Was I scammed

[rebeccajo 14]

When I was researching getting a K1 Visa in Bangkok and went to the Embassy, it was closed, but there was a man standing in front that said he worked for an agency across the street. Long story short, I ended up using this agency that is supposed to assist in getting a visa. It cost me a pretty penny... $1800 to be exact which I put on my credit card..... I thought they were saying $1800 Baht, but they were talking dollars.

In hindsight, I think I could have done everything they are doing, and saved a lot of money. But, it's too late I already paid them, and pretty much what they did so far, was fill out all the paperwork for me, which was 2 different forms, and put it in a package for me to send with a payment to Homeland Secuirty. I thought they would be submitting something in Thailand, but then I realized that the whole process starts here in the USA. I am reading people's timelines, and I see that it takes a good 4-6 months for the whole process, some longer.

I am about to submit the forms on April 13th.... I wish I had known that it was as simple as it was to fill out the forms, as I could have had this paperwork in February when I returned from Thailand to the states. Instead I waited for this agency to put it together for me, but it took a while for my fiancee to get all the appropriate documents, and then when I did get the package I was short on cash so I had to wait until I had $455 to send with the package.

My question is has anyone used one of these agencies? Do you think I was ripped off, knowing that I could do all this myself? I am not sure if having this agency will be useful later on in the process??

Yes, lots of people use them. They are called immigration attorneys in the USA. Why is it a scam when a Thai "agency" does it and not when an American attorney does? If you got what you agreed to pay for, what's the problem? It isn't a "scam", it is a service for a fee. Not much of a service, to be sure, and for less than many attorneys so, be happy.

If you hired an Americna attorney it would add to the process just the same, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to file this for you. Yeah, they can lick the stamp, but not without YOU providing all the documents and information to fill in the forms. The typical attorney gets you to fill out a K-1 "questionaire" which is really just all the information they need to fill in the forms. By the time you complete the questionaire, you could fill in the form yourself!

Agreiing to pay someone else a fee for that which you can do yourself is NOT a scam. Now if he took your money and disappeared...THAT's a scam. He is just a Thai attorney.

What if you ever need an immigration attorney, Gary?

How do you know you won't?

Hey, I was agreeing with you Rebeccajo! You once said I should expand my mind about this stuff, and lookie here! I did. I felt I was expanding my mind and thinking globally and all that. I said it was NOT a scam, just like when American attorneys charge the same for doing almost nothing. Gosh I try to defend attorneys by telling the truth about their legitimate business....and look what happens.

Well, still working on expanding

Agreeing with me? Just what exactly do you think it is I "recommend"?

I have to admire you Rebeccajo. You do not have it easy. I mean for me, a person that consideres imigration attorneys a couple notches below a tapeworm, it is easy. there is alwasys a "teachable moment" right around the next thread. Such as this wonderful OP asking if he was scammed to pay someone $1800 for filling out his I-129f and G-325a for him. And to think they did this right on street without the benefit of "banner ads".

They do not have to worry about repeat business, like say, a shady used car salesman. I mean how many people are going to be in need of an attorney for this...TWICE? Lure 'em in and KILL them first time around

But you keep plugging along, hoping one day for the "Gosh, I am so GLAD I hired the immigration attorney" thread.

What do you think of this? I think people who pay these fees should be able to write them off on their income tax. What do you think? Like a "moving expense". That way, the US congress can have some hearing about these fees and determine if they should be allowed to be deducted like other legitimate expenses. Hmmmm. Maybe a little congressional oversight of the fees charged by attorneys to process US Government visas would be to everyone's benefit. What do you think?

I have to admire you too, Gary. You keep plugging along looking for your 'teachable moments'. You're so committed to the cause. So committed in fact that - you didn't answer my question! Instead of answering, you wheel off on another tangent about tax deductions.

Unlike you however, I'll answer:

If the government wants to give me a tax deduction, I'm all for it. However, since for the last twenty years they've been taking away more deductions from the individual taxpayer than they've been creating, I don't think you've got much of a prayer. AND since they themselves tripled their own fees in 2007, well I don't think they would be terribly concerned.

Now back to what I asked you the first time (and I shall expand on my question in case it confused you the first time)- what exactly is it you think I recommend when it comes to the use of an attorney for immigration matters?

Sorry, but I DID answer. I was agreeing with you that attorneys, like the Thai Service, ARE NOT scams. They provide an unneeded service for an outrageous price, but it is willingly agreed to by the host organism.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or is it just me?

I think I asked you what you would do if you ever needed an immigration attorney. Instead of answering me you say you are agreeing with me. Agreeing with me about what? Apparently you are veering off to whatever it is you think I mean regarding the use of immigration attorneys. Therefore I asked you to expand upon what you think I mean, only because it seems to be your goal to pick fights about this issue....

Oh hell nevermind. You are so good at avoiding the issues you've even confused me......

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When I was researching getting a K1 Visa in Bangkok and went to the Embassy, it was closed, but there was a man standing in front that said he worked for an agency across the street. Long story short, I ended up using this agency that is supposed to assist in getting a visa. It cost me a pretty penny... $1800 to be exact which I put on my credit card..... I thought they were saying $1800 Baht, but they were talking dollars.

In hindsight, I think I could have done everything they are doing, and saved a lot of money. But, it's too late I already paid them, and pretty much what they did so far, was fill out all the paperwork for me, which was 2 different forms, and put it in a package for me to send with a payment to Homeland Secuirty. I thought they would be submitting something in Thailand, but then I realized that the whole process starts here in the USA. I am reading people's timelines, and I see that it takes a good 4-6 months for the whole process, some longer.

I am about to submit the forms on April 13th.... I wish I had known that it was as simple as it was to fill out the forms, as I could have had this paperwork in February when I returned from Thailand to the states. Instead I waited for this agency to put it together for me, but it took a while for my fiancee to get all the appropriate documents, and then when I did get the package I was short on cash so I had to wait until I had $455 to send with the package.

My question is has anyone used one of these agencies? Do you think I was ripped off, knowing that I could do all this myself? I am not sure if having this agency will be useful later on in the process??

Yes, lots of people use them. They are called immigration attorneys in the USA. Why is it a scam when a Thai "agency" does it and not when an American attorney does? If you got what you agreed to pay for, what's the problem? It isn't a "scam", it is a service for a fee. Not much of a service, to be sure, and for less than many attorneys so, be happy.

If you hired an Americna attorney it would add to the process just the same, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to file this for you. Yeah, they can lick the stamp, but not without YOU providing all the documents and information to fill in the forms. The typical attorney gets you to fill out a K-1 "questionaire" which is really just all the information they need to fill in the forms. By the time you complete the questionaire, you could fill in the form yourself!

Agreiing to pay someone else a fee for that which you can do yourself is NOT a scam. Now if he took your money and disappeared...THAT's a scam. He is just a Thai attorney.

What if you ever need an immigration attorney, Gary?

How do you know you won't?

Hey, I was agreeing with you Rebeccajo! You once said I should expand my mind about this stuff, and lookie here! I did. I felt I was expanding my mind and thinking globally and all that. I said it was NOT a scam, just like when American attorneys charge the same for doing almost nothing. Gosh I try to defend attorneys by telling the truth about their legitimate business....and look what happens.

Well, still working on expanding

Agreeing with me? Just what exactly do you think it is I "recommend"?

I have to admire you Rebeccajo. You do not have it easy. I mean for me, a person that consideres imigration attorneys a couple notches below a tapeworm, it is easy. there is alwasys a "teachable moment" right around the next thread. Such as this wonderful OP asking if he was scammed to pay someone $1800 for filling out his I-129f and G-325a for him. And to think they did this right on street without the benefit of "banner ads".

They do not have to worry about repeat business, like say, a shady used car salesman. I mean how many people are going to be in need of an attorney for this...TWICE? Lure 'em in and KILL them first time around

But you keep plugging along, hoping one day for the "Gosh, I am so GLAD I hired the immigration attorney" thread.

What do you think of this? I think people who pay these fees should be able to write them off on their income tax. What do you think? Like a "moving expense". That way, the US congress can have some hearing about these fees and determine if they should be allowed to be deducted like other legitimate expenses. Hmmmm. Maybe a little congressional oversight of the fees charged by attorneys to process US Government visas would be to everyone's benefit. What do you think?

I have to admire you too, Gary. You keep plugging along looking for your 'teachable moments'. You're so committed to the cause. So committed in fact that - you didn't answer my question! Instead of answering, you wheel off on another tangent about tax deductions.

Unlike you however, I'll answer:

If the government wants to give me a tax deduction, I'm all for it. However, since for the last twenty years they've been taking away more deductions from the individual taxpayer than they've been creating, I don't think you've got much of a prayer. AND since they themselves tripled their own fees in 2007, well I don't think they would be terribly concerned.

Now back to what I asked you the first time (and I shall expand on my question in case it confused you the first time)- what exactly is it you think I recommend when it comes to the use of an attorney for immigration matters?

Sorry, but I DID answer. I was agreeing with you that attorneys, like the Thai Service, ARE NOT scams. They provide an unneeded service for an outrageous price, but it is willingly agreed to by the host organism.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or is it just me?

I think I asked you what you would do if you ever needed an immigration attorney. Instead of answering me you say you are agreeing with me. Agreeing with me about what? Apparently you are veering off to whatever it is you think I mean regarding the use of immigration attorneys. Therefore I asked you to expand upon what you think I mean, only because it seems to be your goal to pick fights about this issue....

Oh hell nevermind. You are so good at avoiding the issues you've even confused me......

Well, I dare say I am offended. Hrumpf. I will send a strongly worded letter to the times about this! Reading comprehension indeed!!!! And foul language to boot! H-E- double hockey sticks!!! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Alla is offended also, look at that look she is giving you. Shame.

Actually I answered THAT question also. I live on an island, Rebeccajo. There is a bridge nearby, two in fact, but one is quite tall. If I needed an immigration attorney, I would go to that bridge, park my car at the top, get out and jump off. Yes, crazy, but if I ever felt I needed an immigration attorney, my mind would be lost already.

Feel free to ask any other questions, I will answer, whether it confuses you or not I cannot say, but you will let us know I am sure.

[rebeccajo 14]

When I was researching getting a K1 Visa in Bangkok and went to the Embassy, it was closed, but there was a man standing in front that said he worked for an agency across the street. Long story short, I ended up using this agency that is supposed to assist in getting a visa. It cost me a pretty penny... $1800 to be exact which I put on my credit card..... I thought they were saying $1800 Baht, but they were talking dollars.

In hindsight, I think I could have done everything they are doing, and saved a lot of money. But, it's too late I already paid them, and pretty much what they did so far, was fill out all the paperwork for me, which was 2 different forms, and put it in a package for me to send with a payment to Homeland Secuirty. I thought they would be submitting something in Thailand, but then I realized that the whole process starts here in the USA. I am reading people's timelines, and I see that it takes a good 4-6 months for the whole process, some longer.

I am about to submit the forms on April 13th.... I wish I had known that it was as simple as it was to fill out the forms, as I could have had this paperwork in February when I returned from Thailand to the states. Instead I waited for this agency to put it together for me, but it took a while for my fiancee to get all the appropriate documents, and then when I did get the package I was short on cash so I had to wait until I had $455 to send with the package.

My question is has anyone used one of these agencies? Do you think I was ripped off, knowing that I could do all this myself? I am not sure if having this agency will be useful later on in the process??

Yes, lots of people use them. They are called immigration attorneys in the USA. Why is it a scam when a Thai "agency" does it and not when an American attorney does? If you got what you agreed to pay for, what's the problem? It isn't a "scam", it is a service for a fee. Not much of a service, to be sure, and for less than many attorneys so, be happy.

If you hired an Americna attorney it would add to the process just the same, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to file this for you. Yeah, they can lick the stamp, but not without YOU providing all the documents and information to fill in the forms. The typical attorney gets you to fill out a K-1 "questionaire" which is really just all the information they need to fill in the forms. By the time you complete the questionaire, you could fill in the form yourself!

Agreiing to pay someone else a fee for that which you can do yourself is NOT a scam. Now if he took your money and disappeared...THAT's a scam. He is just a Thai attorney.

What if you ever need an immigration attorney, Gary?

How do you know you won't?

Hey, I was agreeing with you Rebeccajo! You once said I should expand my mind about this stuff, and lookie here! I did. I felt I was expanding my mind and thinking globally and all that. I said it was NOT a scam, just like when American attorneys charge the same for doing almost nothing. Gosh I try to defend attorneys by telling the truth about their legitimate business....and look what happens.

Well, still working on expanding

Agreeing with me? Just what exactly do you think it is I "recommend"?

I have to admire you Rebeccajo. You do not have it easy. I mean for me, a person that consideres imigration attorneys a couple notches below a tapeworm, it is easy. there is alwasys a "teachable moment" right around the next thread. Such as this wonderful OP asking if he was scammed to pay someone $1800 for filling out his I-129f and G-325a for him. And to think they did this right on street without the benefit of "banner ads".

They do not have to worry about repeat business, like say, a shady used car salesman. I mean how many people are going to be in need of an attorney for this...TWICE? Lure 'em in and KILL them first time around

But you keep plugging along, hoping one day for the "Gosh, I am so GLAD I hired the immigration attorney" thread.

What do you think of this? I think people who pay these fees should be able to write them off on their income tax. What do you think? Like a "moving expense". That way, the US congress can have some hearing about these fees and determine if they should be allowed to be deducted like other legitimate expenses. Hmmmm. Maybe a little congressional oversight of the fees charged by attorneys to process US Government visas would be to everyone's benefit. What do you think?

I have to admire you too, Gary. You keep plugging along looking for your 'teachable moments'. You're so committed to the cause. So committed in fact that - you didn't answer my question! Instead of answering, you wheel off on another tangent about tax deductions.

Unlike you however, I'll answer:

If the government wants to give me a tax deduction, I'm all for it. However, since for the last twenty years they've been taking away more deductions from the individual taxpayer than they've been creating, I don't think you've got much of a prayer. AND since they themselves tripled their own fees in 2007, well I don't think they would be terribly concerned.

Now back to what I asked you the first time (and I shall expand on my question in case it confused you the first time)- what exactly is it you think I recommend when it comes to the use of an attorney for immigration matters?

Sorry, but I DID answer. I was agreeing with you that attorneys, like the Thai Service, ARE NOT scams. They provide an unneeded service for an outrageous price, but it is willingly agreed to by the host organism.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or is it just me?

I think I asked you what you would do if you ever needed an immigration attorney. Instead of answering me you say you are agreeing with me. Agreeing with me about what? Apparently you are veering off to whatever it is you think I mean regarding the use of immigration attorneys. Therefore I asked you to expand upon what you think I mean, only because it seems to be your goal to pick fights about this issue....

Oh hell nevermind. You are so good at avoiding the issues you've even confused me......

Well, I dare say I am offended. Hrumpf. I will send a strongly worded letter to the times about this! Reading comprehension indeed!!!! And foul language to boot! H-E- double hockey sticks!!! Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Alla is offended also, look at that look she is giving you. Shame.

Actually I answered THAT question also. I live on an island, Rebeccajo. There is a bridge nearby, two in fact, but one is quite tall. If I needed an immigration attorney, I would go to that bridge, park my car at the top, get out and jump off. Yes, crazy, but if I ever felt I needed an immigration attorney, my mind would be lost already.

Feel free to ask any other questions, I will answer, whether it confuses you or not I cannot say, but you will let us know I am sure.

If you really needed help and you refused it simply out of pride, arrogance or whatever, it wouldn't be me that Alla would be giving that stern look to.

[TBoneTX 44,690]

If you really needed help and you refused it simply out of pride, arrogance or whatever, it wouldn't be me that Alla would be giving that stern look to.

I agree with RJ on this point and on all others that she has made within this thread. Foresight, circumspection, and anticipation of potential occurrences are valuable in many (most, all) instances.

[TBoneTX 44,690]

[edit failed; addition here] Other posters on VJ have enjoyed positive outcomes as a result of dealing with immigration attorneys; accordingly, a continuing insistence of "all immigration attorneys are worthless" does not hold water. Furthermore, it is perhaps a violation of the VJ TOS to flatly advise people "You do not need an attorney!" without knowing the entirety of their circumstances. Posters here need to bear in mind that one purpose of VJ is to inform reliably, rather than to blithely spew an agenda or to continuously write, "this happened to me; therefore, it WILL happen to you." There's a world of difference between "will" and "may," and it's clear that some posters on here blur the distinction.

[daboyz 36]

My attorney took my money and then made numerous mistakes delaying my case for no less than 3 months.

This MAY happen to you.

[TBoneTX 44,690]

This MAY happen to you.

Si, man... and my attorneys provided advice that pulled a visa out of the world's #1 hellhole consulate. This MAY also happen to you, si man.

[daboyz 36]

This MAY happen to you.

Si, man... and my attorneys provided advice that pulled a visa out of the world's #1 hellhole consulate. This MAY also happen to you, si man.

Did you have this attorney from the start? Or did you hire him after you ran in to issues in Ecuador?

[Krikit 1,163]

Did you have this attorney from the start? Or did you hire him after you ran in to issues in Ecuador?

What makes you so sure it's a him?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

[edit failed; addition here] Other posters on VJ have enjoyed positive outcomes as a result of dealing with immigration attorneys; accordingly, a continuing insistence of "all immigration attorneys are worthless" does not hold water. Furthermore, it is perhaps a violation of the VJ TOS to flatly advise people "You do not need an attorney!" without knowing the entirety of their circumstances. Posters here need to bear in mind that one purpose of VJ is to inform reliably, rather than to blithely spew an agenda or to continuously write, "this happened to me; therefore, it WILL happen to you." There's a world of difference between "will" and "may," and it's clear that some posters on here blur the distinction.

Tbone, the purpose of a "forum", by definition, is a discussion of experiences. I cannot discuss your experiences, I can only discuss mine. If someone makes the implication that because something happened to me it WILL happen to them, it is an error, but not MY error, as I have never said such a thing. Anything written by my hand is my opinion, hence the purpose of putting our names on these things. My opinion is based on my experience. I speak about my experience, it is not wrong, right, black or white. It is my experience. I cannot say "this happened to me but MAY not happen for you", such is implied when comparing experiences. It is the purpose of comparing MANY experiences. If anyone reads your experience and assumes it will happen to them, it is also an error. It COULD happen, but when comparing all experiences presented here, they will see it is much more LIKELY their experience WILL be closer to mine than to yours. What are the odds?

I will continue to discuss my experience with this system and you will comtinue to discuss yours. People will continue to read both, and others, and people will continue to make their own decisions based on a broad range of other's experiences, and the guides and the rules...hence the purpose of visa journey.

I thank you for the insight you give on a very difficult consulate, and as I have said many times before, I admire your determination in succeeding. Yes there is a world of difference between MAY and WILL. Fortunately, what happened to you WILL not happen to the vast majority of VJ members. But it MAY, hence the value of your posts. What happened for me WILL happen for many VJ members. A simple, straight forward process of papers and documents and "red tape" but no hassles to speak of. This is the path that WILL happen for mosty of VJers. thank goodness.

And for now, I am finished pulling Rebeccajos pigtails. There will be another day for that.

And I still rank immigration attorneys a few clicks below tapeworms, but they and Thai visa services are NOT scams.

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

You have stated one reason you don't think anyone would ever need an attorney is because they can find anything they need to know on VJ.

VJ is a forum. It consists of members anecdotal experiences (as you have so stated above). It also consists of people attempting to answer questions. Some answer based on anecdotal experience; some answer based upon reading and research; some answer to try and be helpful. Many of the answers are wrong. In the last three days, I have seen you yourself give at least two incorrect answers to questions (and that is with the limited time I have to devote to reading here).

Personally, I see little difference in the 'quality' of information one might receive here vs. across the desk of a legal professional who dabbles in immigration. And I do believe it is those professionals who cause the most agony to their clients.

If you are going to DIY your case - don't just read here. Read elsewhere. There are many sources on the web. And, it never hurts to receive a legal consult from a qualified individual. A good qualified attorney may well tell a client the same thing I was told - we didn't need to hire him.

[Marina-Del 10]

Tourist visas to the US are next to impossible to get in Bangkok.

I have to disagree. My gilfriend at the time (now my fiancée) had a 2 minute interview and was granted a 2 year multi entry visa. All that documentation she brought with her wasn't even looked at. The interviewer asked her a couple of simple questions and told her that her passport and visa would be mailed to her in 2 days. ...unbeknownst to him, her boyfriend (fiancé....me) had already submitted her I-129 petition.

Please don't take this offensively as I do not mean it as such at all! But how much money does your fiancee and her family have? (I don't want a real answer of course, just trying to make a point).

For example, it is nearly impossible for a Brazilian person to get a tourist visa to the US. My fiance and his family could NEVER come to the US on a tourist visa with the amount of money they have. They are what you would call very middle class Brazilians. They all live in nice houses, all have steady jobs, all have cars, and that sort of thing -very middle class. This might sound like they are doing pretty well, but they only have these things because they have worked their azzes off their ENTIRE lives to have it. However, they cannot get tourist visas to the US (he's tried and failed). However, as hard as it is for most Brazilians to get tourist visas to the US, it is very very very easy for those Brazilians whose families have a lot of money. If your family makes over a certain amount of money a month (or if you make over a certain amount of money a month) then you'll get a tourist visa to the US within minutes. But if not, there isn't a chance!

I ask this because maybe this is the case with your fiancee and her family as well. If her family and subsequently her, are doing really well in the money department then it makes sense why it was so easy for her to get a tourist visa. If not, then she got really really lucky! It is not normal for Thai people to get tourist visas to the US, just like it is not normal for Brazilians to get tourist visas to the US. I just wanted to point this out so that you don't get false hope to others who WILL be denied for their tourist visas!! But congratulations on yours!!!

[Thai Rath 1]

Tourist visas to the US are next to impossible to get in Bangkok.

I have to disagree. My gilfriend at the time (now my fiancée) had a 2 minute interview and was granted a 2 year multi entry visa. All that documentation she brought with her wasn't even looked at. The interviewer asked her a couple of simple questions and told her that her passport and visa would be mailed to her in 2 days. ...unbeknownst to him, her boyfriend (fiancé....me) had already submitted her I-129 petition.

Your fiancee was an exception and the exception doesn't prove the rule. Glad she didn't have any trouble getting the multiple-entry visa.

[TBoneTX 44,690]

Did you have this attorney from the start? Or did you hire him after you ran in to issues in Ecuador?

What makes you so sure it's a him?

Attorneys, plural; both hims. Had I consulted with them from the start, many later problems could have been avoided.

[TBoneTX 44,690]

Gary - [...] In the last three days, I have seen you yourself give at least two incorrect answers to questions [...]

I have seen even more than that number.

And, it never hurts to receive a legal consult from a qualified individual.

Si, man. And, Gary, if we "read accurately and interpret literally," many problems can be avoided. The same goes for posting accurately. If you take more care and publish fewer "drive-by" posts, more people can benefit from what you may have to say. Edited April 15, 2009 by TBoneTX