you say things that go against that persons grains

they will not like it. my biggest worry is someone getting in a problem they can not handle.

this process is too hard. why can people make it smooth and we just get along.

[soul_encounter 0]

Liz

I will take time to say goodbye to you privately and thank you for your responses. It is a shame to know there were great people like you here to learn from at one time.

I am not ignorate, Su gente!

NONE of you - were by Goldenhearts side the weekend her heart crushed. none of you. if you never

heard the sound of hearbreak- I promise you would not want to. its the most horrible sound you ever wanna hear!

you know I tried to get the OP to do the right thing. Thats is registar her marriage and stop

playing games with her and hubbys life! thats all. its so easy to BE HONEST. The OP rather take it

the hard way and start practiceing lying. I dont care if NONE of you agree with me, I dont care if

all of you hate me. My statements come from 2 things..1..the pain of the process she has gone through

2... the pain Golden heart from the weekend her heart was broken. dayum me for trying to point her in the

truthful direction!

Honey blonde- hey if you wanna leave BYE!! no one is stopping you. everything you called me and anyone on here a finger is pointing right back at you.

I'm not gonna do it, not even wasting my time

[Dixie_Peach 1]

Liz... i will miss you... and i wish you and Abdel the best... if it is okay, i still have you on messenger... and will give you a holler every so often... *hugs*... you have always offered support and care to me... and i appreciate you...

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Oh wow.

Shon... why do you keep going off about a marriage here ? Soul_encounter has answered you, and made it clear that there was no "Islamic marriage" or papers signed. It was an engagement ceremony that admittedly LOOKS a lot like a wedding, but since there were no vows or contract -- how can you keep insisting it actually WAS a marriage, and that she's somehow "cheating" or "lying" ? You have a point about other cases that did seem to cross the line, but here... just cool your jets...

By the way, Shon is going through one of the most arduous and lengthy ARs ever seen on VJ, so I will give her a break for being under extreme stress.

Liz... sorry to hear you've had enough... we will miss your experience and your level-headed voice of reason. You made some excellent points in your "swan song" post (but I hope it won't be the last we hear from you.) You are a smart and classy lady, and I wish you and Abdel all the happiness in life together !

Now.... I don't think szsz is trying to be judgmental, she's trying to be helpful by just telling it like it is in the context of a Muslim country such as Morocco, and in the context of Islamic attitudes. A lot of ladies here did not have much knowledge or experience involving the Middle East/North Africa or Muslims/Islam before meeting their SOs. Often they don't always understand what is "normal" or "not normal" in these cultures, especially regarding legal and religious issues. Many ladies here do not even speak or read Arabic. I'm not putting anyone down, but all these factors can often lead to misunderstandings and mistaken ideas.

Yes, some of the ladies here are new Muslimahs, and some are learning Arabic , but you can't expect to absorb everything about an entire culture in a couple of short visits, or even in a year or two of a long-distance relationship.

One thing about Muslims -- they often speak what's on their mind without mincing words.

Anyways, I hope no one takes personal offense at what I've said here... I am wishing every single one of you happiness and success in your life.

-MK

[babybunny 2]

Oh wow.

Shon... why do you keep going off about a marriage here ? Soul_encounter has answered you, and made it clear that there was no "Islamic marriage" or papers signed. It was an engagement ceremony that admittedly LOOKS a lot like a wedding, but since there were no vows or contract -- how can you keep insisting it actually WAS a marriage, and that she's somehow "cheating" or "lying" ? You have a point about other cases that did seem to cross the line, but here... just cool your jets...

By the way, Shon is going through one of the most arduous and lengthy ARs ever seen on VJ, so I will give her a break for being under extreme stress.

Liz... sorry to hear you've had enough... we will miss your experience and your level-headed voice of reason. You made some excellent points in your "swan song" post (but I hope it won't be the last we hear from you.) You are a smart and classy lady, and I wish you and Abdel all the happiness in life together !

Now.... I don't think szsz is trying to be judgmental, she's trying to be helpful by just telling it like it is in the context of a Muslim country such as Morocco, and in the context of Islamic attitudes. A lot of ladies here did not have much knowledge or experience involving the Middle East/North Africa or Muslims/Islam before meeting their SOs. Often they don't always understand what is "normal" or "not normal" in these cultures, especially regarding legal and religious issues. Many ladies here do not even speak or read Arabic. I'm not putting anyone down, but all these factors can often lead to misunderstandings and mistaken ideas.

Yes, some of the ladies here are new Muslimahs, and some are learning Arabic , but you can't expect to absorb everything about an entire culture in a couple of short visits, or even in a year or two of a long-distance relationship.

One thing about Muslims -- they often speak what's on their mind without mincing words.

Anyways, I hope no one takes personal offense at what I've said here... I am wishing every single one of you happiness and success in your life.

-MK

you know what. Goldenheart did not have anything signed either.

infact hers was done over the phone. yet - her husband/ fiancee is BANNED!

you all make choices for your life - its on YOU. its weird how like the same people on here

were like " oh golden heart I am so sorry- blah blah " then this poster is about to walk in the

same Poo " you are like oh hide the pics, do this do that ". dayum me for even trying to say

hey BE HONEST. To me when you are not 100% truthful in this process it has away of comming

back at You.

[soul_encounter 0]

Shon,

I do recall reading some of her ordeal. If you had read mine and hers, you can easily see it is different. She did have a religious official orchestrate the "phone wedding" with witnesses for the intent of making their being alone together ok in the eyes of god and their religion and to protect her rights in case she were to become pregnant. I still think she was very wronged because "legal" is what should matter and is what is presented to us in immigration laws addressing what petition to file. I think I clearly stated i had no religious official in attendance and it was neither a religious or legal marriage.

Also, several people did not think I should send the photos or necessarily agree with me. I appreciated any and all views that were expressed with politeness and respect regardless of what point of view they took or whether or not they agreed with mine. You did NOT address me with any manner of respect. In fact, you assumed to make judgements on my character.

Look, this is going nowhere, if you can't see that you were not being helpful you were being rude, judgemental and disrespectful then you never will. And that's ok, you can have whatever opinion and expression of such you desire. I ask just one thing of you, for the sake of helping others reading these posts here understand their journey, if you address one of my posts, or I yours, use a little respect or we can just pass each other by.

Oh wow.

Shon... why do you keep going off about a marriage here ? Soul_encounter has answered you, and made it clear that there was no "Islamic marriage" or papers signed. It was an engagement ceremony that admittedly LOOKS a lot like a wedding, but since there were no vows or contract -- how can you keep insisting it actually WAS a marriage, and that she's somehow "cheating" or "lying" ? You have a point about other cases that did seem to cross the line, but here... just cool your jets...

By the way, Shon is going through one of the most arduous and lengthy ARs ever seen on VJ, so I will give her a break for being under extreme stress.

Thanks for that enlightenment, I am truly sorry to hear of anyone having an unnecessarily hard time with this process. Even a "Smooth" (if there is such a thing) process of this anxiety can make the best of us edgy and paranoid. Good luck Shon, I hope you get relief soon. SE

Edited June 29, 2006 by soul_encounter

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Now.... I don't think szsz is trying to be judgmental, she's trying to be helpful by just telling it like it is in the context of a Muslim country such as Morocco, and in the context of Islamic attitudes. A lot of ladies here did not have much knowledge or experience involving the Middle East/North Africa or Muslims/Islam before meeting their SOs. Often they don't always understand what is "normal" or "not normal" in these cultures, especially regarding legal and religious issues. Many ladies here do not even speak or read Arabic. I'm not putting anyone down, but all these factors can often lead to misunderstandings and mistaken ideas.

Thank you for that. I don't come here to insult people nor to make enemies. I was shocked to see myself called judgemental in a post that was full of judgement. I made it clear that my remarks were not addressed to soul_encounter's situation specifically. I am interested in warning women who don't know the lay of the land against fake marriage and toward doing things in the prescribed manner to get the results they desire. I'm new here and was not aware that the only non-judgemental comments are those that are amoral and/or neutral regarding religion.

Salaam

Edited June 30, 2006 by szsz