Time frame for legally staying in the United Kingdom

[MARM 7]

Oh my gosh. I would be crazy! I'm sure you must be! How awful!

Is there some solace that "something" will happen by the end of this month? At least it gets forwarded to Pakistan worst case scenario?

We are working like mad writing letters, trying to get some sort of information regarding what will happen next. Hopefully we will have some news about the procedures by next week.

Edited November 5, 2009 by MARM

[SunDrop 59]

Hiya

I've been following your incredible story for a while now and just want to start by giving you a hug! The stress must be truly insufferable.

I'm not an expert in any way, nor can I quote laws for you to use but a thought crossed my mind about the passport less situation. Having recently watched the very fascinating series on TV about the UK Border Force, I am confident in saying that if his student visa expires and he does not leave the country and IF he happens to become subject to a UKBF check, then they would question him, arrest him and HAVE to let him go if they can't find his passport. He needs a passport to be deported, plain and simple. We do not have deportation centres as they do in the US. This loophole in the law is how illegal immigrants manage to stay for decades in the country, especially if they're from countries that are non-cooperative (like China). They get arrested, released, asked to report to the local police station weekly and instead of doing the latter, just move to a different area of the country.

You said he's not working, so short of being arrested for an unrelated to immigration reason, the likelihood of him being 'caught' by the UKBF is slim. At worst, I imagine they would knock on his door and go from there.

What I don't know about is how/if they would get the USEM to hand over the passport. I'm amazed that the USEM is holding onto it, I didn't know they could do that?

I'm flying out of Heathrow on December 10th and would be more than happy to ask a UKBF agent the question, if you'd like! I'm a UK Citizen, so I wouldn't be putting myself at risk of difficulties and I would approach it as 'I read on a forum about someone who was in xyz situation and was curious about what you would do to get their passport back from the USEM?'

Edited November 5, 2009 by SunDrop

[MARM 7]

Hiya

I've been following your incredible story for a while now and just want to start by giving you a hug! The stress must be truly insufferable.

I'm not an expert in any way, nor can I quote laws for you to use but a thought crossed my mind about the passport less situation. Having recently watched the very fascinating series on TV about the UK Border Force, I am confident in saying that if his student visa expires and he does not leave the country and IF he happens to become subject to a UKBF check, then they would question him, arrest him and HAVE to let him go if they can't find his passport. He needs a passport to be deported, plain and simple. We do not have deportation centres as they do in the US. This loophole in the law is how illegal immigrants manage to stay for decades in the country, especially if they're from countries that are non-cooperative (like China). They get arrested, released, asked to report to the local police station weekly and instead of doing the latter, just move to a different area of the country.

You said he's not working, so short of being arrested for an unrelated to immigration reason, the likelihood of him being 'caught' by the UKBF is slim. At worst, I imagine they would knock on his door and go from there.

What I don't know about is how/if they would get the USEM to hand over the passport. I'm amazed that the USEM is holding onto it, I didn't know they could do that?

I'm flying out of Heathrow on December 10th and would be more than happy to ask a UKBF agent the question, if you'd like! I'm a UK Citizen, so I wouldn't be putting myself at risk of difficulties and I would approach it as 'I read on a forum about someone who was in xyz situation and was curious about what you would do to get their passport back from the USEM?'

Thank you so much for offering to do this, both my fiance and I would appreciate it! Right now we have not decided whether he is going to stay after Nov 30 or leave on Nov 30. So if he is still in the UK when you fly out of Heathrow on Dec 10th it would be very nice of you to ask the UKBF agents. We have emailed the UKHO but they rarely respond and when they do, it is a general answer not addressing our situation. Thanks so much once again, you didn't have to do this!

[MARM 7]

About the detention centers, the UK does have them, but they are called "Immigration Removal Centres" I don't know how long they have been in establishment, but this is the link about all the centers they are operating in the UK: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/managing...removalcentres/.

And about the passport, the USEM usually holds onto the passports when AP is going to be short or not expected to take long, so that they can just put the visa in and send it without the added delay of requesting the passport, receiving it, and then putting in the visa and sending it out again. But in my fiance's case, they have the visa since June 2009 and whenever we have explained to them the situation of my fiance having to leave on Nov 30, 09, they are deaf to our concerns, it is almost like they deliberately ignore our correspondence regarding this matter, they LOVE to answer with their standard "sorry the case is still pending".

[MARM 7]

Well, after reading about these detention centers, I would NEVER want my fiance to have anything to do with them. I think it is best for us to plan on his leaving the UK by Nov 30, 09 to eliminate a cause for any further problems.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Hello MARM. A hug for you from me too. I'm still checking on you but don't comment much.

Love the guy who wants to quiz the UK border people. I always did that coming back through immigration into the US. So many people worry about things...like not being able to visit the US once a petition has been filed. So I would ask the immigration officer loads of questions like..."So what do you have on that computer of yours? Does it say I've filed a petition for a UK fiance?" (He said nothing about visa petitions is on their databases.) I think it's great to get the opportunity to ask the real source. I wish you had access to a real source at the Embassy to quiz. You are in such a dreadful position and have been for a long time. Blessings to you.

[SunDrop 59]

Hello MARM. A hug for you from me too. I'm still checking on you but don't comment much.

Love the guy who wants to quiz the UK border people. I always did that coming back through immigration into the US. So many people worry about things...like not being able to visit the US once a petition has been filed. So I would ask the immigration officer loads of questions like..."So what do you have on that computer of yours? Does it say I've filed a petition for a UK fiance?" (He said nothing about visa petitions is on their databases.) I think it's great to get the opportunity to ask the real source. I wish you had access to a real source at the Embassy to quiz. You are in such a dreadful position and have been for a long time. Blessings to you.

Gal actually lol

Whatever you guys decide to do, I'm still going to ask! Firstly because I'm curious to a fault which means I'm full of usually rather useless bits of information but also because you never know when someone here will be in a similar predicament!

And you bet I'll be doing the same to USCIS peeps once my visa is in hand and I'm through with my AOS! I did once try to sneak a peak at the screen, but he turned it away and said, 'have you ever had a US visa before?' and I replied, 'yup, an L4. Or maybe it was a 3. Wait, no a 2. OK, it was an L something but definately not a 1!' He just laughed and nodded... My Dad had been transferred to NY for work and I was under 21 when they went...

[SunDrop 59]

Well, after reading about these detention centers, I would NEVER want my fiance to have anything to do with them. I think it is best for us to plan on his leaving the UK by Nov 30, 09 to eliminate a cause for any further problems.

I don't blame you for feeling this way! But having said that, I'd honestly stack my bets that without being able to get the passport, they cannot legally detain him. It was a recurring grumble with all the agents they followed. I have half a mind to nip down the road to Gatwick and just pick up the hotline to the immigration department there and ask them the question. If I'm in that neck of the woods between now and November 29th, I'll do just that.

I am curious though how he's going to leave the country with no passport, though?

[JeremyR 8]

I'm still reading and thinking of you guys too

Honestly, MARM, I think SunDrop is right and you're so much between a rock and a hard place that if it comes to it, your fiancé won't have much choice but to remain in the UK until the USEM/DOS/etc finally get off their collective arses and issue his blummin' visa. The embassy aren't going to hand back the passport without withdrawing the application (for the love of god, don't do that! ) and he unequivocally can't leave the country without a passport (of course) so really, I don't think he has a choice. It's undesirable, obviously but I'm pretty sure that under UK law, the HO cannot deport somebody who doesn't have a country that will accept them and since he has no passport, he has no country that will accept him. There's no way, surely, that the USEM will hand over his passport to the UK home office without your fiancé's express permission.

Obviously I'm hoping against hope that it won't come to this and his passport will be returned with that magical sticker in the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed!

[MARM 7]

Thanks everyone for all your support, it really means a lot to us.

The good news is that today I finally got a hold of one of the senator's case workers, the other senator and congressman's workers are always "unavailable". And she told me that she would specifically ask the DOS about transferring embassies for my fiance's case. I was very thorough with her and repeatedly told her I need information regarding his visa and what will happen if he leaves by Nov 30, 09.

Nich: Thanks for everything As with the UKHO, I am sure you remember the frustrations we had while renewing my fiance's UK student visa this past year. The UKHO kept his passport for about 7 months, which is why we had to delay the interview for his K-1 twice...and now this....I am sure all of this stress will end one day!

SunDrop: He has to formally ask for the passport back, according to a few DOS reps, the US embassy isn't holding his passport "hostage" (yes, that is exactly what they said). This means that he has to ask for his passport well in advance of leaving, like a few days from today so that he has it in time to depart before Nov 30, 09. I just wish the UKHO would answer our emails properly regarding our predicament. I remember we emailed them a few times when we were thinking of withdrawing my fiance's UK FLR(S) extension because they weren't giving us his passport back in time for the initially scheduled K-1 interview, and they told us that there is no definite time period that my fiance has to leave once his UK FLR(S) is withdrawn, but that he has to eventually leave the UK since he won't have a legal status. Thankfully we waited until we got the UK FLR(S) approved before going to the K-1 interview, because contrary to the UKHO dusting off our email lightly, one member here on VJ faced the same issue with her fiance, he had actually sent his UK FLR(S) for processing and went to the interview without a passport or a UK resident ID card (my fiance didn't have his passport but he had the UK resident ID card at the time of his interview), and the US Embassy in London actually reported him to the UKHO, and he was arrested as soon as he exited the embassy and they released him after confirming that he had indeed sent an application that was under processing for his UK FLR(S). So as you can see, even the answer we received from the UKHO was not a good one, we took the safe way and waited to get the resident ID card in hand if not the passport for the day of the interview, otherwise Lord knows what kind of trouble they would have put my fiance through, not to mention the humiliation of being arrested in public...So we don't want to risk anything like that and want to do everything the right way, even if it means that we have to get embassies transferred. It is very very very, EXTREMELY stressful, but what else can one do... And it would be nice to hear what information you find out if you do get a chance

JeremyR: Thanks for your support as always

As far as withdrawing the K-1 application, DOS/USELondon cannot do that without a valid reason, such as denying it or something like that. I have spoken to several members here on VisaJourney that have successfully transferred there cases between embassies, so I know that it can be done, I just don't know how exactly and when. And another thought that is really bothering me is whether the embassy in Islamabad will start from where London left off or will they begin their own procedures all over again. I am thinking that they are just going to be the ones issuing the visa because my fiance's K-1 is approved, it is just pending clearance from DOS, so that is independent of the embassy location. But I don't know if this is a fact. As far as the UKHO and deportation goes, we have already gone through too much to risk my fiance being detained or arrested even for purposes of further investigation, I don't want to see my fiance go through all of that. We are going to eventually ask for the passport back in writing to the embassy and explain to them that his case needs to be transferred from London to Islamabad. I am told that this is the way to do this right now, but the Senator's case worker will get back to me tomorrow or the day after with the exact procedure on how to go about doing this. I remember I emailed the US Embassy in London once asking about whether my fiance's visa could be issued in the UK if he was living in Pakistan, and they had explicitly told me at that time that it is not possible because the passport and the applicant must be together LEGALLY in the same country of the issuing embassy...something about it being illegal to send passports internationally to the embassy. So even if my fiance did not leave the UK on November 30, 2009, he would be considered illegal in the UK by the US Embassy in London and that would open a whole other can of worms that we don't even want to think about. Thanks for hoping for the best for us!

The horrid thing about this whole mess is that IF only they would issue his visa in the passport, we wouldn't have to worry about all of this, (we have all of this to worry and also jobs, families, traveling, etc).

[DIARD 1]

I can not believe you are still dealing with this! I have been following along since it started. I hope it works out before the end of November so you don't have to deal with the passport issue.

[MARM 7]

Thanks for the support DIARD

OK, so I made sure quite a few times before I decided to post the good news here (especially since last time it was a lie, so I didn't want to get my hopes up too soon):

My fiance received clearance from DOS today. He received an email from the London IV unit (the email address was not from LondonConsular@state.gov, it was from LondonIV@state.gov) saying that they received clearance today for him and that "we will issue your visa shortly and send it with the courier in the next few days". Now to confirm this, I called DOS in the morning (15 minute wait ) and the DOS rep told me "pending" and then I asked her whether the system shows anything about receiving a clearance from DOS for my fiance and I told her about the email he received, and she confirmed that yes it is INDEED TRUE . And then again, (call it Obsessive-Compulsive if you want ) I called DOS again just now (only 3 minute wait!) and the DOS rep told me that it is still pending and then I asked her again about whether the system shows up his clearance and I narrated the email to her and she also confirmed that yes that is correct, DOS gave clearance for him today. And then I decided to quiz her because I wanted to know why it showed pending when the London emailed me with their intention to issue the visa, she told me that DOS will continue to say "pending" until the visa is actually printed. So even if someone was approved at the interview and the embassy says (like in London's case) that they will send the visa within 5 working days, if you call DOS after your interview, they will say pending because as she told me "its not over until it is really over" meaning until it is physically in the passport, they cannot say issued. So this is the info she gave me and she also said the embassy knows first before DOS, even though DOS gave the clearance, but in the case of printing the visa, the embassy will make a note in the system and then she can say "visa issued". But yes, he has received clearance from DOS :dance:

We are hoping and holding our breaths until he actually receives the visa in hand. We hope it is the beginning of this coming week. Still praying and hoping....

[JeremyR 8]

Sounds like fantastic news!

I'm hoping (again...) that this is the end of it all for you both... Fingers crossed for a text message from SMS in the next few days and a knock on the door the following morning

[broma25 2]

Despite our earlier bickerings....i am happy to hear that all is well.

congratulations!!

[DIARD 1]

Oh my freakin goodness!!! After almost 6 month since your interview, is it finally over for you? I pray that you received all the correct info and it is. Please post when he has the visa in hand so we know for sure. Here is hoping he is in your arms by the end of the month!!