I need serious help. 1st marriage of hubby called marriage fraud

[nycgirl 13]

I just want to say that immigration is far, far too regulated. For God's sake, we really need to have this much control over people who come here seeking a better life? This is ridiculous. Quite frankly, it's NONE of the government's business whom I marry or for what purpose. We really need to put this much effort, time, and money into keeping immigrants out? When our birth rate is starting to fall? Why? The only thing we should be concerned with is whether someone has a criminal record and can support themselves here in the US. Other than that, who firetruckin' cares?

So you want every Tom, ####### and Harry to be able to just cross our borders, come here, wreak havoc and put Americans at risk?

I understand that you are frustrated that they are giving you a hard time, but understand that there are reasons why immigration is the way it is. They may not be the most efficient government agency, but when it is all said and done, I am glad there is some entity out there keeping the crazies out of my backyard. Unfortunately, innocent people do get caught in the crossfire.

Immigration has no concrete way of knowing who's crazy and who's not other than criminal record checks and background checks. They should stay out of my marriage, as long as my husband has a clean criminal record, a clean background, and can support himself. Other than that -none of their business.

Okay, now that's just crazy talk!! USCIS bases its decisions on lots of things (no matter what YOU may think the criteria should be).......behavior, background, record, past marriages, PAST MARRIAGE FRAUD, patterns of immigration fraud from a particular country and so much more. And they are VERY good at what they do.

If you spend much time reading on here, you will see that much of the frustration form most members is small stuff like paperwork delays and snags. You will rarely read about a case where someone was turned down FOR NO REASON.

Most people who post these stories about extreme unfairness in the process have some very NUTTY twists and turns to their story!! Like you!

As frustrated as we get with the "system", I doubt that any USC or immigrant would prefer the immigration process to be a "free for all" Unfortunately your husband made some very BAD mistakes, and they will take time to clear up. Such is life. Deal with it. Don't trash the US government and the USCIS just because you can't snap your fingers and get what you want. Childish.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

So, let's just focus on the former wife for a minute, because, like it or not, whether he is innocent or not, the onus is upon him to demonstrate that his marriage to her was bonafide. Right now, we know that she admitted to having conspired with a few other US citizen females to commit immigration fraud. Now perhaps her marriage was not one of these "arrangements" but clearly it would not have been out of the question, and certainly in light of what she was planning/attempting/assisting others to do. That being said, she was punished. There was sufficient evidence to support a conviction, albeit one with a reduced sentence. Why do you think the ex-wife was the only one they went after and that your current husband is not a target of USCIS's interests? Why would it be necessary for the US government to commit its resources to charging and hoping to convict him of immigration fraud and then the cost of ultimately deporting him if successful, if he had already demonstrated that the marriage was no longer viable BEFORE the adjustment of status application had been adjudicated? He became statutorily ineligible for permanent residence by virtue of the fact that his marriage was in a terminal state and had ended prior to his application being decided. To deny his application (on the basis that he was no longer eligible and that there was sufficient evidence to suggest that his marriage was also not bonafide) was a sure-fire way of getting him later, without the expense or man-power required to charge him and then go through the process in Immigration Court of proving their decision was correct. It required only a ministerial (administrative) process to deny him the privilege of PR, and any subsequent attempt to secure PR with a second marriage (bonafide or otherwise) would be foiled. Naturally, if unsuccessful he could operate under the radar, and may not be removed from the country quickly, but in fact, he hasn't been successful in perpetrating marriage fraud with the ex-wife, and may not be able to secure PR with you, either.

You might think I am being unsympathetic, and perhaps I am, but if you have even a slightest hope to be successful in your attempt to secure his legal status, you'll need to ditch that attitude you have. There are many innocent people that are falsely accused of all sorts of crimes in the USA. Many of them implicated by virtue of a much less obvious connections with the principal operant. Your husband might be completely innocent of the acts his ex-wife was clearly involved with. Then again, just maybe, he isn't. Only he knows what was really going on....and I say that with confidence because if he were involved in some sordid plan, I highly doubt he would admit it to you, now or ever.

And by the way, adjudications officers don't always play their hand in front of an applicant. In fact, AOs are not always part of a Fraud Investigation team. But regardless, if your husband's intentions in the first marriage were legitimate, and he had such a tumultuous marriage with her illegal activities and did not wish to be a partof it, why on earth didn't he file under VAWA. I think his failure to pursue options that were clearly available to him might cast some doubt on the nature of his involvement and quite possibly may have also helped to make the bed his is currently lying in.

Well if she was indicted and charged with conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, was it with your currnet husband or another individual? The reason I ask is that if it was with your husband, then there is apparently some evidence to suggest she was paid to marry him. Are you sure you know all the details of your husband's past?

She was indicted as being part of a conspiracy with other US Citizen females. Keep in mind this was RIGHT AFTER 9/11 and there was a lot of discrimination and distrust against Muslims at that time.

There is no evidence she was paid to marry him. If there were, that officer would have happily shoved it in my face during the interview, and secondly, they'd have gone after him too. Why let him off, if there is real evidence that he's defrauding the US government?

She is the only person who clearly intended to commit marriage fraud. If that is even true. Because we don't know why she would cop to that, and keep in mind she was already in jail on other charges when she signed her plea agreement.

Edited April 23, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[Krikit 1,165]

She plead guilty to conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, and was given a slap on the wrist in exchange for providing the US Attorney substantial assistance.

If she plead guilty and your husband is the one she married and commited fraud with, then he is also guilty and that is why he was denied. It doesn't matter whether she lied or not..... she is guilty of fraud because that's what she plead. I'm rather confused as to why your husband wasn't deported, though. This whole thing isn't making much sense. Please let us know how things turn out for you. We wish you all the best no matter what happens.

[shemarienp 0]

Immigration is not doing anything to you. It seems like the problems have stemmed from the AOS application that he submitted with his first wife. Your marriage is not their business, but your husband's legal status in the US is.

As for the criminal and background checks, that is all they can go on. Sometimes the wait does weed out those that were looking for an easy way in. You and I may not like the way the system is set up, but it is there for a reason. Like I said in my previous post, sometimes innocent people get caught up in all this. It is not 100% foolproof.

As has been said on this board, immigration is a privilege, not a right.

Don't take me wrong, I don't want to argue but I think this is a discussion that needs to happen in this country. Why should we make it so difficult for people to immigrate to this country?

As for my marriage not actually being their business, it sure didn't seem like it in that interview. She even thought my religion was her business and said she didn't believe that my parents had no problem with me becoming a Muslim.

What happened to 'give me your poor, your tired, your hungry...'? Immigrants were useful to America when this country was being built, but now that it's been built, who needs 'em, right? Not saying that you're saying that, I'm talking about the attitude there seems to be about immigrants. Instead of treating immigrants like human beings, immigration treats them like trash washing up on our shores. And then they treat citizens who marry immigrants like people who have married beneath their class. Perhaps I am just angry because of how things are going for us, and maybe I'm looking at things from a skewed perspective, but there IS a problem with immigration and how we treat immigrants in this country.

[Krikit 1,165]

Your husband might be completely innocent of the acts his ex-wife was clearly involved with. Then again, just maybe, he isn't. Only he knows what was really going on....and I say that with confidence because if he were involved in some sordid plan, I highly doubt he would admit it to you, now or ever.

Saw you posted at the same time I was posting, Diaddie. The thing I can't figure out is how he could be innocent if his wife was convicted. It makes no sense.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Krikit, she was convicted of conspiring to commit immgration fraud, but not necessarily with THIS man. She may have been assisting other females in meeting alien men with whom they would marry. That is not to say that she didn't have an unlawful arrangement with this man, because it is highly possible (we are judged by the company we keep) but rather that it is possible that the case between the ex-wife and this man may have been more difficult for the agency to prove. In fact, as I stated above, there were purely ministerial procedures they could use to deny him privilege, that could prevent him from ever being successful.

Your husband might be completely innocent of the acts his ex-wife was clearly involved with. Then again, just maybe, he isn't. Only he knows what was really going on....and I say that with confidence because if he were involved in some sordid plan, I highly doubt he would admit it to you, now or ever.

Saw you posted at the same time I was posting, Diaddie. The thing I can't figure out is how he could be innocent if his wife was convicted. It makes no sense.

[Krikit 1,165]

Krikit, she was convicted of conspiring to commit immgration fraud, but not necessarily with THIS man. She may have been assisting other females in meeting alien men with whom they would marry. That is not to say that she didn't have an unlawful arrangement with this man, because it is highly possible (we are judged by the company we keep) but rather that it is possible that the case between the ex-wife and this man may have been more difficult for the agency to prove. In fact, as I stated above, there were purely ministerial procedures they could use to deny him privilege, that could prevent him from ever being successful.

Ohhhhhhh. Okay. That makes sense now. Thank you.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

My personal opinion, and I realize that this has no bearing on the outcome, is that he KNEW what was going on. There's no explanation for his choice to:

1. Bail out of the marriage before the case was decided

2. Not pursue other remedies available to him at the time

Me thinks he got cold feet and thought he'd lay low for a while until he thought of another route, hoping that the dust would clear.

Edited April 23, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[shemarienp 0]

She plead guilty to conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, and was given a slap on the wrist in exchange for providing the US Attorney substantial assistance.

If she plead guilty and your husband is the one she married and commited fraud with, then he is also guilty and that is why he was denied. It doesn't matter whether she lied or not..... she is guilty of fraud because that's what she plead. I'm rather confused as to why your husband wasn't deported, though. This whole thing isn't making much sense. Please let us know how things turn out for you. We wish you all the best no matter what happens.

Perhaps she plead guilty, but that does not make him automatically guilty. I could see that had she provided something OTHER THAN her lousy, drug addled word, but she didn't. We're talking about a drug addict whose lifestyle was dishonesty. Hence why he would not necessarily have been deported. Her intentions were not necessarily his intentions, and she provided NO physical evidence. Had she done so, I'm sure something would have happened to him, but as it is, he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

[Krikit 1,165]

Perhaps she plead guilty, but that does not make him automatically guilty. I could see that had she provided something OTHER THAN her lousy, drug addled word, but she didn't. We're talking about a drug addict whose lifestyle was dishonesty. Hence why he would not necessarily have been deported. Her intentions were not necessarily his intentions, and she provided NO physical evidence. Had she done so, I'm sure something would have happened to him, but as it is, he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

It's okay, shemarie. Diaddie helped clear up my confusion.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Well, she provided motive, if nothing else. She was a drug addict for whom money would clearly come in handy. The fact that there wasn't hard evidence meant that he escaped the "criminal hatchet" but not the "immigration hatchet".

She plead guilty to conspiracy to commit marriage fraud, and was given a slap on the wrist in exchange for providing the US Attorney substantial assistance.

If she plead guilty and your husband is the one she married and commited fraud with, then he is also guilty and that is why he was denied. It doesn't matter whether she lied or not..... she is guilty of fraud because that's what she plead. I'm rather confused as to why your husband wasn't deported, though. This whole thing isn't making much sense. Please let us know how things turn out for you. We wish you all the best no matter what happens.

Perhaps she plead guilty, but that does not make him automatically guilty. I could see that had she provided something OTHER THAN her lousy, drug addled word, but she didn't. We're talking about a drug addict whose lifestyle was dishonesty. Hence why he would not necessarily have been deported. Her intentions were not necessarily his intentions, and she provided NO physical evidence. Had she done so, I'm sure something would have happened to him, but as it is, he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

[jpaula 20]

I just want to say that immigration is far, far too regulated. For God's sake, we really need to have this much control over people who come here seeking a better life? This is ridiculous. Quite frankly, it's NONE of the government's business whom I marry or for what purpose. We really need to put this much effort, time, and money into keeping immigrants out? When our birth rate is starting to fall? Why? The only thing we should be concerned with is whether someone has a criminal record and can support themselves here in the US. Other than that, who firetruckin' cares?

Without agreeing or disagreeing, as someone who has been through the unpleasant side of a (let's just call it) "complicated" immigration case and come out the other end, I recommend that you separate your ideas of how immigration should be from a clear understanding of how it is. There are many people who are working on smart immigration reform and you can focus some of that anger in a productive way by helping them. (Have a look at American Families United). But, for your own case, put this aside and focus on understanding the laws that apply to your case. You are going to have to know what the hoops are and jump through them. You are going to have to understand that in almost all of these cases the burden of proof is on the intending immigrant. You are going to have to make your husband understand that you need to know the details of his last marriage. You are going to have to understand that, while you have the right to marry whomever you choose, you have no inherent right to live in your country with him. You are going to have to understand that his past behavior, be it his first marriage or his being here without status, complicates things through some fault of his own. None of this means he is not a good man or a good husband to you. But, you will have a much better chance of getting through this, of being an effective advocate for your husband if you face it as factually and as knowledgeably as you can.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

he was never even questioned about it and had no idea she'd done time for it until we found out a week prior to the interview while researching.

What, exactly, were you researching one week prior to the interview that went so wrong? Did you have a premonition that it was not going to go well?

[shemarienp 0]

My personal opinion, and I realize that this has no bearing on the outcome, is that he KNEW what was going on. There's no explanation for his choice to:

1. Bail out of the marriage before the case was decided

2. Not pursue other remedies available to him at the time

Me thinks he got cold feet and thought he'd lay low for a while until he thought of another route, hoping that the dust would clear.

Or another explanation is that he was afraid that because they had the same last name, her illegal activities would come to haunt him too. He didn't even move out of the home they shared for a WHILE after she had left him. He didn't try to hide from anyone. The FBI knew where he lived and always knew that. And now immigration had him at their offices - no detention, no nothing.

Another explanation for not pursuing other remedies - how about being depressed at the demise of his marriage?

I do not understand why the holy heck so many people assume the government was right on this when they get so much stuff WRONG all the dang time? The government is run by human beings, who are very fallible. So why do so many people just believe that the government is right? This all happened right after 9/11, and surprise, surprise, they took the word of a jailed drug addict and pronounced a Muslim guilty. He should have faced this long ago, but he didn't, and that's the reality, unfortunately.

Without agreeing or disagreeing, as someone who has been through the unpleasant side of a (let's just call it) "complicated" immigration case and come out the other end, I recommend that you separate your ideas of how immigration should be from a clear understanding of how it is. There are many people who are working on smart immigration reform and you can focus some of that anger in a productive way by helping them. (Have a look at American Families United). But, for your own case, put this aside and focus on understanding the laws that apply to your case. You are going to have to know what the hoops are and jump through them. You are going to have to understand that in almost all of these cases the burden of proof is on the intending immigrant. You are going to have to make your husband understand that you need to know the details of his last marriage. You are going to have to understand that, while you have the right to marry whomever you choose, you have no inherent right to live in your country with him. You are going to have to understand that his past behavior, be it his first marriage or his being here without status, complicates things through some fault of his own. None of this means he is not a good man or a good husband to you. But, you will have a much better chance of getting through this, of being an effective advocate for your husband if you face it as factually and as knowledgeably as you can.

I'm aware of this. Although on this internet bulletin board I am venting, I do understand the difference between how things ought to be and how they are.

Edited April 23, 2009 by shemarienp

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Oh, please!!

He was bloody married to her, it didn't matter what his last name was. Why is it impossible for you to see reality?

In your first post you said he left her, divorced her because he was tired of her criminal ways....now he is pining the demise of his marriage?

I am not saying he hid from anyone. Didn't you read my post? It's quite possible that even if they did suspect him, the agency didn't need to come after him, they had him at every next turn. Checkmate!

My personal opinion, and I realize that this has no bearing on the outcome, is that he KNEW what was going on. There's no explanation for his choice to:

1. Bail out of the marriage before the case was decided

2. Not pursue other remedies available to him at the time

Me thinks he got cold feet and thought he'd lay low for a while until he thought of another route, hoping that the dust would clear.

Or another explanation is that he was afraid that because they had the same last name, her illegal activities would come to haunt him too. He didn't even move out of the home they shared for a WHILE after she had left him. He didn't try to hide from anyone. The FBI knew where he lived and always knew that. And now immigration had him at their offices - no detention, no nothing.

Another explanation for not pursuing other remedies - how about being depressed at the demise of his marriage?

I do not understand why the holy heck so many people assume the government was right on this when they get so much stuff WRONG all the dang time? The government is run by human beings, who are very fallible. So why do so many people just believe that the government is right? This all happened right after 9/11, and surprise, surprise, they took the word of a jailed drug addict and pronounced a Muslim guilty.

Edited April 23, 2009 by diadromous mermaid