Less Harassment When Crossing By Land or Air???

[trailmix 77]

Now tell me... how is being Jewish any more relevant than someone being black? The answer is it's not. So if one is allowed, without fear of reprisal, the other must be allowed as well. Anything else would be discriminatory.

Like Jill, I too don't feel like getting in to an argument about this.

Deadpool, you are over simplifying. Also, you did not mention in the thread where the Jewish person(s) were mentioned that some people did object to that as well - so you simply cannot say that one is allowed without fear of reprisal. So did you miss that part of the thread or are you just glossing over that fact to support your argument?

Also, your previous comment, about becoming overly politically correct so as not to be able to form an opinion. Again - you over simplify. I am not overly politically correct, I do however hope that I have a good sense of right and wrong.

[Caladan 19]

"The only real racism is against white men" is such a tired trope. Context matters a lot, and if we lived in a society where "scary white guy" was a common stereotype and rhetorical trope, it would have the same resonance as "scary black man", but we don't, so it doesn't. Likewise, who is doing the uttering matters a lot (you can compliment your wife in a way her boss can't), as well as the intention with it is uttered (hence why if I playfully call my sister a dork she'll take it differently than if a girl she doesn't get along with calls her a dork.)

That said, I don't think Rhiann's original comment was doing anything more than providing a description of the border patrol guy, who can be scary for lots of reasons, and things spiraled from there.

[CDAgirlMI 51]

[Not necessarily. If Rhiann was black, she might have said she dealt with a "scary white guy." The truly racist thing about that is a black man or woman could have said such and not received criticism. If a white man or woman says something similar, all hell breaks loose.

+1 .

I wasn't going to respond after this thread got on the topic of racism..it's beyond me why it went this far.....

But I have to agree with DPX...people only make a deal of it when refferring to "colored" people (is "colored" ok????). Nobody says anything when talking about a white person. IMO.

[AddyG 0]

I have gone through numerous times before we were engaged and never had any issues. I had a full time job then and a lease on an apt but I never had any proof. I was always going on climbing trips so they never did ask me any of the extra questions about who I was meeting. (My husband and I both climb). Even when we were engaged I never was questioned enough to have to say the word "fiance" which starts the red flags! I was always lucky to be with people in a car or travelling to meet my fiance somewhere to climb so it never came out. I would of course told them the truth had they asked me.

Since we got married, I have been pulled into secondary and questioned. They try to intimidate me but I have all my paperwork with me and a spreadsheet of every visit back and forth that my boyfriend/fiancé/now husband have made with dates because they always ask me these questions - details about length of visits and when where my last few visits. It is frustrating but I always allowed extra time knowing that they would want me to go to secondary and I never took it personally. They are just doing their job.

My husband has been pulled into secondary as well when he has come to visit because the Canadians want to know he is leaving too and not going to remain in Canada. He now takes proof that we have done all the immigration paperwork for me to go the other way and they hassle him less.

The most recent crossing for me was by car. It seems when I travel alone in an airport they always ask more questions plus they make you fill out the address where you will be staying and therefore ask the story about how you know people or whose address it is - since you can't lie you have to say "my in-laws" or "my husband" and that is when things get complicated. When I crossed in a car they did not ask me anything about relatives or ties. I was coming again to go on a climbing trip and the lady was more interested in what type of climbing and whether it was safe and whether we were any good. Of course, it seems easier to enter with other people than when you travel alone!

My friend visits her husband all the time and has her mom drive her to Buffalo to fly. They have never asked her anything other than have you done any paperwork yet? They did not want to see anything.

So I would say it's WAY easier to cross at a LAND BORDER in a car than an AIRPORT, but that is just my experience.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

[Not necessarily. If Rhiann was black, she might have said she dealt with a "scary white guy." The truly racist thing about that is a black man or woman could have said such and not received criticism. If a white man or woman says something similar, all hell breaks loose.

+1 .

I wasn't going to respond after this thread got on the topic of racism..it's beyond me why it went this far.....

But I have to agree with DPX...people only make a deal of it when refferring to "colored" people (is "colored" ok????). Nobody says anything when talking about a white person. IMO.

Coloured is not okay by today's standards- unfortunately harks back to civil right era and before - was an acceptable term then 'for some'.

[thetreble 19]

Seeing fit to add that the border person was Jewish, Muslim, an immigrant, a transvestite or any other commonly maligned group would have been equally questionable.

~ Catherine

I really don't want to get back into something I wrote a few weeks ago. However, my post was really about stereotypes that in my opinion seemed to be playing true in my case. Whether people like to believe it or not, there are some truth to SOME stereotypes or else they wouldn't have been derived. Much like there is some truth in many lies people tell. I guess it all depends on how you perceive things. I don't think it makes me a bad person but again, I'm sure many would state otherwise.

For example, since I've been in New Jersey, many people have told me that Jewish women tend to be extremely catty. My boss is extremely and unnecessarily catty to the point where she shares negative things about people out loud, in front of other people in our office and it is so offensive. The other day she said out loud to everyone, "I don't think so-in-so is going to get re-hired. They are so disappointed with the way he's working. I'm not surprised either." Completely inappropriate. So, maybe it is not a stereotype but moreover, a cultural environment in which women like my boss are raised. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I say the expression, "it is what it is..."quite a bit.

Any way, I'm not going any more into it. It's pointless.

[Not necessarily. If Rhiann was black, she might have said she dealt with a "scary white guy." The truly racist thing about that is a black man or woman could have said such and not received criticism. If a white man or woman says something similar, all hell breaks loose.

+1 .

I wasn't going to respond after this thread got on the topic of racism..it's beyond me why it went this far.....

But I have to agree with DPX...people only make a deal of it when refferring to "colored" people (is "colored" ok????). Nobody says anything when talking about a white person. IMO.

Coloured is not okay by today's standards- unfortunately harks back to civil right era and before - was an acceptable term then 'for some'.

Coloured is an old European word that many Canadians say, (including myself once upon a time), because my parents say it. My parents thought saying BLACK was offense so they said coloured.

Well, it's not appropriate anymore by todays standard. If you say coloured, you are going to get yourself into a lot of trouble. I said it once when I first met Jared and he looked at me, quietly corrected me and sternly said "never say that again"

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Seeing fit to add that the border person was Jewish, Muslim, an immigrant, a transvestite or any other commonly maligned group would have been equally questionable.

~ Catherine

I really don't want to get back into something I wrote a few weeks ago. However, my post was really about stereotypes that in my opinion seemed to be playing true in my case. Whether people like to believe it or not, there are some truth to SOME stereotypes or else they wouldn't have been derived. Much like there is some truth in many lies people tell. I guess it all depends on how you perceive things. I don't think it makes me a bad person but again, I'm sure many would state otherwise.

For example, since I've been in New Jersey, many people have told me that Jewish women tend to be extremely catty. My boss is extremely and unnecessarily catty to the point where she shares negative things about people out loud, in front of other people in our office and it is so offensive. The other day she said out loud to everyone, "I don't think so-in-so is going to get re-hired. They are so disappointed with the way he's working. I'm not surprised either." Completely inappropriate. So, maybe it is not a stereotype but moreover, a cultural environment in which women like my boss are raised. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I say the expression, "it is what it is..."quite a bit.

Any way, I'm not going any more into it. It's pointless.

[Not necessarily. If Rhiann was black, she might have said she dealt with a "scary white guy." The truly racist thing about that is a black man or woman could have said such and not received criticism. If a white man or woman says something similar, all hell breaks loose.

+1 .

I wasn't going to respond after this thread got on the topic of racism..it's beyond me why it went this far.....

But I have to agree with DPX...people only make a deal of it when refferring to "colored" people (is "colored" ok????). Nobody says anything when talking about a white person. IMO.

Coloured is not okay by today's standards- unfortunately harks back to civil right era and before - was an acceptable term then 'for some'.

Coloured is an old European word that many Canadians say, (including myself once upon a time), because my parents say it. My parents thought saying BLACK was offense so they said coloured.

Well, it's not appropriate anymore by todays standard. If you say coloured, you are going to get yourself into a lot of trouble. I said it once when I first met Jared and he looked at me, quietly corrected me and sternly said "never say that again"

Wow. I actually was very surprised right now when you said that.....it seems like a common knowledge thing to me....We had to help my grandma out in that respect - like you said, the older crowd doesn't know it's not cool. My dad still says 'oriental'...hard to break him of the habit.

On the whole...I have noticed that white people seem to be the last to know.....and I'm white so don't send me hate mail We can be very insensitive...I've corrected a number of people over the years who just didn't know.....but I find it has a lot to do with who you hang with and what your community makeup is.

[AddyG 0]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about border crossings???

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Guilty as charged.i think we have managed to highjacked it

[trailmix 77]

For example, since I've been in New Jersey, many people have told me that Jewish women tend to be extremely catty. My boss is extremely and unnecessarily catty to the point where she shares negative things about people out loud, in front of other people in our office and it is so offensive. The other day she said out loud to everyone, "I don't think so-in-so is going to get re-hired. They are so disappointed with the way he's working. I'm not surprised either." Completely inappropriate. So, maybe it is not a stereotype but moreover, a cultural environment in which women like my boss are raised. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I say the expression, "it is what it is..."quite a bit.

Any way, I'm not going any more into it. It's pointless.

I understand what you are saying Amanda. I also understand your wanting to leave this alone, it's a volatile subject for sure.

When I read what you just said though I asked myself, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? I don't know any Jewish people, male or female. I have never known any Jewish people. Have I met a lot of catty women (and men) absolutely I have - have I worked with a lot of catty men and women - yes.

So if I lived in an area with predominately Jewish people - or even an area with a larger than average population of Jewish people - might I buy in to that stereotype? Hmm, probably not - but I do see how it could come about.

Oh and was this thread hijacked - 100% yes

Edited April 16, 2009 by trailmix

[DeadPoolX 9]

I was going to respond here, but then I realized that this isn't OT and as someone else said, we've managed to completely hijack this thread.

[Rhiannercakes 14]

To to Original Poster:

I'm so sorry my comment about someone I dealt with at the border totally 100% hijacked your topic.

I didn't think something like this would happen.

[thetreble 19]

I also apologize. Back to subject.

[warlord 73]

Never had any issues comming back to the US on my TN Status when I had it. Never had anything with my Green Card when I came back into the US either.

The first time I came back to the US from Canada using my US passport as a citizen, I acutally got questioned about a ton of stuff like where I work, how long have I been employed there, what's in my trunk, open the trunk, search the trunk etc. I was like holy ####### I'm a freaking citizen.

So out of the 2 times going outside the US with my passport, comming back from Mexico was nothing, but driving my rental from Canada to Detroit was the most I've been questioned since actually visiting the US back in the day when I lived in Canada...

[TdotGirl 0]

OMGoodness!!!

I cannot believe what has happened to this thread (I just, only now, have had the chance to read through everything)!

Personally, when I have crossed the border I have had both big scary white men and small scary black men harass and interrogate me - and I'm a mixture of both races (you would think I would get a break somewhere, right?), lol!

Anyway..getting back to the topic...

The reason why I was flagged is NOW a funny story ('cause Lord knows it was traumatizing for a long time):

Back in 2007, I was able to have time off from work and decided to spend it with my beau (2 months). I was naive and ignorant to how US visits really worked (my way of thinking used to be: "I'm Canadian, so what's the problem"). So, my honey came to pick me up in a US rental (I know, I know). I decided to pack A LOT of stuff, brought no ties, and no return ticket because I was unsure of the departure date and what form of transit I would be taking (Again, I know, I know - just didn't know at the time.. Remember: Naive Canadian mentality, lol).

Basically... I was treated like a criminal - was fingerprinted, had pictures taken and was refused. We drove back to Toronto, got all my ties together and attempted to cross at 1:30am - was interrogated AGAIN (asking me ####### like why did I bring my documents of evidence with me.. because you told me to IDIOTS) and then finally let through.

Ever since that day, they have continued to treat me like $#!^ (even though I show them all of my documents); although, let me give them some credit, there were a couple of times where they were actually friendly, made jokes and did not give me a hard time.

But, otherwise, it's been emotionally straining - I've learned to deal with it over time and since finding this website I totally do NOT take it personal anymore.

But it has been awhile, so just wanted to get some valuable opinions and mentally prep myself.

So thanks to everyone who responded appropriately

As far as the first comment Rhiann made - I was not offended by that at all, to be quite honest. Was it irrelevant? Most definitely but I find myself doing the same thing (stating irrelevant descriptions) from time to time (just keeping it real), like DeadPoolX said, "it was simply a description. It's not like she said anything racist or derogatory."

HOWEVER...

It was Rhiann's latter comments which raised my left eyebrow - seemed very sketchy.

But yah...anyway - let's all keep the peace, have respect for everyone and stick to the topic