Married To A German :)

[Melian 0]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I like to drink a beer every now and then or a glass of wine with some good food. I always feel like an alcoholic in the US with the look people give me when we are going out. Oh well, my husband and I we love to share a good dinner and wine in the evening- and we are definitely no alcoholics.

I noticed that the other way around. I was a bit shocked at first by the alcohol in grocery stores there, or the way my MIL would say "I am sooo drunk!" without a hint of shame. I think in comparison we Americans always drink with a bit of a sense of guilt/naughtiness, while in Germany it's just treated like a normal hing in a way it isn't here. Actually, kind of similar to attitudes toward sex in Europe vs. the US, I suppose.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Melian

[Melian 0]

Yep - I find the church taxes incomprehensible. I hear almost everybody goes on paying them, even though most don't even go to church. I just. don't. get. it.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Melian

[Eveline 9]

I think as long as you are baptized you have to pay church taxes. I have never paid a cent in my life to church. My mom has, but somehow got it removed, don't ask me how though.

[Philosykos 0]

Well to me it is a cultural difference in respect to maturity and adulthood. Here when you are 18 you are basically on your own. Your parents have an ethical obligation MAYBE to support you through college, but absolutely no legal obligation. At 18, you are an adult. By 22-23, it is expected that you should be nearly ready to be completely independent. If not going to school, you should have a full-time job or somehow be supporting yourself. Lots of people in my area get married around 22-25, have kids soon after. That's life here. My family and friends were very supportive of me getting married. After all, why not? I was nearly 23, out of school. Hell, lots of people get married while still students, it's no big deal.

With my husband's family and friends, omg, you thought the goddamnn world was going to end and I HAD NO IDEA WHY. It took me living there for at least a year to finally start to get it. They just have a completely different idea of what people my age at that time were supposed to be like. Completely different expectations. I finally understood when it came out that some of my FIL's initial reservation about the marriage was that I could sue him through his son to support me*. #######??? This is just absolutely unthinkable here in the US. I was an adult and the strings were cut a long time ago. I had grown up not to expect a dime from my parents, what would make me or anyone else think I would get money from them? I was insulted and infuriated to say the least. It was the biggest cultural conflict/problem that I experienced in Germany, bar none.

*My husband was studying/worked part-time, I worked part-time. When I first moved there, our rent, food, and insurance, and bus pass were around 550 a month, so yeah...

I don't think we'll ever agree on this, and I just want to point out that there are many people in Germany, too, who think and live like you describe. Those are usually the people not seeking higher education, but going for non-academic jobs. In this context it is also important to point out that it is very problematic to compare American college to the German university. The latter is now in a process of reform to approximate the American system, but until a few years ago, there were no undergrad degrees in Germany. The lowest degree was an MA/MS, and that degree is usually reached at age 26-27. Hence the cut-off age for parents' responsibility. Because of that structural difference, as well as differences in the secondary educational systems of the two countries, the percentage of the population attending university in Germany was traditionally much lower than that of American college graduates. A lot of jobs for which in the US you need a college degree are learned directly in the industry in Germany, and the people going for those jobs are independent from their parents much earlier in Germany as well, because they are done with their apprenticeships at age 20 or 21. Those people also tend to get married, have kids, and start what you define as "adult life" at an earlier age. So what we are talking about are not necessarily cultural, but also social differences.

Apart from the structural differences in the educational systems, there is also the cultural difference regarding the attitude to education, which I mentioned earlier. There is still the widespread idea in Germany that everybody is entitled to the education that suits them best, independently of the parents' financial situation. This is why universities are basically free and there is need-based government aid for everyone. And in order to ensure that only those receive this aid who truly need it, the parents are responsible for paying if they have sufficient financial means. In the US, on the other hand, there is no such entitlement, no responsibility of the government, and no legal responsibility of the parents.

I think it is probably very rare that a child actually sues their parents for support, but I know of one person who did it. The way it works is that one goes to the financial aid office and asks for support, declaring that one's parents refuse to pay. Then the government will go and get the money from the parents... I don't think there is an actual court case child vs. parents. Nonetheless, the person I know didn't speak to his father for years after that (I suppose they didn't have a particularly good relationship before that, otherwise this wouldn't have happened). I would think that few people are actually willing to go this confrontational route. I certainly wouldn't, but fortunately my parents were very generous, and supported me until I got my MA. When I left to get my PhD in the US, I was on my own, which meant that I got all my funding from the school and through external fellowships. It is still quite a strange thought for a German to actually PAY for your education! Ah, different cultures...

Edited April 22, 2009 by Philosykos

[Nina+Matt 0]

@philosykos thank you very much for that post, i was just about to write something similar!

in regards to the school systems, the states and germany cant be more different in theirs!!

in the us almost everybody goes to hs, gets their diploma and has the chance to go to university! there is no "sorting" of students!

in germany there are so many different primary education institutions, not just one kind of school everybody goes to! if you want to attend university in germany you have to go to the "gymnasium" and pass the final exams called "abitur" after 13th grade! without the "abitur" there is no way to go to university!! there are some other options to get a higher education degree, these degrees are not on the same level as university degrees though! germany basically has a "sorting" of students before their secondary education begins!

[panterchen 1]

No I did not get our marriage nor my name officially changed yet in Germany. I guess we will do that around the end of the year when we visit.

I have never been baptized -neither have any of my friends in Berlin- and thus never had to pay church taxes. I think being religious in Germany depends very much on the region you come from.

Great posts on pointing out educational differences. Us and Germany are just very different in that.

[Liebi 0]

I think as long as you are baptized you have to pay church taxes. I have never paid a cent in my life to church. My mom has, but somehow got it removed, don't ask me how though.

You just need to get your tax records from your employer (Lohnsteuerkarte), take it to the local fincancial institution along with a notarized form that states you no longer wish to be a member of the church and they will remove the memo "pay church tax" from your documents.

[Philosykos 0]

On the topic of "when minors in Germany become 18, they are an adult."

My stepson is 17. He will be 18 in November, so, we've got about 6 months. Last week he received a phone call from our insurance company (from my husband's work). They were calling to see when my stepson would be starting a job because, apparently, as soon as he starts his own job and is 18, he will be kicked off of my husbands insurance.

I was shocked by this phone call. I had to have my husband explain it to me.

The INSURANCE company is calling your 17 YEAR OLD SON to (basically) tell him to get his own insurance?! WOW.

I explained that in California, a child can be on their parents insurance until they are 22 years old, so long as they are enrolled in college.

The reason this happened is that in Germany, unlike in the US, health insurance comes with all full-time employment and even with part-time employment that is above a certain amount (over €400/month, I believe). The insurance company wasn't asking your stepson to be on his own for insurance now, they just wanted to know if he would now have another automatic source of insurance, and therefore didn't need to be on your husband's plan anymore as his dependent child (which I believe is free with public health insurance).

[Philosykos 0]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I like to drink a beer every now and then or a glass of wine with some good food. I always feel like an alcoholic in the US with the look people give me when we are going out. Oh well, my husband and I we love to share a good dinner and wine in the evening- and we are definitely no alcoholics.

Really? Where in the US were you? Utah?? Just kidding... I never felt like an alcoholic for occasionally drinking wine (I don't like beer, even though I'm German), but I only lived in urban areas on either coast. Is it different in the midwest?

Thank you to the person who posted http://nothingforungood.com. It is hilarious!

Edited April 23, 2009 by Philosykos

[veronicavonn 7]

I think as long as you are baptized you have to pay church taxes. I have never paid a cent in my life to church. My mom has, but somehow got it removed, don't ask me how though.

Although Philosykos mentioned one way to do it, I have also heard that you could go to your local Rathaus (in Germany) and declare that you no longer claim any religion. Thus, you would not pay chruch tax.

@Philosykos:

In re: the insurance bit. Yep, I worked a mini-job for 2 weeks (haha, ya. 2 weeks.) and insurance is NOT provided with a mini-job (aka 400 euro). Should you want insurance through your employer, you would not be a contract "mini-job employee." You would be a part-time employee and, thus, pay taxes. So, you would work the same hours as a mini-job employee (most likely), but get taxes taken out of your paycheck, thus, making your paycheck lower than 400euro. This is exactly what my German neice has been dealing with. (Yes, she is searching for a new job.

*I am the American in the relationship. My husband is German. We live in Germany.

[veronicavonn 7]

And, OMG Philosykos, I just stumbled across that blog two days ago on my favorite website www.ToyTownGermany.com. haha. Hilarious blog!

Another funny one to read:

http://100reasonswhyihategermany.blogspot.com/

Edit: OOPS! The blogger must've changed it to private. I can't read it anymore even though I requested to be a subscriber a week ago.

Edited April 23, 2009 by veronicavonn

[Nina+Matt 0]

@panterchen you will have trouble getting your name change, especially if you want a new passport, and marriage recognized in germany when you go home for a visit! you are not longer residing in germany and therefor the german embassies in the us are now "responsible" for you. i thought i could to it the same way but i was told it is not working.

[panterchen 1]

Nina+Matt: Thanks a lot! I didn't know. I am still registered in Germany as of now but plan to change that as soon as I have the GC. So I would have to register the marriage also at the German embassy?? I will need to read up on this.

As for my alcohol post: I have noticed two types of people here in the Midwest.

a) very very very religious aka non-drinkers and sometimes they are against alcohol completely

B) religious, yeah/neay...drinking every now and then

I just know that some of my husband's extended family didn't like us drinking so much at our wedding (but it wasn't too extreme like we couldn't walk straight anymore). Well, my family drinks a lot at special occasions like our wedding and everyone had a great time!

[Nina+Matt 0]

@panterchen mh, i got my "Abmeldebescheinigung" before i left germany because i was told i would need it to apply for my gc, but thinking of it now i dont even know if i send that form in with the application i received my gc though

you dont necessarily have to get the marriage recognized now, but by the time you need a new german passport and/or you want to officially change your last name you need to send the "antrag auf namensaenderung" with the application for your new passport to the german embassy in your area. if you do not send the "antrag auf namensaenderung" your new passport will be issued in your maiden name again.

the embassy will forward the "antrag auf namensaenderung" to the "standesamt 1" in berlin and they will write your marriage and name change in their book.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Nina+Matt

[panterchen 1]

Great! Thank you so much for the info. I just went to the webpage of the German general consul in Houston. That would be closest for us. And it seems anyways that if I want to have a new passport I need to go there in person since they now require biometric ones. Then I can get the official name change etc done. Hopefully, we will make it to Houston some day...

As far as I read it you don't need the 'Abmeldebescheinigung' in the US for anything. It is just for German legal purposes and required by law. But I was just thinking that as long as I don't have the GC and thus a permanent resident I could technically want to go back any time.

I'll try tomorrow morning to have my biometrics taken earlier. Wish me luck!! I hope that it'll work out. I don't want to wait another 3 weeks for it to be done.

Edited April 23, 2009 by panterchen