If a baby is born with every human right possible then...

[SpiritAlight 1]

...things like constitutions and written rights are there to limit and/or take away her/his rights.

Comments?

(yes, always in a pensive mood...)

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Your premise is wrong. Babies are born with nothing.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Your premise is wrong. Babies are born with nothing.

Yes, completely free, open to all possibilities!

No programming, no catagorizing, no serial numbering (bah!), etc etc etc.

:star:

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They're aren't born with every "legal" right. The baby can't vote, drink, join the army, get an f/t job, have sex or drive a car.

[SpiritAlight 1]

They can as soon as they choose to.

A lot of that is useless anyways. Ha!

[The_Dude 1,142]

They can as soon as they choose to.

A lot of that is useless anyways. Ha!

I "Chose" to drive my uncles car when I was 12. The officer who pulled me over and turned me back over to my uncle didn't think I had that right

[Marina-Del 10]

They can as soon as they choose to.

Well, that's just not true. A baby (or child, or adult, or whatever) cannot just vote whenever they choose to. They have to be a certain age, not have a certain criminal background, ect and a baby (or child) cannot have sex whenever they choose to either, legally. Which goes back to your point that things like constitutions take rights away.

However, I don't think that constitutions take human rights away always. The goal of a constitution is to establish what is a right and what is not. Are we born with the ability to know what is a right and what is not? I don't think so.

[SpiritAlight 1]

They can as soon as they choose to.

A lot of that is useless anyways. Ha!

I "Chose" to drive my uncles car when I was 12. The officer who pulled me over and turned me back over to my uncle didn't think I had that right

[SpiritAlight 1]

They can as soon as they choose to.

Well, that's just not true. A baby (or child, or adult, or whatever) cannot just vote whenever they choose to. They have to be a certain age, not have a certain criminal background, ect and a baby (or child) cannot have sex whenever they choose to either, legally. Which goes back to your point that things like constitutions take rights away.

However, I don't think that constitutions take human rights away always. The goal of a constitution is to establish what is a right and what is not. Are we born with the ability to know what is a right and what is not? I don't think so.

I realize I am the eternal idealist.

And I am in no way trying to make fun of anything or any country.

Not my intention.

My idea, my musing is this: written rules/rights/constitutions would be unnecessary if people just realized that they are a free and natural person...up until the time they buy into the limitations imposed by (enter organization here).

'I am not a number!"

(us older folks will know this one)

Dive deeper.

Edited April 14, 2009 by SpiritAlight

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

...things like constitutions and written rights are there to limit and/or take away her/his rights.

Comments?

(yes, always in a pensive mood...)

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

[Marina-Del 10]

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

And anyway...who decides what rights we are "born" with? I'm not saying we aren't born with these rights, just asking!! That's the point of these documents in my opinion. Unless we have an idea of what rights are innate, how can those rights be protected?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They can as soon as they choose to.

Well, that's just not true. A baby (or child, or adult, or whatever) cannot just vote whenever they choose to. They have to be a certain age, not have a certain criminal background, ect and a baby (or child) cannot have sex whenever they choose to either, legally. Which goes back to your point that things like constitutions take rights away.

However, I don't think that constitutions take human rights away always. The goal of a constitution is to establish what is a right and what is not. Are we born with the ability to know what is a right and what is not? I don't think so.

I realize I am the eternal idealist.

And I am in no way trying to make fun of anything or any country.

Not my intention.

My idea, my musing is this: written rules/rights/constitutions would be unnecessary if people just realized that they are a free and natural person...up until the time they buy into the limitations imposed by (enter organization here).

'I am not a number!"

(us older folks will know this one)

Dive deeper.

Hurrah a Prisoner reference! Patrick McGoohan - FTW!

Edited April 14, 2009 by Private Pike

[AlHayatZween 2]

Your premise is wrong. Babies are born with nothing.

Yeah, i'm going to have to agree on this one... though the question is interesting to think about.

i think a lot of it depends on geography, culture, gender, etc...

a baby girl born in a dust hovel outside of Darfur will not have the same rights as a baby boy born in Beijing. and it might not have anything to do with a nation's constitution or legal system... that's just the way it is. It's great to think that everyone is born free and equal... and really they should be... but i don't think it's like that.

also, keep in mind that in most countries around the globe, children have little rights at all. most children are still "seen and not heard."

[lucyrich 20]

No. The bill of rights, added to our constituion prior to it being ratified, specifically protects rights from government. It is eapressed limits on governent power and therefore protects the rights we are born with.

And anyway...who decides what rights we are "born" with? I'm not saying we aren't born with these rights, just asking!! That's the point of these documents in my opinion. Unless we have an idea of what rights are innate, how can those rights be protected?

According to the US Declaration of Independence, the rights come from the Creator.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Not everyone believes in a creator, and of those who do believe, there isn't universal agreement as to the characteristics of such a being, so it's not surprising that we don't have universal agreement about exactly what rights humans naturally have.

It's also worth noting that very few rights can be exercised absolutely without at least slightly infringing upon the rights of others. I may have the right to swing my arms around, but not if I would strike and injure someone else nearby. Many interesting and complex legal and ethical dilemmas happen as a result of one person's ostensible right to do "A" conflicting with another person's ostensible right to do "B". In fact, I think many, perhaps most, laws can be viewed as attempts to define the limits of people's rights to interfere with other people's rights.

[lucyrich 20]

Your premise is wrong. Babies are born with nothing.

Not exactly nothing. They have the legal and moral right to reasonable care and freedom from violence, among other things. If a parent allows a newborn to fend for itself regarding food and shelter, the law will charge the parent with neglect, endangerment, or a similar crime. If a parent or stranger actively becomes physically violent with an infant, a serious crime will be charged.