If a baby is born with every human right possible then...

[SpiritAlight 1]

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

And anyway...who decides what rights we are "born" with? I'm not saying we aren't born with these rights, just asking!! That's the point of these documents in my opinion. Unless we have an idea of what rights are innate, how can those rights be protected?

ding ding ding!!!

Here's what I was trying to get at.

Thank you MD.

I'm digging at life before our current "civilization" and all of its atrocities....before we became (misused) "civilized".

Yes, say it: I'm weird.

I accept that.

Now on to read and reply to more interesting reponses.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Your premise is wrong. Babies are born with nothing.

Yeah, i'm going to have to agree on this one... though the question is interesting to think about.

i think a lot of it depends on geography, culture, gender, etc...

a baby girl born in a dust hovel outside of Darfur will not have the same rights as a baby boy born in Beijing. and it might not have anything to do with a nation's constitution or legal system... that's just the way it is. It's great to think that everyone is born free and equal... and really they should be... but i don't think it's like that.

also, keep in mind that in most countries around the globe, children have little rights at all. most children are still "seen and not heard."

Dear AZ, you touch on very true and horrid realities.

And I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it all go away...sigh.

Oh, in my dreams I do...

If we can agree to look at just those of us blessed enough to have been born in a "free country" and with shelter and food – although I wish to speak of all human beings.

Look at nature....at animals.

They know their place.

They do not worry about tomorrow.

They do not need written rules, nor carry maps, etc.

(Know where I'm going with this?)

They live as well as possible and are a part of the natural laws which are the only true laws.

If we all looked at animals more closely, we would get how silly we all are.

That we put so much importance on such trivial things.

Even things such as which religion is best (mine mine mine, hahaha), which clothes to wear (designer labels for some, no-name for others), what school to go to (oouu la la,,, you went to Oxford, you say?? hee, hee), etc etc.

I'm poking slight fun to make a point.

If an animal worried about such things it would not survive.

How do we then?

We rationalize it all; some of us better than others.

Weren't we meant to play, love, and live?

Please do not simply wave your hands at this and sweep it under some "hippie" rug.

It isn't meant like that.

How much more could you play, laugh, love?

Some of us are so deep in "our story" that we cannot see the forest for the trees....or the ocean for the drops of water. Ha!

Well, am I digging a deeper hole for myself?

Am I making any sense?

I will reread this later and try again.

Thanks for your patience all of you.

I'm trying to get at something big here.

[SpiritAlight 1]

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

And anyway...who decides what rights we are "born" with? I'm not saying we aren't born with these rights, just asking!! That's the point of these documents in my opinion. Unless we have an idea of what rights are innate, how can those rights be protected?

According to the US Declaration of Independence, the rights come from the Creator.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Not everyone believes in a creator, and of those who do believe, there isn't universal agreement as to the characteristics of such a being, so it's not surprising that we don't have universal agreement about exactly what rights humans naturally have.

It's also worth noting that very few rights can be exercised absolutely without at least slightly infringing upon the rights of others. I may have the right to swing my arms around, but not if I would strike and injure someone else nearby. Many interesting and complex legal and ethical dilemmas happen as a result of one person's ostensible right to do "A" conflicting with another person's ostensible right to do "B". In fact, I think many, perhaps most, laws can be viewed as attempts to define the limits of people's rights to interfere with other people's rights.

This is really good, Lucyrich.

Thank you.

I realize that in a perfect world no one would be interested in harming another for personal gain, nor for any reason.

Hmmm...what to think of this....

As for "the creator", if we go back to thinking about animals, they have a creator too then.

And who governs them: only the laws of nature.

The true laws.

They do not have a leader per se, and do not need one.

We all believe we have found ourselves on this Earth for some reason or other, or there would be mass suicide...whether you are religious or not.

Now to leave a good mark/legacy...that is the key.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They can as soon as they choose to.

Well, that's just not true. A baby (or child, or adult, or whatever) cannot just vote whenever they choose to. They have to be a certain age, not have a certain criminal background, ect and a baby (or child) cannot have sex whenever they choose to either, legally. Which goes back to your point that things like constitutions take rights away.

However, I don't think that constitutions take human rights away always. The goal of a constitution is to establish what is a right and what is not. Are we born with the ability to know what is a right and what is not? I don't think so.

I realize I am the eternal idealist.

And I am in no way trying to make fun of anything or any country.

Not my intention.

My idea, my musing is this: written rules/rights/constitutions would be unnecessary if people just realized that they are a free and natural person...up until the time they buy into the limitations imposed by (enter organization here).

'I am not a number!"

(us older folks will know this one)

Dive deeper.

I agree...we all certain inalienable rights that cannot or should not ever be taken away from us by anyone.

[mawilson 2,133]

According to the US Declaration of Independence, the rights come from the Creator.

So when we start cloning people, the clones' rights will come from the lab technician?

[Amby 490]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

[Sofiyya 1,687]

...things like constitutions and written rights are there to limit and/or take away her/his rights.

Comments?

(yes, always in a pensive mood...)

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

The Constitution enumerates our rights. It is up to a vigilant population to make sure they are respected by the government.

[mawilson 2,133]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

Have you seen Forbidden Science on Cinemax After-Dark?

[Amby 490]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

Have you seen Forbidden Science on Cinemax After-Dark?

Is this something you think I would enjoy?

[mawilson 2,133]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

Have you seen Forbidden Science on Cinemax After-Dark?

Is this something you think I would enjoy?

It's about cloning with lots of sex

[Amby 490]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

Have you seen Forbidden Science on Cinemax After-Dark?

Is this something you think I would enjoy?

It's about cloning with lots of sex

Well that answers my question then. Will put that one on my DVR list.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Babies dont even have the right to be born.

[Amby 490]

boohoo

[lucyrich 20]

...things like constitutions and written rights are there to limit and/or take away her/his rights.

Comments?

(yes, always in a pensive mood...)

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

The Constitution enumerates our rights. It is up to a vigilant population to make sure they are respected by the government.

The US Constitution only enumerates some of our rights, and it specifically says that other rights not mentioned in the Constitution are retained by the people. See the ninth and tenth Amendments.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/co...tml#amendmentix

[one...two...tree 2,762]

have you guys seen babylon AD? cloning is possible in the wonderful USA in that movie

Have you seen Forbidden Science on Cinemax After-Dark?

Yes. It's not as good as Bikini Pirates of the Caribbean.