Tuesday

[Ihavequestions 419]

Abuse?

Jill herself says she's frightened, because of the language barrier, to go outside by herself because she worries she won't be able to help herself if there's a problem.

That's her decision. Nobody else's. When we make our own decisions, we are neither "subservient" or "abused." It's quite the opposite, actually.

It's pretty smart, if you ask me. It's preventative.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I think it's just part of being responsible to each other to let the other know where you're going. If Waleed wanted to go out with his friends at night and not include me he just has to say where he's going and when he's coming back. I expect to do the same and not be kept on a short leash. I mean I have school to attend and probably study groups. I can't be having a Husband telling me no you can't go outside on your own. I wouldn't be a very happy wife if he didn't listen to what I wanted too. At that point I wouldn't argue I'd just leave him when I got the chance because I'm not putting up with that.

[Ihavequestions 419]

I'm not putting up with that.

I won't - and don't - either. But that's just me.

[S and S 12]

I'm assuming that she can't go out at all without him since she stated the SILs can't go out without their husbands either. Or maybe they can't go out without a male escort? I don't see anything wrong with a group of women going out to shop or whatever. Like I said before my SILs and I did and not one man tried to bother us. I can see him not wanting her to go out alone because of the language or harrasment but to not be able to go out period without a male escort or him is really extreme.

I'm just concerned about the wording..."unless we call him and ask if it's ok" Sounds Not Without My Daughter-ish.

Ok , let me clear things up a bit here lol...

I can go outside, yes!... alone..no!.... I can go outside with his sister in laws, or anyone that speaks arabic... that is not the problem... the problem im having is.... he doesnt seem to want to let me be free.... there is a grocery store 10 ft from my apartment building, and he doesnt like me going there alone... I said why not? he said because people might bother you outside, and I dont want u to encounter any problems here Jill...

personally, I think hes afraid maybe I will go outside and find another man to fall in love with, I mean that may not be the case at all, thats just kind of what my gut tells me... like he doesnt want to lose me to someone else..

because I see myself. no other reason why I couldnt go to that store and come right back.

as far as the calling the hubby's to tell them we r going outside, oh yes! ... none of the girls in this family just go outside freely... they all must call and tell their husbands where they r going and what time they r coming back... my husband's sister's do the same. that is how this family was raised I suppose.

My husband was the same way when I was in Syria. He didn't like me to go out alone. Even before he came here, I always had to tell him where I was going, how long I would be gone, who I would be with, etc. I worried it may get worse after he got here, but actually it got much better. He saw the different lifestyle here and adjusted. I still inform him of my whereabouts, call him at lunch and when I'm coming home, but it isn't suppressive. I know many American women who do the same. Usually if I go out after work then he comes with me, but I have no problem with that. There is nothing abusive about it. You said that your husband will let you go out with his relatives, if this is the case then he isn't totally controlling. Also, I've had friends who traveled through the middle east on their own, particularly Egypt. They admitted to harrassment because no men were with them so this is a real possibility if you go out alone. I think so long as you make sure he understands the differences and work things out for how it will be in America, you should be fine. This is just my opinion though, I could be wrong, every situation is different.

[ya falaha! 0]

Look at what she says exactly. Look at the words she's using. She's "not allowed to go out"...come on. Not allowed and you're grown? If she said, I'm afraid to go out because of the language barrier or possible harrasment or I might get lost then fine. But she didn't say that. She said she's not "allowed" to go out unless she gets "permission". She also used the word "punished". It doesn't sound like she has much of a choice in the matter. He's making her decisions for her. That is abusive if you ask me. Preventative maybe if that means she'll prevent him from flipping out if she decides to go out without "permission".

ETA...I mean go out alone.

Abuse?

Jill herself says she's frightened, because of the language barrier, to go outside by herself because she worries she won't be able to help herself if there's a problem.

That's her decision. Nobody else's. When we make our own decisions, we are neither "subservient" or "abused." It's quite the opposite, actually.

It's pretty smart, if you ask me. It's preventative.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Astarte

[Nagishkaw 510]

Exactly as I read it, too.

[ya falaha! 0]

Too late to edit...I think some of you are misunderstanding the point of the word "abuse". Abuse isn't being afraid to go out alone, abuse isn't having your husband tag along for outings. The abusive part is not being "allowed" to do things and fearing "punishment" of some kind if you don't obey. The punishment can be anything from getting screamed at, physically abused or locked up. It doesn't sound like Jill wants to find out what kind of backlash she may experience if she disobeys. Now that is scary.

Hey maybe I'm overreacting but if anyone told me I'm not "allowed" to go out without "permission" I'd be frightened.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I'm assuming that she can't go out at all without him since she stated the SILs can't go out without their husbands either. Or maybe they can't go out without a male escort? I don't see anything wrong with a group of women going out to shop or whatever. Like I said before my SILs and I did and not one man tried to bother us. I can see him not wanting her to go out alone because of the language or harrasment but to not be able to go out period without a male escort or him is really extreme.

I'm just concerned about the wording..."unless we call him and ask if it's ok" Sounds Not Without My Daughter-ish.

Ok , let me clear things up a bit here lol...

I can go outside, yes!... alone..no!.... I can go outside with his sister in laws, or anyone that speaks arabic... that is not the problem... the problem im having is.... he doesnt seem to want to let me be free.... there is a grocery store 10 ft from my apartment building, and he doesnt like me going there alone... I said why not? he said because people might bother you outside, and I dont want u to encounter any problems here Jill...

personally, I think hes afraid maybe I will go outside and find another man to fall in love with, I mean that may not be the case at all, thats just kind of what my gut tells me... like he doesnt want to lose me to someone else..

because I see myself. no other reason why I couldnt go to that store and come right back.

as far as the calling the hubby's to tell them we r going outside, oh yes! ... none of the girls in this family just go outside freely... they all must call and tell their husbands where they r going and what time they r coming back... my husband's sister's do the same. that is how this family was raised I suppose.

My husband was the same way when I was in Syria. He didn't like me to go out alone. Even before he came here, I always had to tell him where I was going, how long I would be gone, who I would be with, etc. I worried it may get worse after he got here, but actually it got much better. He saw the different lifestyle here and adjusted. I still inform him of my whereabouts, call him at lunch and when I'm coming home, but it isn't suppressive. I know many American women who do the same. Usually if I go out after work then he comes with me, but I have no problem with that. There is nothing abusive about it. You said that your husband will let you go out with his relatives, if this is the case then he isn't totally controlling. Also, I've had friends who traveled through the middle east on their own, particularly Egypt. They admitted to harrassment because no men were with them so this is a real possibility if you go out alone. I think so long as you make sure he understands the differences and work things out for how it will be in America, you should be fine. This is just my opinion though, I could be wrong, every situation is different.

Harassment is true in these parts. I posted an article that showed 98% of all women in Egypt experience some form of male harassment on a daily basis. That is staggering numbers so I can understand the concern the SO's would should when it comes to their wives in these parts. I also posted another article that Egypt is trying to crack down on these embarrassments because of the outcry from women groups in Egypt. However, they only did it one day and they locked up around 300 guys. One of my study abroad advisors at the orientation last week came and spoke with me to tell me I could go out on my own no problem but that I would experience some form of harrassment probably. She studies in Jordan and Morocco and said she was spit on by a bus of guys in Jordan when she was crossing the street. She said she dressed modestly even but some of the sentiment there is not so great towards western women and to not take it personal. I don't know how I could not take it personal and call them dogs in the middle of the street at the top of my lungs.

[Aymsgirl 0]

I asked my husband about this last night. He said that his family is not like this but he has heard of it and seen it. He said if it's for her safety then so be it but if she informs her husband where she is then in his family they have no issues or problems with the women going out. He said some people especially from a certain area and I don't remember where he stated that they are more strict. That the women do not even come in the room where there are male guests or have to ask permission to pass by in the living room. He said it is very common for women to group together at each other's home to visit in his hometown. He said they have to go out to the store and run errands and if they are taking care of what needs to be taken care of in their home and the couple keeps each other informed of their whereabouts everything is ok.

As far as Jill, she's a smart gal. If this is the family norm and she has been there for 3 years she has to make her own decisions. We are all different and until we walk in a person's shoes we sometimes speculate on how we would react but may actually react very differently. A lot of us gals from America would think this is not the way we want to be treated and would show him our independence but she is dealing with it in her own way. Jill, I wish you the best of luck and I do hope that you can get out and enjoy EG a little more while you are there!

[Nagishkaw 510]

I don't know how I could not take it personal and call them dogs in the middle of the street at the top of my lungs.

Just call them zifty's, instead.

[PnA 0]

Look at what she says exactly. Look at the words she's using. She's "not allowed to go out"...come on. Not allowed and you're grown? If she said, I'm afraid to go out because of the language barrier or possible harrasment or I might get lost then fine. But she didn't say that. She said she's not "allowed" to go out unless she gets "permission". She also used the word "punished". It doesn't sound like she has much of a choice in the matter. He's making her decisions for her. That is abusive if you ask me. Preventative maybe if that means she'll prevent him from flipping out if she decides to go out without "permission".

ETA...I mean go out alone.

Abuse?

Jill herself says she's frightened, because of the language barrier, to go outside by herself because she worries she won't be able to help herself if there's a problem.

That's her decision. Nobody else's. When we make our own decisions, we are neither "subservient" or "abused." It's quite the opposite, actually.

It's pretty smart, if you ask me. It's preventative.

LOL.. you gotta love VJ huh

didn't mean to get u all ruffled up sweetie.... it's all GOOD here in Egypt Land !

My point was... through out all this thread was: I just wish that I had a little more freedom here.... how in the world did it get twisted up into ABUSE.. but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. I think I need to watch my EXACT words in future posting.

but Thanks for all ur input!

S and S .... thats pretty much my situation ... I shouldnt of posted I wasnt ALLOWED to go outside, ( wrong wording on my part) My husband would prefer me not to go outside without someone that speaks fluent arabic. Also, I don't live in a very good area, the people here are very poor, and it literally is like seeing a movie star when they see someone of another nationality.. and it attracts attention. I have had men come up to me , wanting my phone number, or asking me to marry them. My husband doesnt want me in that situation at all.

It's different when someone is just visiting here, and staying for 2 or 3 weeks, or even 2 or 3 months, I live here on a day to day basis... you don't think people talk that my husband is married to an american? and shes out running the streets.. what would they think of my husband if he just let me run around like I would in America? There are many other factors that play into all of this... but hey... we won't get into all of that.... anyway... thanks for understanding my situation :x

[PnA 0]

I don't know how I could not take it personal and call them dogs in the middle of the street at the top of my lungs.

Just call them zifty's, instead.

Your a bad girl LOL

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Ok what's a zifty?

[PnA 0]

I asked my husband about this last night. He said that his family is not like this but he has heard of it and seen it. He said if it's for her safety then so be it but if she informs her husband where she is then in his family they have no issues or problems with the women going out. He said some people especially from a certain area and I don't remember where he stated that they are more strict. That the women do not even come in the room where there are male guests or have to ask permission to pass by in the living room. He said it is very common for women to group together at each other's home to visit in his hometown. He said they have to go out to the store and run errands and if they are taking care of what needs to be taken care of in their home and the couple keeps each other informed of their whereabouts everything is ok.

As far as Jill, she's a smart gal. If this is the family norm and she has been there for 3 years she has to make her own decisions. We are all different and until we walk in a person's shoes we sometimes speculate on how we would react but may actually react very differently. A lot of us gals from America would think this is not the way we want to be treated and would show him our independence but she is dealing with it in her own way. Jill, I wish you the best of luck and I do hope that you can get out and enjoy EG a little more while you are there!

Your husband is 100% correct! My husband would have to answer to his brother's if he just let me run wild .. so to speak.. The brother's treat their wives the exact way I am treated... Im assuming its a family thing. and Yes Amy.. when men come over to my apartment, I have to stay in the other room, just as all the other women in my family do as well... I can't even see my husband's sister's husband... I am asked to please stay in the other room while he is at my apartment.

My husband comes from the country... not Alexandria... so his family is a bit more strict with freedoms for women.

Do I like it ? no.. but I love and respect my husband. and I would rather be here in Egypt ... unhappy about my lifestyle.. with him...

then Be in America, where I would be very happy with my lifestyle... without him. I have made that choice!

Ok what's a zifty?

LOL, zay zift.... means like Im having a bad day... Im not good today....

zift means khara LOL

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

khara? Is that a male part we can say on VJ?