Texas Secession--Where Would It Lead? A Look at a Future Lone Star Republic

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

[*Robert* 2]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

Get the bumper stickers printed.

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

Get the bumper stickers printed.

[*Robert* 2]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

Get the bumper stickers printed.

What, Charles? You don't like the idea of making those bumper stickers?!

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

Get the bumper stickers printed.

What, Charles? You don't like the idea of making those bumper stickers?!

[*Robert* 2]

Maybe Texas could become part of Mexico and we could move the border farther north.

You mean, act like the Battle of the Alamo never happened?

No, it happened. Now we just won't remember it.

New slogan: Forget the Alamo and ** Texas!!!

Get the bumper stickers printed.

What, Charles? You don't like the idea of making those bumper stickers?!

I take that as a "no"!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Maybe we unionists are being hasty. Maybe we should let Texas secede.

Think about what life in Texas would be like if its pandering governor has his way.

The new nation would have to raise an Army and a Navy and an Air Force from scratch, of course. For the first few years, if it didn't want to be gobbled up by Mexico or intimidated by the hugely irritated United States to the north, there would probably have to be confiscatory taxation, and a draft of a million or so healthy men and women over 18, just to guard its thousands of miles of borders. The drug violence and corruption in Mexico would quickly move north and permeate the new nation. Loyal Americans would no doubt launch a resistance movement. Under such conditions, in this militaristic state, we can assume that certain "adjustments" would be made in civil liberties.

Because the US is doing such a bang-up job protecting its borders?

Do we have a problem with the US/Canadian border?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Maybe we unionists are being hasty. Maybe we should let Texas secede.

Think about what life in Texas would be like if its pandering governor has his way.

The new nation would have to raise an Army and a Navy and an Air Force from scratch, of course. For the first few years, if it didn't want to be gobbled up by Mexico or intimidated by the hugely irritated United States to the north, there would probably have to be confiscatory taxation, and a draft of a million or so healthy men and women over 18, just to guard its thousands of miles of borders. The drug violence and corruption in Mexico would quickly move north and permeate the new nation. Loyal Americans would no doubt launch a resistance movement. Under such conditions, in this militaristic state, we can assume that certain "adjustments" would be made in civil liberties.

Because the US is doing such a bang-up job protecting its borders?

Do we have a problem with the US/Canadian border?

Too many trees?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Maybe we unionists are being hasty. Maybe we should let Texas secede.

Think about what life in Texas would be like if its pandering governor has his way.

The new nation would have to raise an Army and a Navy and an Air Force from scratch, of course. For the first few years, if it didn't want to be gobbled up by Mexico or intimidated by the hugely irritated United States to the north, there would probably have to be confiscatory taxation, and a draft of a million or so healthy men and women over 18, just to guard its thousands of miles of borders. The drug violence and corruption in Mexico would quickly move north and permeate the new nation. Loyal Americans would no doubt launch a resistance movement. Under such conditions, in this militaristic state, we can assume that certain "adjustments" would be made in civil liberties.

Because the US is doing such a bang-up job protecting its borders?

Do we have a problem with the US/Canadian border?

Too many trees?

...and Sasquatch.

[Texanadian 10]

Maybe we unionists are being hasty. Maybe we should let Texas secede.

Think about what life in Texas would be like if its pandering governor has his way.

The new nation would have to raise an Army and a Navy and an Air Force from scratch, of course. For the first few years, if it didn't want to be gobbled up by Mexico or intimidated by the hugely irritated United States to the north, there would probably have to be confiscatory taxation, and a draft of a million or so healthy men and women over 18, just to guard its thousands of miles of borders. The drug violence and corruption in Mexico would quickly move north and permeate the new nation. Loyal Americans would no doubt launch a resistance movement. Under such conditions, in this militaristic state, we can assume that certain "adjustments" would be made in civil liberties.

A draft of a million people? Why not just do it the easy way. Bring the TX national guard troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. The thousands of miles of border isn't guarded now as is. The TX national guard (army) is roughly 15,000 people. More when you add in the TX national guard (air force). The US army has tons of Texans who would probably switch ranks to join the TX army. Why wouldn't they? Would you rather be stationed in Baghdad? Or Brownsville?

So, high taxes and repressive government. Texas could play its hand like Cuba, and become a satellite of China or Russia, and save money on defense that way, but that sort of defeats the purpose of independence, no? Isn't escaping "socialism" the whole point?

China and Russia? Where would the high taxes come from? I suspect they might raise the state sales tax from the current 6.25% to maybe 10%. But still no federal taxes.

With all that local tax money going to defense, the state's schools and roads and bridges and medical infrastructure would suffer. Agribusiness and ranchers and old folks and colleges would decline as well. No more of that dreaded U.S. federal aid.

Just the opposite. Roads would be better. Rather than paying federal and state gas tax. We would simply pay the state the amount we currently pay the feds. The difference would be that the state would actually use the money to build roads. All road building would be local (at least from a state point of view). Money that is spent locally tends to work better than federally funded stuff. Do you think Alaska would have wanted to build their "bridge to nowhere" if their road system were 100% funded by Alaska? Of course not. But once they got their hands on federal highway money, they decided to green light it. Once the media caught on to it, they canceled the project...they still kept the money for it of course. They simply spent that on other stuff. It's too easy to complain about bad highways when the money for it comes from the feds. But when it's local, you actually have some say in the matter.

Medical? We have the Texas medical center. Largest medical center in the world with the top rated cancer centers in the world. People come here to get treated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Medical_Center

One of the first things we'd do is get rid of the federal rule that says everybody must be treated regardless of ability to pay. Why do you think San Diego is closing their hospitals and declaring them bankrupt? Too many people are using them then skipping out on the bill. It's a problem in Texas too. The feds collect money off your paystub for medicare and are supposedly supposed to give the individual states money to run their state medicaid program. But the money is always less than what the state uses for medicaid.

Schools are payed for with property taxes.

I presume that more than a few of Houston's wealthy lawyers and doctors and Dallas financiers would decide that the ol' US of A isn't so bad a place, after all, and discover the charms of Colorado and New Mexico. So brain drain would be a problem. Offshore accounts and tax evasion would flourish.

Just the opposite. The brain drain would be INTO Texas. It already is to a certain extent. US corporate tax is 35%. Canada's is 19%. If we set it at 15% and had no state income tax, all the big companies would move here. Wal-Mart wouldn't have to go far. They're next door in Arkansas. Bring in Home Depot, Sears, the list goes on.

As for manufacturing, Texas doesn't really make anything important by itself anymore. Its oil fields are pretty much tapped. We in the states would be taking back NASA and closing all our military bases, of course. I suppose that, until the American states along the Gulf build up their ports, Houston and Galveston might limp along for a while. But the U.S. embargo on Texas imports, in the long run, would empty those docks.

Trade wars rarely work. Houston has the largest port in the USA. The 10th biggest in the world. The port is also disgustingly polluted. What state would want to build up something like that along their coast? What state has the money to build up a huge port like that? Feel free to take back NASA. They should have been privatized years ago. No reason to close the US bases. The US has over 700 bases in over 130 foreign countries around the world. No need to close shop in the country of Texas.

Austin would be an interesting case. Would its liberal software designers, musicians, University of Texas faculty and filmmakers stay with Texas? Or secede, in turn, from Texas and rejoin the United States? Or become a kind of laid-back Switzerland, playing both countries against each other?

I wonder what the Californians in Austin would do? The city is getting inundated with them. They all sell their 1500 sq ft $800,000 homes in California and move to Austin where they can buy a 3000 sq ft home for $250,000 and then live in a much lower cost of living state with the same weather. Austin people don't like it because they drive the price of real estate up and vote for the same high tax high spending type of politicians that are in California.

Just think of the cost saving measures. No more third world bailouts. No more foreign wars. We wouldn't have to deal with the federal no child left behind blunder. While the rest of the US is dealing with huge electricity bills and dirty polluted oil furnaces trying to heat their homes from -20° to 70° in the winter, we cool our homes from 90° to 75° all year long with central air conditioners (heat pump technology). Actually air conditioning is even cheaper than heat pumps since there is no inefficient defrost cycle or inefficient auxiliary heat mode. While places like California have rolling blackouts, we keep going business as usual. We have coal, natural gas, hydro dam, nuclear, and wind power electricity. The largest amount of wind mill power of any state (surprising considering our dirty stereotype) and while the rest of the country deals with their shared electricity grid, we have our own Texas electricity grid already in place.

Do I think Texas should go on it's own? Obviously there are benefits. But there would be negatives too. The paperwork and legal issues would be huge. Texas residents would still be able to collect their SS money same as anybody else. You get paid that anywhere you live in the world. I wonder what kind of SS system we would have. Or if we would even have one at all. Seems many people currently pay more for SS than they pay for federal income taxes. The returns on SS are pretty paltry. You could do better simply with a regular high interest savings account (like ING). There would be a zillion different headaches like how does a green card holder in the US fit into the country of Texas?

Perhaps the single biggest difference would be that we have balanced budget laws while the US federal government doesn't.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Texanadian

[DeadPoolX 9]

Maybe we unionists are being hasty. Maybe we should let Texas secede.

Think about what life in Texas would be like if its pandering governor has his way.

The new nation would have to raise an Army and a Navy and an Air Force from scratch, of course. For the first few years, if it didn't want to be gobbled up by Mexico or intimidated by the hugely irritated United States to the north, there would probably have to be confiscatory taxation, and a draft of a million or so healthy men and women over 18, just to guard its thousands of miles of borders. The drug violence and corruption in Mexico would quickly move north and permeate the new nation. Loyal Americans would no doubt launch a resistance movement. Under such conditions, in this militaristic state, we can assume that certain "adjustments" would be made in civil liberties.

A draft of a million people? Why not just do it the easy way. Bring the TX national guard troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. The thousands of miles of border isn't guarded now as is. The TX national guard (army) is roughly 15,000 people. More when you add in the TX national guard (air force). The US army has tons of Texans who would probably switch ranks to join the TX army. Why wouldn't they? Would you rather be stationed in Baghdad? Or Brownsville?

So, high taxes and repressive government. Texas could play its hand like Cuba, and become a satellite of China or Russia, and save money on defense that way, but that sort of defeats the purpose of independence, no? Isn't escaping "socialism" the whole point?

China and Russia? Where would the high taxes come from? I suspect they might raise the state sales tax from the current 6.25% to maybe 10%. But still no federal taxes.

With all that local tax money going to defense, the state's schools and roads and bridges and medical infrastructure would suffer. Agribusiness and ranchers and old folks and colleges would decline as well. No more of that dreaded U.S. federal aid.

Just the opposite. Roads would be better. Rather than paying federal and state gas tax. We would simply pay the state the amount we currently pay the feds. The difference would be that the state would actually use the money to build roads. All road building would be local (at least from a state point of view). Money that is spent locally tends to work better than federally funded stuff. Do you think Alaska would have wanted to build their "bridge to nowhere" if their road system were 100% funded by Alaska? Of course not. But once they got their hands on federal highway money, they decided to green light it. Once the media caught on to it, they canceled the project...they still kept the money for it of course. They simply spent that on other stuff. It's too easy to complain about bad highways when the money for it comes from the feds. But when it's local, you actually have some say in the matter.

Medical? We have the Texas medical center. Largest medical center in the world with the top rated cancer centers in the world. People come here to get treated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Medical_Center

One of the first things we'd do is get rid of the federal rule that says everybody must be treated regardless of ability to pay. Why do you think San Diego is closing their hospitals and declaring them bankrupt? Too many people are using them then skipping out on the bill. It's a problem in Texas too. The feds collect money off your paystub for medicare and are supposedly supposed to give the individual states money to run their state medicaid program. But the money is always less than what the state uses for medicaid.

Schools are payed for with property taxes.

I presume that more than a few of Houston's wealthy lawyers and doctors and Dallas financiers would decide that the ol' US of A isn't so bad a place, after all, and discover the charms of Colorado and New Mexico. So brain drain would be a problem. Offshore accounts and tax evasion would flourish.

Just the opposite. The brain drain would be INTO Texas. It already is to a certain extent. US corporate tax is 35%. Canada's is 19%. If we set it at 15% and had no state income tax, all the big companies would move here. Wal-Mart wouldn't have to go far. They're next door in Arkansas. Bring in Home Depot, Sears, the list goes on.

As for manufacturing, Texas doesn't really make anything important by itself anymore. Its oil fields are pretty much tapped. We in the states would be taking back NASA and closing all our military bases, of course. I suppose that, until the American states along the Gulf build up their ports, Houston and Galveston might limp along for a while. But the U.S. embargo on Texas imports, in the long run, would empty those docks.

Trade wars rarely work. Houston has the largest port in the USA. The 10th biggest in the world. The port is also disgustingly polluted. What state would want to build up something like that along their coast? What state has the money to build up a huge port like that? Feel free to take back NASA. They should have been privatized years ago. No reason to close the US bases. The US has over 700 bases in over 130 foreign countries around the world. No need to close shop in the country of Texas.

Austin would be an interesting case. Would its liberal software designers, musicians, University of Texas faculty and filmmakers stay with Texas? Or secede, in turn, from Texas and rejoin the United States? Or become a kind of laid-back Switzerland, playing both countries against each other?

I wonder what the Californians in Austin would do? The city is getting inundated with them. They all sell their 1500 sq ft $800,000 homes in California and move to Austin where they can buy a 3000 sq ft home for $250,000 and then live in a much lower cost of living state with the same weather. Austin people don't like it because they drive the price of real estate up and vote for the same high tax high spending type of politicians that are in California.

Just think of the cost saving measures. No more third world bailouts. No more foreign wars. We wouldn't have to deal with the federal no child left behind blunder. While the rest of the US is dealing with huge electricity bills and dirty polluted oil furnaces trying to heat their homes from -20° to 70° in the winter, we cool our homes from 90° to 75° all year long with central air conditioners (heat pump technology). Actually air conditioning is even cheaper than heat pumps since there is no inefficient defrost cycle or inefficient auxiliary heat mode. While places like California have rolling blackouts, we keep going business as usual. We have coal, natural gas, hydro dam, nuclear, and wind power electricity. The largest amount of wind mill power of any state (surprising considering our dirty stereotype) and while the rest of the country deals with their shared electricity grid, we have our own Texas electricity grid already in place.

Do I think Texas should go on it's own? Obviously there are benefits. But there would be negatives too. The paperwork and legal issues would be huge. Texas residents would still be able to collect their SS money same as anybody else. You get paid that anywhere you live in the world. I wonder what kind of SS system we would have. Or if we would even have one at all. Seems many people currently pay more for SS than they pay for federal income taxes. The returns on SS are pretty paltry. You could do better simply with a regular high interest savings account (like ING). There would be a zillion different headaches like how does a green card holder in the US fit into the country of Texas?

Perhaps the single biggest difference would be that we have balanced budget laws while the US federal government doesn't.

:thumbs:

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Secession: Just not in the budget

April 18, 2009, 10:43AM

There is absolutely no point in any state, perhaps least of all Texas, even thinking about secession from the United States, were it remotely legally possible under the Constitution.

Texas can't afford it.

This just shows what fools there are among us as the core Republican Party dwindles down to the whack jobs and nutcases, and for Governor Rick Perry to not rule the absurdity of secession out immediately and forcefully just shows where he's pitching his tent.

Consider that, according to the U.S. Census Consolidated Federal Funds Report for Texas in 2007 (available at http://harvester.census.gov/cffr/asp/Geography.asp), the federal government sent over $171,000,000,000 into Texas through direct payments and obligations and a nearly equal amount, about $160,000,000,000 indirectly through loans, guarantees and insurance.

Let's say just for fun, we all sign the papers and Texas becomes the Lone Star Republic again. After the last refrains of "The Yellow Rose of Texas" die away, here's what else stops:

Medicare

Federal Medicaid share

Food Stamps

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families

Military spending

NASA spending

University grants

Scholarships

Federal housing assistance

Federal jobs

Interstate highway maintenance

Airport operations under the FAA

Farm subsidies

Small Business Loans

Coast Guard operations

National park operations

Why bother continuing this list? The very existence of Texas is part and parcel with the continuity of the federal government and federal spending before we consider dime one of the stimulus package. Of course, all the wages that this generates, the purchases, the state and local tax revenues, well, that's got to stop of course. And that's just what stops NOW.

I think Texas owes us for those interstate highways my tax dollars helped build, plus the cost of relocating our military bases, not to mention NASA operations, and those independent Chuck Norris wannabe's better pay up if we're leaving those national parks behind. Of course, there are also oil, mineral, and grazing rights on federal (sorry) FORMERLY federal lands but I'm sure we can work something out.

By the way, Texas, we'll be expecting you to keep that border secure with Mexico. If you don't, we'll just have to secure your border with us. And that super-duper truck highway from Mexico to Oklahoma City that was in the pipeline? Fuggedaboudit. Rail travel is going to be a little trickier, too. And you'll have to secure your own seaports.

Social Security and Veterans programs will, of course, have to transition. Over time, those who have already paid into the Social Security system will be taken care of, but any new enrollments stop. Veterans are a slightly different category - would Texas veterans forego their rights to benefits? Tough question, and I'm 50/50 on it right now.

I know, we're in a bit of a housing slump, but don't count on any federal support for a secondary mortgage market. You'll have to build your own. But it's going to be awfully tough to get Texas housing sales started again with 85% down payments.

On the subject of finance, no more FDIC insurance, PBGIC insurance, SEC coverage, well, the list gets awfully long awfully fast. And since American Airlines would no longer be American Airlines if it stays in Dallas, maybe it can move up to Chicago where United is already, I'm sure they'd have lots to talk about.

Not to mention Bank of America, Citibank, J.P. Morgan Chase, U.S. Bank, Wells Fargo, we know these guys "follow the money" and there's just not going to be as much in Texas anymore so don't expect the money center banks to remain there in strength. That's OK - I'm sure the financial largesse of the First State Bank of San Antonio will pull you through.

Come to think of it, I don't think the NCAA has room in its charter for foreign country athletic teams, so goodbye to the UT-Oklahoma annual football clash and any other games with teams beyond your turf. I'll grant that there is plenty of precedent in professional sports so the Pokes and the Redskins will probably still have their twice-annual tilts. You'll have that going for you anyway.

I see a lot of advertisements "here up north" for vacationers to come to Texas. Even if the U.S. is generous and doesn't slap travel restrictions onto your fair nation while easing those on Cuba (what delicious irony) I'm thinking that a lot of U.S. travelers will be spending their vacations in California. "Remember the Alamo" will go from being a statement to a question.

By the way, have we come to the point of your new currency? Good luck with that, folks. I see you trading initially at 50 "Texas Stars" to the Ruble, but there's nowhere to go after that but up. Maybe.

The scariest part of all this for Texans is that maybe Mexico is going to want you back. I think they might still be pretty pissed off. But that's OK because Dubya can come out of reitrement, suit up, and lead the Texas Air National Guard to repel the invaders -- Hollywood couldn't come up with anything better! Oh, wait -- isn't that the basic plot of "Independence Day"?

The notion of any state seceding can only be described as infantile, and for any political figure to indulge the idea even for a moment is idiotic, even if they're just trying to get some face time on Fox. It's so remarkably stupid, I was able to dash this posting off in about 45 minutes, research included. I'd really like to see experts take some time and dimension what it would involve to disentangle Texas from the United States. Truth is, there won't be a lot left after We The People leave.

Hey, I don't hang around where I'm not wanted.

[natty bumppo 297]

And TX can expel all the illegals onto the remaining States or back to wherever they came from

That alone should put TX into a budget surplus.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

And TX can expel all the illegals onto the remaining States or back to wherever they came from

That alone should put TX into a budget surplus.

Aah, I see. You're applying that age-old financial rule.... the more outrageous and emotionally aggravating an expense is, the bigger the expense must be!

Genius!