White House: No bow to Saudi King

[GaryC 7]

We've had a fair few politicians who are fixated on how things appear (as to how they actually are) - that applied to Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher, and it would seem to apply to equally to Obama and Bush.

Quite why members of the public are concerned about that stuff is another question. We're not talking an international incident here...

I will admit that it is symbolism only and has no real effects in the real world. But you must understand that in America symbols mean a great deal to us. Things like our flag, the bald eagle etc are in our hearts and bring out strong reactions when they are violated. Because you are not a natural born USC I don't expect you to understand but trust me, it does mean a great deal to a lot of us. The sight of our president bowing to anyone ignites something inside that is hard to explain. I guess its called National Pride.

I'm not sure that's what it is. I have national pride but I'm not particularly invested in individual politicians and heads of state.

But I really wouldn't overstate that this is somehow an "American" thing - I suspect there are a fair few USCs who don't give a ####### about this.

By the same token I suspect there are a fair few USC's that do give a ####### about it.

[Peikko 1,575]

I can think of one or two.

Investing undue importance into symbolism is both naive and potentially dangerous.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

We've had a fair few politicians who are fixated on how things appear (as to how they actually are) - that applied to Tony Blair and Margaret Thatcher, and it would seem to apply to equally to Obama and Bush.

Quite why members of the public are concerned about that stuff is another question. We're not talking an international incident here...

I will admit that it is symbolism only and has no real effects in the real world. But you must understand that in America symbols mean a great deal to us. Things like our flag, the bald eagle etc are in our hearts and bring out strong reactions when they are violated. Because you are not a natural born USC I don't expect you to understand but trust me, it does mean a great deal to a lot of us. The sight of our president bowing to anyone ignites something inside that is hard to explain. I guess its called National Pride.

I'm not sure that's what it is. I have national pride but I'm not particularly invested in individual politicians and heads of state.

But I really wouldn't overstate that this is somehow an "American" thing - I suspect there are a fair few USCs who don't give a ####### about this.

By the same token I suspect there are a fair few USC's that do give a ####### about it.

But you're claiming ownership of the outrage as if you're speaking on behalf of the nation.

[Peikko 1,575]

Not wishing to cram this stuff down your throat Gary, because I think you are a very thoughtful and positive person in the round, but even biblical teaching highlights the danger of investing too much importance into the symbols of god to the detriment of what theology really means.

Which is a related subject obviously, not the exact some thing.

[GaryC 7]

Not wishing to cram this stuff down your throat Gary, because I think you are a very thoughtful and positive person in the round, but even biblical teaching highlights the danger of investing too much importance into the symbols of god to the detriment of what theology really means.

Which is a related subject obviously, not the exact some thing.

We are entitled to our opinions and I respect yours and Pikes. I would point out that on the whole those here that think it's no big deal are not USC's and those that do are USC's. I guess we cannot understand each others POV because of cultural differences.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not wishing to cram this stuff down your throat Gary, because I think you are a very thoughtful and positive person in the round, but even biblical teaching highlights the danger of investing too much importance into the symbols of god to the detriment of what theology really means.

Which is a related subject obviously, not the exact some thing.

We are entitled to our opinions and I respect yours and Pikes. I would point out that on the whole those here that think it's no big deal are not USC's and those that do are USC's. I guess we cannot understand each others POV because of cultural differences.

That may be true of this thread - but of USCs who don't care about this - not so much.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, you are quite right that I don't understand it . I think it is potentially problematic as well, if one goes down the route of defending the flag to the point of persecuting those who 'disrespect it' for example.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, you are quite right that I don't understand it . I think it is potentially problematic as well, if one goes down the route of defending the flag to the point of persecuting those who 'disrespect it' for example.

It is interesting for example, that the burning of the American flag is considered tantamount to treason but no shortage of excuses can be found to defend, for example, United States soldiers in Guantanamo Bay desecrating the Koran, the sacred symbol of another group of people.

[GaryC 7]

Well, you are quite right that I don't understand it . I think it is potentially problematic as well, if one goes down the route of defending the flag to the point of persecuting those who 'disrespect it' for example.

Well, I am not calling for Mr Obama's impeachment over it if that is what you mean. I just think it was very bad form.

Well, you are quite right that I don't understand it . I think it is potentially problematic as well, if one goes down the route of defending the flag to the point of persecuting those who 'disrespect it' for example.

It is interesting for example, that the burning of the American flag is considered tantamount to treason but no shortage of excuses can be found to defend, for example, United States soldiers in Guantanamo Bay desecrating the Koran, the sacred symbol of another group of people.

I think that desecrating the Koran was wrong also. Even though it doesn't mean anything to me I understand it means a great deal to others. I would never do it.