Inheritance under married name in Eastern Europe

[Brad and Vika 129]

Hi folks - I posted this in another forum and got no responses. I thought I would try it here.

Thanks in advance for your help and opinions.

Vika and I are talking about having both a civil and church marriage in Ukraine next year. She has heard that it will be a huge problem to inherit property from her grandparents and parents if her name and address of record are changed. She is currently named in three wills, and has been told repeatedly by relatives and others that a civil marriage will cause all sorts of problems. What if anything can be done about this, or is it much ado about nothing?

[chili74 0]

Hi Brad- I just wanted to respond and say I am not sure I understand your question, but I have a few ideas I hope may be helpful.

If Vika did not take special steps to de-register herself before coming to the US (and according to my poll, most FSU people did NOT), then she is still officially at her Ukrainian address/propiska. Her name is a different story (why not just keep her maiden name for the purposes of everything in Ukraine?)

It seems to me that these are totally separate issues from what kinds of weddings you want to have in Ukraine. I assume when you say "civil marriage" next year in Ukraine, you want to simply go to ZAGS and change her status to "married". Because, of course, in order to have a "civil marriage", you both need to be single As far as a church ceremony, that is altogether separate. In Russia, at least, a church ceremony is only official when paired with the ZAGS civil wedding.

Best of luck!

[slim 1,525]

I'm guessing the only problem would be that she is now a "different person" if her name is changed, even through marriage and to legally inherit all the stuff, they would have to change all the wills. That would be a problem.

Solutions I see would be to either get them to change the wills or follow through with the legal action of ensuring she's eligible to inherit whatever is willed to her. (Consult a lawyer in Ukraine.) Or, just do what chili was suggesting, have the "marriage" in Ukraine but leave all her paperwork same as it is now.

[mox 298]

If the inheritance is substantial, it would be worth your time to consult a Ukrainian attorney to know for sure. I suspect it's not a problem. You've probably been told before by your wife, "we are not savages," and I suspect they've got a legal structure in place to handle such eventualities. But you really should consult an attorney anyway, as he/she will probably uncover other gotchas.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Vika says that there is a legal process to get the devise accomplished, but if her name is changes it takes (potentially) several trips back and forth, with appearances, to secure an inheritance. That situation does not seem radically different than the US. Interestingly, she says that if her name is obviously not Ukrainian or Russian it causes additional problems that seem to be cultural (not realy legal). All this from the rumor mill of course. We do realize that church weddings and civil weddings are unrelated, and that unlike the US, a church wedding is apparently not recognized as legitimate by civil authorities. Strange, as common law marraige apparently does carry water, legally speaking.

I really was asking if some one knew a way around the problems. Maybe changing the wills is the right thing. But just because it makes intuitive sense that changing the wills to match her married name would legitimize her claim, and because that would take care of the problem here in America, does not mean it would work in Ukraine.

[LvivLovers 39]

Vika says that there is a legal process to get the devise accomplished, but if her name is changes it takes (potentially) several trips back and forth, with appearances, to secure an inheritance. That situation does not seem radically different than the US. Interestingly, she says that if her name is obviously not Ukrainian or Russian it causes additional problems that seem to be cultural (not realy legal). All this from the rumor mill of course. We do realize that church weddings and civil weddings are unrelated, and that unlike the US, a church wedding is apparently not recognized as legitimate by civil authorities. Strange, as common law marraige apparently does carry water, legally speaking.

I really was asking if some one knew a way around the problems. Maybe changing the wills is the right thing. But just because it makes intuitive sense that changing the wills to match her married name would legitimize her claim, and because that would take care of the problem here in America, does not mean it would work in Ukraine.

Like others, I'd advise you to get a Ukrainian lawyer...it's just not a common enough situation to know the answers. There may be some truth to the non-Ukrainian name thing...I know when we were going through our marriage process (we had a civil and church wedding in Ukraine)...they seemed to charge extra "inofficial" money due to this at various stages. When my wife complained about it, they told her...you're marrying an American...you can afford it...or something like that! It was pretty annoying but I figured it was easiest not to rock the boat or mess with their "process". lol My wife was shocked several times though. She changed her name in her Ukrainian passport and then international passport while still over there.

So I would suspect your wife could do the same just to get everything in sync, but probably it would be good to have the wills or anything else also match. As far as a civil ceremony, I wouldn't think you can do that since you are already married. To get married in Ukraine you have to go to the US embassy in Kyiv and swear that you are free and clear to get married...they give you a document that you then have to take to get authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs...so that whole process would break down if you are already married. There may be some way to have your marriage officially recognized in Ukraine but I would think all you need for that is an apostilled marriage certificate that you then might need to again take to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or some similar office. Keep us updated...my wife also is still part owner of her apartment in Lviv so I'm curious to see what all the rules are.

So does anyone know exactly what the situation is with de-registering, etc.? My wife wants to go back to visit next summer. We don't want to have any problems like having her stuck in Ukraine unable to return. Since she has a green card and a Ukrainian passport, which does she use? I'm assuming it would be a problem to travel to Ukraine showing her Ukrainian passport and then coming back not use the same, since it would show she travelled to Ukraine but have no record of travelling back. How does that work? Anyone?

[slim 1,525]

Since she has a green card and a Ukrainian passport, which does she use? I'm assuming it would be a problem to travel to Ukraine showing her Ukrainian passport and then coming back not use the same, since it would show she travelled to Ukraine but have no record of travelling back. How does that work? Anyone?

To enter Ukraine she'd use her Ukrainian passport. To exit, she'd show her passport plus American green card (authorized entry to U.S.) and that would allow her to exit without any problems. To enter the U.S., she'd simply show her green card and her Ukrainian passport.

Basically, it's the same in both countries. To enter you need something good for here but we have to prove who you were over there. To exit, we have to prove who you are here and then something authorizing you to enter over there.

Kind of redundant.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Vika says that there is a legal process to get the devise accomplished, but if her name is changes it takes (potentially) several trips back and forth, with appearances, to secure an inheritance. That situation does not seem radically different than the US. Interestingly, she says that if her name is obviously not Ukrainian or Russian it causes additional problems that seem to be cultural (not realy legal). All this from the rumor mill of course. We do realize that church weddings and civil weddings are unrelated, and that unlike the US, a church wedding is apparently not recognized as legitimate by civil authorities. Strange, as common law marraige apparently does carry water, legally speaking.

I really was asking if some one knew a way around the problems. Maybe changing the wills is the right thing. But just because it makes intuitive sense that changing the wills to match her married name would legitimize her claim, and because that would take care of the problem here in America, does not mean it would work in Ukraine.

Like others, I'd advise you to get a Ukrainian lawyer...it's just not a common enough situation to know the answers. There may be some truth to the non-Ukrainian name thing...I know when we were going through our marriage process (we had a civil and church wedding in Ukraine)...they seemed to charge extra "inofficial" money due to this at various stages. When my wife complained about it, they told her...you're marrying an American...you can afford it...or something like that! It was pretty annoying but I figured it was easiest not to rock the boat or mess with their "process". lol My wife was shocked several times though. She changed her name in her Ukrainian passport and then international passport while still over there.

So I would suspect your wife could do the same just to get everything in sync, but probably it would be good to have the wills or anything else also match. As far as a civil ceremony, I wouldn't think you can do that since you are already married. To get married in Ukraine you have to go to the US embassy in Kyiv and swear that you are free and clear to get married...they give you a document that you then have to take to get authenticated by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs...so that whole process would break down if you are already married. There may be some way to have your marriage officially recognized in Ukraine but I would think all you need for that is an apostilled marriage certificate that you then might need to again take to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or some similar office. Keep us updated...my wife also is still part owner of her apartment in Lviv so I'm curious to see what all the rules are.

So does anyone know exactly what the situation is with de-registering, etc.? My wife wants to go back to visit next summer. We don't want to have any problems like having her stuck in Ukraine unable to return. Since she has a green card and a Ukrainian passport, which does she use? I'm assuming it would be a problem to travel to Ukraine showing her Ukrainian passport and then coming back not use the same, since it would show she travelled to Ukraine but have no record of travelling back. How does that work? Anyone?

How long did it take to get her name changed in her passports? I heard that that can get her stuck in Ukraine for some time.

[LvivLovers 39]

Since she has a green card and a Ukrainian passport, which does she use? I'm assuming it would be a problem to travel to Ukraine showing her Ukrainian passport and then coming back not use the same, since it would show she travelled to Ukraine but have no record of travelling back. How does that work? Anyone?

To enter Ukraine she'd use her Ukrainian passport. To exit, she'd show her passport plus American green card (authorized entry to U.S.) and that would allow her to exit without any problems. To enter the U.S., she'd simply show her green card and her Ukrainian passport.

Basically, it's the same in both countries. To enter you need something good for here but we have to prove who you were over there. To exit, we have to prove who you are here and then something authorizing you to enter over there.

Kind of redundant.

Thanks, Slim!

[LvivLovers 39]

How long did it take to get her name changed in her passports? I heard that that can get her stuck in Ukraine for some time.

Well all this happened right after we got married. I had to come back to work in the US and while she was waiting for K3 visa to be approved she first applied to have her name changed in her Ukranian internal passport. That took about a month if I recall correctly, but I remember you could speed things up depending on how much you were willing to pay. Once she had that she then applied for her international passport and I think that took a couple weeks. I'm guessing you could do the same through the Ukrainian embassy while living here in the USA if you wanted to make sure not to get stuck in Ukraine.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Thanks for the information. It seems like a load of hassle to get both passports changed, then change the wills too. I guess we will have to discuss how much time and money we want to invest. More to follow.