Engagement/Wedding Ceremony Pics

[soul_encounter 0]

Ok gals, ya'll who have been here done this, tell me if you used em or not. Before my trip to Morocco, my fiances grandma (who helped raise him and was more of a mother) convinced us to go along with an "engagement ceremony" (being sure here not to call it a wedding) because she is very old (in her 90s) and her and his other family and friends there would not be able to be in the states to take part in our legal ceremony here. She said "I am old, I want to see my son marry before I die, that is my wish." So she planned, orchestrated and paid for an elaborately beautiful 2 day ordeal. A video guy for the entire 2 days, live band, I think 100 or more chickens were sacrificed, my own personal hair and make-up guy and attendant/dressing girls, etc. First night was the henna of course fully dressed out ritual, second night the ceremony complete with 7 dresses. Oh was I ever exhausted, but I know my grandmom was more so, she was there like a general every step of the way giving orders and overseeing and even bellydancing...lol We did exchange rings at the end and yes everything was done as a wedding would be I suppose, however there were no "vows" exchanged, no papers or contracts signed, no government or religious officials in attendance, basically no "legalities". We have over 600 photos total of the ceremonies, some professional and others just from the video and family and friends there snapping shots. We have about 200 of the entire rest of the vacation excluding the ceremonies. Now, I had doubles printed of everything one set for him (well for his grandma mostly, she'll keep them when he comes here) and one for our album here at home. I am working on picking out 100 or so shots of the entire trip that show us laughing,smiling playing, kissing, adoring looks etc for an "interview" album only.

I have heard of others having issues with interview/immigration who filed K1 and the officer calls it fraud because they should have filed K3 even though the marriage was not legal. So, my question is, should I use the ceremony shots at all in our interview album (there are some great ones there) or just leave them out altogether??? Thanks in advance for any help

[JenT 0]

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, USE THESE PHOTOS.

You will be denied if you submit anything that appears to be ceremonial.

Jen

[raymaga 25]

I agree with the previous poster.... DO NOT use any of those photos. Use other photos showing you together from other times.

Why jeopardize your approval in any way?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

There have been a few threads recently about this issue here on VJ and the overwhelming consensus, as articulated by previous posters is, DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY SIMILAR TO A MARRIAGE CEREMONY!

We had probably 20 pictures total for our K-1 interview and another 20 for our AOS interview. Neither interviewer said anything about that being too few.

[Dixie_Peach 1]

i have been told also that because of the muslim culture... not to show photos of ya'll kissing... but, you may want to ask the other ladies...

good luck!

God Bless,

Lynne

[soul_encounter 0]

i have been told also that because of the muslim culture... not to show photos of ya'll kissing... but, you may want to ask the other ladies...

good luck!

God Bless,

Lynne

Wow, overwhelming consensus so far... No ceremony pics, but kissing? Really? Well, I already told ya'll my sweetie is Not your average moroccan muslim male, we did lots of kissing. So, no ceremony shots, possibly no kissing shots, what about the laying in bed afterglow pics, those are really really lovey dovey. Come on now, you guys are eliminating my best photos ...lol j/k Thanks for your help it truly is appreciated. I think the main reason I was kind of wanting to show some of the ceremony pics, was the Huge support from family and friends. I was kissed and hugged by so many people, I'll never remember them all. But you guys are right, i'll stick with the others. Let me know about the kissing thing though

[honeyblonde 0]

Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips.

I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress.

From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage.

Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview.

So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck!

[soul_encounter 0]

Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips.

I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress.

From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage.

Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview.

So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck!

Thanks Liz for adding a different point of view here. I tried to look up your timeline but it said no link found? Your pics are beautiful btw. I had to laugh remembering that date and milk thing (I hate milk) but I endured. Really this whole thing can be so darn confusing. I mean, granted, there are fraud green card marriages coming from morocco, no dispute there, and the consulate has to do their job. The thing that gets me, is here we have a genuine relationship, lots of love and support from family and friends. Neither of us think traditionally when it comes to the environment we were raised in, and both are outspoken in what we think is wrong with the world today and how stupid people and societal stigmas can be. He can't stand to hear of arranged marriages or marriages not for love, he thinks all people should have a right to choose in religion and that God loves the person not the religion, He also believes God sees the heart of a person and not the routine acts of devotion (like getting drunk on saturday and going to church on sunday) He believes in physical expressions of emotions and loved holding me closely everywhere we went and kissing every 5 minutes. I agree with him on all of the above and think our society is way too accustomed to mistaking physical attraction for love. That's Probably one of the main reasons I took the time to get to know him and give him a chance. Before we met online, I was hit on daily by men. I've always had male admirers and men attracted to me for my looks, but very few of them actually got to know the heart of me or when they did, they wanted to change me and mold me into their vision of what they wanted. When he saw my profile, there was one picture of me in it, no location, age or other "personal" info listed just a Lot of interests, quotes, poetry etc. I think a lot of women nowadays turn to internet romance for just that reason, I did. I mean after finding myself 30 and single after being married all of my adult life, dating was a scary nightmare. The bars and clubs aren't safe and who wants what is there, and meeting someone who isn't just after your body or a pretty armside aint easy. The internet gives you space and time to know someone at a deeper level before physical chemistry takes over. He messaged me regarding a quote listed in my profile by a philosopher he knew, and it grew from there. He had no idea how old I was or where I was from, and when he first asked me of my race, he assumed I was asian. We chatted for weeks, no webcams (I refused, wasn't interested in another male admiring my looks) just really getting to know each other as friends. He was happy with what he saw eventually...lol But that's another story. One year from the day we started talking, we met in person, no rush there either, we both wanted to be sure.

Point is, this is who we are, me and my sweetie... all the kissing, holding, lovey dovey, closeness with family... All of it is who we are, and wanting to celebrate our decision to commit with his family, especially his grandma who once he comes here, he may never see alive again at her age, is a part of us.

The thing that really doesn't settle well with me, is that to prevent being seen as fraudulant general consensus seems to think we should hide parts of ourselves. Yes, there seems to be good reasonings for this line of thought based upon consular experiences... But how screwed up is it, that this embassy has made us fear that if we are open and honest about who and what we are, they will think it a fraud? Something just aint right with that scenario.

[JenT 0]

Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips.

I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress.

From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage.

Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview.

So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck!

Thanks Liz for adding a different point of view here. I tried to look up your timeline but it said no link found? Your pics are beautiful btw. I had to laugh remembering that date and milk thing (I hate milk) but I endured. Really this whole thing can be so darn confusing. I mean, granted, there are fraud green card marriages coming from morocco, no dispute there, and the consulate has to do their job. The thing that gets me, is here we have a genuine relationship, lots of love and support from family and friends. Neither of us think traditionally when it comes to the environment we were raised in, and both are outspoken in what we think is wrong with the world today and how stupid people and societal stigmas can be. He can't stand to hear of arranged marriages or marriages not for love, he thinks all people should have a right to choose in religion and that God loves the person not the religion, He also believes God sees the heart of a person and not the routine acts of devotion (like getting drunk on saturday and going to church on sunday) He believes in physical expressions of emotions and loved holding me closely everywhere we went and kissing every 5 minutes. I agree with him on all of the above and think our society is way too accustomed to mistaking physical attraction for love. That's Probably one of the main reasons I took the time to get to know him and give him a chance. Before we met online, I was hit on daily by men. I've always had male admirers and men attracted to me for my looks, but very few of them actually got to know the heart of me or when they did, they wanted to change me and mold me into their vision of what they wanted. When he saw my profile, there was one picture of me in it, no location, age or other "personal" info listed just a Lot of interests, quotes, poetry etc. I think a lot of women nowadays turn to internet romance for just that reason, I did. I mean after finding myself 30 and single after being married all of my adult life, dating was a scary nightmare. The bars and clubs aren't safe and who wants what is there, and meeting someone who isn't just after your body or a pretty armside aint easy. The internet gives you space and time to know someone at a deeper level before physical chemistry takes over. He messaged me regarding a quote listed in my profile by a philosopher he knew, and it grew from there. He had no idea how old I was or where I was from, and when he first asked me of my race, he assumed I was asian. We chatted for weeks, no webcams (I refused, wasn't interested in another male admiring my looks) just really getting to know each other as friends. He was happy with what he saw eventually...lol But that's another story. One year from the day we started talking, we met in person, no rush there either, we both wanted to be sure.

Point is, this is who we are, me and my sweetie... all the kissing, holding, lovey dovey, closeness with family... All of it is who we are, and wanting to celebrate our decision to commit with his family, especially his grandma who once he comes here, he may never see alive again at her age, is a part of us.

The thing that really doesn't settle well with me, is that to prevent being seen as fraudulant general consensus seems to think we should hide parts of ourselves. Yes, there seems to be good reasonings for this line of thought based upon consular experiences... But how screwed up is it, that this embassy has made us fear that if we are open and honest about who and what we are, they will think it a fraud? Something just aint right with that scenario.

All very admirable. Trust me. Most of us share your feelings. However, if you choose to share these pictures, you will be doing so at the risk of having them mis-interpreted, no matter how accurately they are labeled. Honeyblonde was lucky. There have been others who have not been so lucky.

Good luck with whichever course you choose.

Jen

[UmmSqueakster 54]

There have been several posters on VJ in recent months who have had their K-1s denied because their engagements ceremonies looked too much like a marriage ceremony and in one case, the fiance was turned away from the POE at least in part because he refered to his fiancee as his wife and wore a wedding ring.

When I first started looking into the visa process in 01, I bought a popular book on fiance and marriage visas that said that it was a-ok to have a religious/cultural marriage ceremony and even use that as evidence for the k-1 visa and that the USCIS wouldn't care. That has definately changed since then, as evidenced by the number of people who have been screwed by this.

We were religously married but didn't utter a word of that during the interview process.

[babybunny 2]

oh god!

NOT THIS GAME AGAIN.

if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game"

no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!!

BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!!

once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting

a bann. dayum that is selfish.

Edited June 26, 2006 by shonjaved

[soul_encounter 0]

Ok, I don't usually chime in here but I have to disagree heartily with the others. I sent about 80 photos in our I129F, all mounted with captions and neatly bound down with the acco clips.

I sent photos of the entire engagement ceremony including the milk and dates, ring exchange and dancing. I also sent several of us kissing. I was very careful to label everything "engagement ceremony". You can look at our timeline to decide for yourself on the impact of this on our progress.

From what I have seen Morocco is very concerned with validity of relationship and pictures of the two of you kissing will confirm that you actually get intimate - not something so common in a "green-card" marriage.

Abdel said in the interview the guy had our file in front of him when he called him up and he was smiling at the photos. Abdel also had on his engagement ring at the interview.

So, use the photos. Boldly declare your love to the consulate. A huge engagement ceremony is traditional there, and if you don't have one it can be more suspicious than having one. That's what they want to see. Good luck!

Thanks Liz for adding a different point of view here. I tried to look up your timeline but it said no link found? Your pics are beautiful btw. I had to laugh remembering that date and milk thing (I hate milk) but I endured. Really this whole thing can be so darn confusing. I mean, granted, there are fraud green card marriages coming from morocco, no dispute there, and the consulate has to do their job. The thing that gets me, is here we have a genuine relationship, lots of love and support from family and friends. Neither of us think traditionally when it comes to the environment we were raised in, and both are outspoken in what we think is wrong with the world today and how stupid people and societal stigmas can be. He can't stand to hear of arranged marriages or marriages not for love, he thinks all people should have a right to choose in religion and that God loves the person not the religion, He also believes God sees the heart of a person and not the routine acts of devotion (like getting drunk on saturday and going to church on sunday) He believes in physical expressions of emotions and loved holding me closely everywhere we went and kissing every 5 minutes. I agree with him on all of the above and think our society is way too accustomed to mistaking physical attraction for love. That's Probably one of the main reasons I took the time to get to know him and give him a chance. Before we met online, I was hit on daily by men. I've always had male admirers and men attracted to me for my looks, but very few of them actually got to know the heart of me or when they did, they wanted to change me and mold me into their vision of what they wanted. When he saw my profile, there was one picture of me in it, no location, age or other "personal" info listed just a Lot of interests, quotes, poetry etc. I think a lot of women nowadays turn to internet romance for just that reason, I did. I mean after finding myself 30 and single after being married all of my adult life, dating was a scary nightmare. The bars and clubs aren't safe and who wants what is there, and meeting someone who isn't just after your body or a pretty armside aint easy. The internet gives you space and time to know someone at a deeper level before physical chemistry takes over. He messaged me regarding a quote listed in my profile by a philosopher he knew, and it grew from there. He had no idea how old I was or where I was from, and when he first asked me of my race, he assumed I was asian. We chatted for weeks, no webcams (I refused, wasn't interested in another male admiring my looks) just really getting to know each other as friends. He was happy with what he saw eventually...lol But that's another story. One year from the day we started talking, we met in person, no rush there either, we both wanted to be sure.

Point is, this is who we are, me and my sweetie... all the kissing, holding, lovey dovey, closeness with family... All of it is who we are, and wanting to celebrate our decision to commit with his family, especially his grandma who once he comes here, he may never see alive again at her age, is a part of us.

The thing that really doesn't settle well with me, is that to prevent being seen as fraudulant general consensus seems to think we should hide parts of ourselves. Yes, there seems to be good reasonings for this line of thought based upon consular experiences... But how screwed up is it, that this embassy has made us fear that if we are open and honest about who and what we are, they will think it a fraud? Something just aint right with that scenario.

All very admirable. Trust me. Most of us share your feelings. However, if you choose to share these pictures, you will be doing so at the risk of having them mis-interpreted, no matter how accurately they are labeled. Honeyblonde was lucky. There have been others who have not been so lucky.

Good luck with whichever course you choose.

Jen

Thanks for the reply Jen. Not sure really what I will do yet, just reading the experiences and opinions here for now. We have time to think on it. I do like hearing experiences with this situation from ALL points of view and routes though. A part of me says "whatever it takes to get the visa" another part says "it doesn't feel right" and yet another "i'm an adult dammit why do i have to get permission from anyone" lol

[honeyblonde 0]

Calm down Shon! We're not talking about lying or pretending to be something we're not here. Moroccan culture has two ceremonies - the engagement and the wedding. They can be held as much as a year apart, sometimes more. Moroccan men wear engagement rings (at least some do) as well as the women. The problems couples have encountered was when they referred to each other as husband and wife before the legal marriage and slipped and spoke that way in front of immigration officials. Abdel and I called each other rajli and mrati before we were married too, but were aware that it was just being affectionate, like lovers tend to do, not a term we could use in front of people that had to be aware we weren't married yet.

The engagement ceremony is not a marriage. No wedding vows are exchanged, nobody is married in the eyes of Islam even. It is much like the betrothal talked about in the bible where two people vow to marry each other. This vowing to marry does give a couple much freedom in the eyes of the family to become more intimate in many cases, since the family then sees the intended spouse as being serious.

I've watched many many couples on this site, and I'm giving you information based on what I've seen here. I've been here over a year now so I've seen a whole lot. it is vital that your fiancee never call you his wife, and always say engagement and fiancee. You two sound like an intelligent couple so that shouldn't be a problem.

Your fiancee actually sounds very much like my husband. He said he was drawn to my intelligence and happened to like the way I looked too. We've been married over 6 months now, he has his green card, and we're more in love than ever. We're still kissing every 5 minutes and falling asleep late at night after deep intellectual discussions. Right now he's sweating his ####### off working in a sugar refinery and the first thing he told me to do with his paycheck was offer for my youngest son to go back to college. You cannot imagine how much my sons and my family respect him. Good luck on your journey!

[soul_encounter 0]

oh god!

NOT THIS GAME AGAIN.

if you are married say your married stop playing the " lets pretend we are not game"

no one learned nothing from golden heart. this is bad!!!

BE HONEST TELL THE TRUTH! its harder to be DISHONEST than to be HONEST!!!

once you LIE - you have to keep on LYING ... all for a bloody K-1? your gonna risk getting

a bann. dayum that is selfish.

I happen to be one of the most selfless people on earth fyi...

If I go out and hire some elvis here in the USA to perform a marriage ceremony for me and my fiance without first applying for a marriage certificate, am I then married?

And were I to go around shouting "we're married we're married" when neither the USA or Morocco sees it that way, wouldn't that be the real lie? I simply want to know from the experience of others here who have used and not used their ceremony pictures, how the experience went for them. Have you or your fiance had an interview in morocco for K1? Did you have a ceremony in morocco before filing your K1? and if so, did you or did you not use photos from it and how was that experience from your point of view?

[soul_encounter 0]

Calm down Shon! We're not talking about lying or pretending to be something we're not here. Moroccan culture has two ceremonies - the engagement and the wedding. They can be held as much as a year apart, sometimes more. Moroccan men wear engagement rings (at least some do) as well as the women. The problems couples have encountered was when they referred to each other as husband and wife before the legal marriage and slipped and spoke that way in front of immigration officials. Abdel and I called each other rajli and mrati before we were married too, but were aware that it was just being affectionate, like lovers tend to do, not a term we could use in front of people that had to be aware we weren't married yet.

The engagement ceremony is not a marriage. No wedding vows are exchanged, nobody is married in the eyes of Islam even. It is much like the betrothal talked about in the bible where two people vow to marry each other. This vowing to marry does give a couple much freedom in the eyes of the family to become more intimate in many cases, since the family then sees the intended spouse as being serious.

I've watched many many couples on this site, and I'm giving you information based on what I've seen here. I've been here over a year now so I've seen a whole lot. it is vital that your fiancee never call you his wife, and always say engagement and fiancee. You two sound like an intelligent couple so that shouldn't be a problem.

Your fiancee actually sounds very much like my husband. He said he was drawn to my intelligence and happened to like the way I looked too. We've been married over 6 months now, he has his green card, and we're more in love than ever. We're still kissing every 5 minutes and falling asleep late at night after deep intellectual discussions. Right now he's sweating his ####### off working in a sugar refinery and the first thing he told me to do with his paycheck was offer for my youngest son to go back to college. You cannot imagine how much my sons and my family respect him. Good luck on your journey!

Really, you have no idea how happy hearing your story makes me. Congratulations on your success! I'm glad to know your sweetie is here, and you're still kissing every 5 minutes. In my opinion, that is a must in any successful relationship, well at least enjoyable... lol After hearing stories of denials based on the calling of a fiance a spouse, we have both become very cautious of that, even in alone talks. Thankfully, my fiance does speak very good english and yea, he's a smartie, one of the many things I love about him.

Looking back, had I known what I know now about the fiance/spouse confusion, imbra delays, etc. We may very well have chosen to stay the extra time tracking down real marriage papers and filed K3... who knows, but what's done is done and all we can do is the best we can from where we are now. We filed our K1 just a week or so before all the imbra ####### hit the fan...lol just another hurdle, one way or another, we will make it through and be together. Good Luck to you two ... oh and your son, how awesome