K1/K3/H-2B/E3/DCF... WTF. Help please.

[ashenflowers 5]

Hi everyone,

I assure I did look around this forum, as well as the canuckabroad website before posting here. I did find some bit and pieces of great information here and there, however as each situation is different I still have confusion surrounding what to do and what I could 'get away with'. I'd love some direct help if anyone is willing to help me and answer a question they've already been asked 100 times probably.

Here's some info (I tried to look through and bold the questions/important parts afterward, if you want to ignore the rest):

My b/f (fiancé) is a dual citizen of Canada and the US. He actually used to live in the same city as me, but we didn't know each other at the time (ain't life cruel?)... He moved to California in April of 2008. We met in August of 2008 when he came up to visit some mutual friends. We officially started 'dating' in October when he returned to visit me, and I went to visit him in January for 2 weeks. I'm going to try to move to California in August of this year so we can be together (that's the dream anyways). In the mean time, he's coming here to visit again in May.

I am Canadian, living in Ontario. I do have a 2 year college diploma, but from what I've seen I'd really only qualify for a H2-B or E3 work visa. I don't have any special 'skills' and am not a 'professional' (I don't even work in the same industry as what my diploma is for anymore). His boss would be willing to sponsor me for a work visa from my understanding though.

Option 1)

We ARE willing to get married/elope/whatever to move the process along if necessary. I know this is sketchy, but is it actually FEASIBLE for me to go there in August without visa, then we get married, and apply for AOS/EAD/Advance Parole (re-entry permit) at that point? I'm waiting for a chorus of 'no, you'll be banned/denied'... but surely, people have done this under the whole 'Canadians can go there up to 6 months without visa' deal.

We ARE getting married out of love... we just want to be together so might have to expedite the inevitable. Going the route of the K-1 visa or even K-3 would take 10 months to a year probably before I could go there, and lets face it... we all know long distance relationships suck, and we don't want to be apart anymore. To add to the frustration, I won't have anywhere to live in Canada come September unless I move back in with my parents... (which I'd really rather not because I'd lose my job in Canada anyways as they don't live in the same city as me) sigh.

Option 2)

If I go to the US under the aforementioned sponsored work visa, could I then apply for AOS immediately and start the ball on permanent resident if we still got married right away? Or would you recommend waiting for a month or two then applying for permanent status... or would that just not work anyways? I kind of feel like this is a bit 'safer', because at least I'd be entering with a visa at least, instead of on the basis of being a 'visitor'... I don't know.

Option 3)

Since he is dual citizen, what's this DCF business? Will that really speed things along? Could we apply for that when he's in Canada next month? Does he really have to be LIVING in Canada for us to do that? It seems so much faster...

I should add... I know it seems simple to say 'why doesn't he just move back to Canada while you file a K1 or K3', but that's really a last resort. He sacrificed a lot to leave his life in Canada to move there, and really likes California (HELLO it's California! lol). He also has a good job that he doesn't want to have to leave behind. I, on the other hand, hate my job, am not really attached to where I am right now and really need a change... so that's why I'm the one that would be moving instead of him.

If Canadians can enter the US for 6 months without a visa, why do they prevent us from entering while waiting for visas and things to process? I'm not going to work illegally in the US... I just want to be with my future husband... It's not our fault their dumb system takes so long to get things processed...

Also, If I end up not being able to work for a few months upon my arrival in the US (depending on how we decide to apply), would I still be able to volunteer? I'd be bored out of my skull and would be interested in helping the local zoo or animal shelter to keep 'busy', but am not sure if that'd be allowed legally. Would I be able to take any classes, like 'free' ones at local community centres or something as well?

Sorry for that long winded, loaded question. lol Based on YOUR experiences, and what I posted about my situation, what do you think my best options are?

Thanks in advance for your input, help, or sympathies.

[thetreble 19]

OKay a couple of points.

First, welcome to VJ and to this process! Many people here are very knowledgeable and please be willing to take any advice they are willing to give.

I was an individual who came to the US as a visitor, got married "on a whim", and filed AOS. But I had no clue about the process before I moved. I had done a little research but it was so confusing to me and I wasn't overly sure what I wanted. I had no intentions of getting married but my husband and I decided it's what we wanted to do.

Some will tell you it's hard for them to detect Visa fraud, especially with Canadians, but it does happen and you obviously have all intent to immigrate there and forego proper procedures. There is always a chance in that case of denial.

But what I think I should tell you about my own experience, is that if i could go back and do it all again, I would have either goen through the K-1 process OR got married, came back to Canada and filed for a CR-1. For 10 months I was in the US without a job, with no rights, and no friends. It was a very boring, emotional existence that more people than just myself suffered through. We are all in such a hurry to be with our significant others, but my husband works 12-14 hours a day and I literally was alone all the time. I had an honours BA and I was sitting on my ####### eating cookies and watching re-runs of ER. So be careful in what route you consider because you may think its a great idea to rush it at the beginning, but it can end up in complete heartache very fast. If I didn't love my husband as much as I do, I wouldn't have lasted. We also long-distance dated for 3 years before we even decided to get married with monthly visits for most of those three years so I really wouldn't rush it.

If your husband's employer is willing to sponsor you, than go for it! You will find that many companies do not like to do this, however, especially as we are in a huge recession. Make sure they are aware of the process and that you are as informed as possible.

If you come to the US on a work visa and get married right away, and I really don't know how this works so don't take my word for it, and applied for AOS straight away, as a USCIS representative I would definitely look into you right away. But hey, I'm not sure if it's totally legit to do that or not and if it is, then you shouldn't have any problems. To me though, it looks very suspicious, especially as your employer would be your husband's employer.

I also want to make one more personal point...you may think you hate your job and you want to leave where you are, but so many of us here will tell you that we felt that way too. But when we moved here, we went through a huge process of shock and some of us would now love to go back to Canada and bring our husband's and families with us! At the time, we always think we hate where we are but believe me, it could be so much worse.

I encourage you to follow your heart and follow the proper legal processes, I just want you to be aware that it can be a very hard and discouraging process moving to another country. You think it's just the US, but it really can be night and day to what you are used to

Good luck.

Edited April 7, 2009 by thetreble

[FormelyCA 0]

I think you are screwed.

haha kidding!!!!!!!!!

But, I will say, I think you have a lot of "wishful thinking" here, but all of us have had it at one point in this process. And then reality hit us and we became all jaded and cynical I'm kidding.

Here is the thing about the "his boss will sponsor me" thing - I am pretty certain that you can ONLY get a job in the USA if it is a job that is listed on a specific list of professions on some USCIS webpage. I read it somewhere but right now have NO clue where it is. It looks like perhaps you were on at same site. USCIS lists potential jobs (IE, nurses, accountant, teachers etc.), and you can only get a job if you are in one of those professions listed on there. YOU CANNOT just get ANY job regardless of if a boss sponsors you or not. I am pretty sure on this though not 100%. That boss will have to then prove why YOU and ONLY you are fit for that job and not another US citizen. Especially with unemployment rates as they are, they aren;t going to be so willing to give away ANY of their jobs. And the fact that you have a degree is kind of pointless (sorry!) UNLESS you have ONE of those professions that came from that degree and prove why YOU are better than a US citizen for the job.

Here is a link:

http://www.rapidimmigration.com/usa/1_eng_kit_eb3.html

We attempted that route, but discussed it with a lawyer. It IS possible if you have one of the professions and have "extrodinary skills" in your field.

Here is another link:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...0000ecd190aRCRD

So, in all honesty, knowing NOTHING about you, this route doesn't happen very often, and not sure if you have one of those professions. If not, this is not possible for you.

All of the other options I don't know. I don't know if you happen to get a job if you can file for AOS immediately. Something tells me no, but I have no clue.

AND, it is from my understanding, that even if you go down, get married, apply for all that, YOU CANNOT WORK UNTIL everything is complete - a year or so process. I am doing the K1 so I cannot say specifically. But a girl I know went through the "wife" sponsor, and her green card JUST came - close to a year after she filed. And that INCLUDES volunteering sadly enough. I am not sure about taking classes, but if it is at a college of some sort, be prepared to pay "out-of-state" tuition which is about 3-4 times as much as in-state. So it is not as easy as "ok, I am here, let's do the AOS so I can be at work/class on Monday!!"

Like I said, I think you have a lot of wishful thinking. This is not an easy process. And if there was an easier way I am sure all of us would have done it. But, when you think about it, it is good that this process is so demanding. It weeds out those who are not committed to each other, or who met and decided "hey let's get married!!!"

One of my favorite quotes by the late "last Lecturer" Randy Paush kind of sums it up: The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough.

ANYWAY.............it looks like you have a lot of thinking to do. There is no easy answer in this. Kind of like "hey how do I loose 10 lbs by tomorrow!!!" If we knew, we would do it too! But...............................there really only is a few ways to do it, none of which are in your ideal options you listed. And none of which are quick and easy.

Anyway, hope things work out.....Good luck!

[SapphireDreams 71]

I think you have received some really good advice so far from thetreble and carrie - everyone wants to get through this quickly and move to the US as fast as they possible can. It's a fact that no one wants to be apart. The reality of the whole thing is that moving to the US is a long, expensive process that requires a lot of patience and planning to be successful.

You cannot have intent to marry when you cross the border and then get married and apply for AOS. If you do that, and they can prove that you had intent - which in my opinion wouldn't be hard as you would raise a red flag getting sponsored by your husband's employer - you will be comitting immigration fraud. Even if you went there and didn't work, you would risk being denied and then banned, which to me is not worth the risk when you can just take a few more months and get the K1 visa.

My boyfriend and I dated long distance for almost 5 years before we decided to file for a K1. I did a lot of research and tried really hard to go there on a work permit or student visa etc. But at the end of the day, I knew I wanted to go there to get married and start a family with him. I had no interest in trying to get around the long wait simply because I knew that at the end of the day I wanted this to be a long-term, permament move.

When we applied last June, we weren't officially engaged, but knew we would get engaged within the year. We knew that the process would take another 9-12 months, so we just planned for that time and having an end in sight was the best thing that ever happened to us. It made the long distance a lot more bearable.

In terms of moving back home and hating your job. I've realized from this process that I've had to make a lot of sacrifices and I will continue to make them for awhile. I have lived at home since I finished University 2 years ago because I didn't know where I would be and wanted to save money. It sucked for me when all of my friends wanted to move in together or whatever. Living with your parents for a couple of months wouldn't be the end of the world. For the most part I will say that I do like my job, but to be honest if I was staying here I would be looking for a new one right now, so these last few months are pretty brutal. But, like I said, you do what you have to do to get where you want to be. It takes time, but it's alllll worth it in the end.

My advice would be to be extremely realistic with your timelines. A planned move in August as a visitor or with a work visa wouldn't be the smartest decision based on the repercussions. If you filed for a K1 visa by the end of this month (let's just say) there's a good chance you would have a visa and be ready to move by November/December. That's not that much longer than August and would save you a lot of hassle or heartache. I would also advise you to be very realistic at the cost of this process. Recently someone posted a thread on cost and the whole process runs about $2800, so keep that in mind.

As someone who will have been long distance for 6 years before I actually move, I can honestly say if its meant to be it will work out and you will get through it.

Good Luck!

[trailmix 77]

This is not an easy process. And if there was an easier way I am sure all of us would have done it.

Hi there,

I think the line above says it all.

Could you just go over to the U.S., marry your fiance and apply for adjustment of status? Yes

Would you have to lie at the border to get in to the country to do this - Yes

Might it work out anyway - yes...perhaps no. It's up to you to decide whether you are willing to risk your adjustment of status being denied and/or being banned from the U.S. for some period of time.

[Krikit 1,164]

If Canadians can enter the US for 6 months without a visa, why do they prevent us from entering while waiting for visas and things to process? I'm not going to work illegally in the US... I just want to be with my future husband... It's not our fault their dumb system takes so long to get things processed...

You are not prevented from entering the US while waiting for your visa to be processed. You are, however, prevented from entering the US if you lie to them and/or they believe you are trying to bypass the immigration system.

Think short-term pain for long-term gain. Better to wait a few months to be together forever than to be barred from entering the US for years to come.

Welcome to VJ, Ashen.

[ashenflowers 5]

Thanks everyone for your responses and your welcomes. If I replied directly to all of them you'd go nuts with the amount of stuff I have to say, and I would likely end up just ranting about my personal situation (such as moving to live with my parents temporarily might not seem like the end of the world on the surface, but in doing just that I would lose my job, move away from all my friends, and go back to living in a stupid town of 4000 with nothing to do, no friends, no job, no money... hmm.. sounds a bit like what would happen if I moved to the US without being able to work anyway... lol).

But I do appreciate all your willingness to help, and would like to touch on a few details for anyone else who might read this. I felt there was some conflicting information in the responses from you all, but I'm not surprised, given the ridiculous depth of the visa process.

We have been looking into this since January, and ideally the petition for the K-1 should've been filed ASAP (i.e. February at the latest) but it was not... I will not place blame or point fingers as to why that didn't happen yet, but that part is out of my hands. Anyway, we've read a lot of info on various websites, and it's all becoming a bit of a blur. But, I do remember that there is a subcategory of work visa that applies for people who do not have any specific skills or qualifications. It's a bit of a catch all, for anyone who wants to get a work visa, though only a certain number are issued each year I guess. Seems a bit strange, but it's out there (or rather, "here" is where i found some info http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1271.html lol.. specifically the H-2B visa). That would be the one I would be attempting to get, but feel a bit concerned about doing so now.

My b/f works for a very small company (4 employees), and I was able to meet his boss on my last visit. I know that doesn't make a difference, but it just makes it all the more frustrating to know that there are people that want to help me, but can't. Though I do understand that he would have to prove why no one else could really do the job he'd be offering to me, and that'd be unlikely.

We are also looking into the possibility of my b/f moving back to Canada in the mean time, and file for everything up here together. But then HE'D have to give up HIS job, and his boss is offering to give him the business when he retires in a few years, so that seems like a stupid move to make him lose that opportunity.

I almost wish I could just go there on a whim as a vistor and pretend I didn't know what I was doing... Unfortunately researching and doing things properly seems to work AGAINST people. Go figure.

Reading some people's time lines here, I know a lot of you have gone through huge gaps in between your visits. My b/f and I are in the midst of a 4 month gap, which by comparison to a year or something isn't bad, but still sucks... and I have no clue when I'll get to see him again after this next visit. So, if I might say, for those of you who are done this stupid process and are WITH your significant others, count yourselves to be the lucky ones, and I'm glad your hard work paid off for you. I can't wait to join you, in that regard.

To us who are still apart from our loved ones, well, I'll search around this forum and find a spot where I can rant/whine about that with you. lol... if there isn't one, I'll blog about it or something.. LOL

haha great... for saying that I didn't want to reply to everything I more or less did anyways, or at least went on a long winded reply. Whoops.

Thanks again though everyone. Hopefully next time we can discuss a more positive sounding topic. lol

[trailmix 77]

Hey we have a place right here if you want to vent! Canada forum vent thread

Oh and i'm surprised you said there was conflicting info in our responses - I don't see that

Anyhoo, H2B is out of the question for now - it has been capped already for the 2nd half of fiscal year 2009.

WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced today that it has

received a sufficient number of petitions to reach the congressionally mandated H-2B cap for the second

half of Fiscal Year 2009 (FY2009). USCIS is hereby notifying the public that Jan. 7, 2009 was the “final

receipt date” for new H-2B worker petitions requesting employment start dates prior to October 1, 2009.

The “final receipt date” is the date on which USCIS determines that it has received enough cap-subject

petitions to reach the limit of 33,000 H-2B workers for the second half of FY2009. link

Edited April 7, 2009 by trailmix

[ashenflowers 5]

Hey we have a place right here if you want to vent! Canada forum vent thread

Oh and i'm surprised you said there was conflicting info in our responses - I don't see that

Anyhoo, H2B is out of the question for now - it has been capped already for the 2nd half of fiscal year 2009.

WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced today that it has

received a sufficient number of petitions to reach the congressionally mandated H-2B cap for the second

half of Fiscal Year 2009 (FY2009). USCIS is hereby notifying the public that Jan. 7, 2009 was the “final

receipt date” for new H-2B worker petitions requesting employment start dates prior to October 1, 2009.

The “final receipt date” is the date on which USCIS determines that it has received enough cap-subject

petitions to reach the limit of 33,000 H-2B workers for the second half of FY2009. link

Well, the only 'conflict' I really felt was whether or not I could do the work visa initially. But you definitely answered that.... lol! Thanks

Otherwise it was good Well, not 'good', but very helpful.

[Danu 19]

so much good advice in there. I totally hear you about being away sucking. Turns out I probably won't get to see my S/O now until I move due to restructuring and training at his company (which is a good thing, he could end up higher up!) which won't be till the end of Sept. or middle of October (if everything goes smoothly) Right now K1s through CSC have a super short timeline, so applying now might not be bad. We have a bunch of people getting approved in 30-60 days, which is amazing. So lets say you applied tomorrow for this route, you could be approved possibly in juneish, and if you ask nicely at montreal you may get to be there for sept/oct as well if they give you an early enough interview. If not, it will be till nov/oct, but thats still not bad. You can go visit him, he can visit you, just bring ties to your countries and there shouldn't be a problem. It hugely MAJORLY sucks, and I know how you feel. By the time I see my love again it will be about 7 or 8 months. But my one solice is that at that time he gets extra time off to be with me when I first move down, and it gives me lots of time to pack

[Reba 2]

attempting to get a non-immigrant (ie: work) visa with the intent of getting married and then applying to AOS is also a dicy situation. Not all work visas/status are dual intent, and if they deem that you had intent to immigrate, they can deny your application. They can evn deny your work visa application if they feel that you have intent to immigrate thru improper channels.

Your best bet is either of the marriage based visas, K1 or K3/CR1.

I had to live with my Mum for a few months while I waited for my K3 visa. And I was 38 at the time. We do what we gotta do.

[ashenflowers 5]

Thanks for your responses! I know I won't be able to get a work visa now, so that's out of the question sadly, but it's good to know that it's not a wise idea anyways, and something to avoid.

I feel that I should clarify that my issue with moving to my parents isn't so much the 'living with parents issue', as I do actually like my parents... lol but, it's the having to move away from friends and lose my job, and live in a very isolated situation for a few months (my parents live an hour and a 1/2 away from where I currently live, in a very small town). That's the part that bothers me, as it won't be a good experience, and I will have NO money as I'll be unemployed (there's no way I'd find a job in that area on a good day, let alone with everyone losing their jobs around here lately). Yes yes, that sounds whiny.... lol.. but I just know that being thrown into an unemployed/isolated situation in the midst of this experience, and STILL without my man, will be difficult to deal with.

Danu - Are they really processing the petitions in 30-60 days?? I mean, according to your timeline yes, but that seems unbelieveable! LOL The information I was finding online said they were taking 6 months. I realize that's likely just an 'average', but that is the timeline we were basing everything on. Waiting until October is a little more doable than waiting til December/January (I know it's just a matter of a few months, but still). Funny that we're both going Ontario -> California. I know they're both highly populated, so the chances aren't THAT slim, but still, kinda neat

[Krikit 1,164]

I feel that I should clarify that my issue with moving to my parents isn't so much the 'living with parents issue', as I do actually like my parents... lol but, it's the having to move away from friends and lose my job, and live in a very isolated situation for a few months (my parents live an hour and a 1/2 away from where I currently live, in a very small town). That's the part that bothers me, as it won't be a good experience, and I will have NO money as I'll be unemployed (there's no way I'd find a job in that area on a good day, let alone with everyone losing their jobs around here lately). Yes yes, that sounds whiny.... lol.. but I just know that being thrown into an unemployed/isolated situation in the midst of this experience, and STILL without my man, will be difficult to deal with.

Sadly, the reasons you give, above, are exactly the situation you will find yourself in when you immigrate. I know you can't appreciate that now - prior to moving - but you will when you get here. Maybe take a look at the Moving to America threads to give you an idea. It's a hard road to take.

[thetreble 19]

I feel that I should clarify that my issue with moving to my parents isn't so much the 'living with parents issue', as I do actually like my parents... lol but, it's the having to move away from friends and lose my job, and live in a very isolated situation for a few months (my parents live an hour and a 1/2 away from where I currently live, in a very small town). That's the part that bothers me, as it won't be a good experience, and I will have NO money as I'll be unemployed (there's no way I'd find a job in that area on a good day, let alone with everyone losing their jobs around here lately). Yes yes, that sounds whiny.... lol.. but I just know that being thrown into an unemployed/isolated situation in the midst of this experience, and STILL without my man, will be difficult to deal with.

Sadly, the reasons you give, above, are exactly the situation you will find yourself in when you immigrate. I know you can't appreciate that now - prior to moving - but you will when you get here. Maybe take a look at the Moving to America threads to give you an idea. It's a hard road to take.

Thank you, Krikit. That was the exact same response I was going to give Ashen after her post.

Ashen, many of us are under the assumption that once we move to be with our significant others, it will be SO amazing. And while it is no doubt great to live with them finally, many of us found it COMPLETELY isolating. What do you do all day while he is at work and you really have no where to go? There is only so much that can occupy you until you can start to feel a bit useless. It can be so lonely doing everything on your own.

Plus, why do you have to live with your parents? I'm not understanding it here. You don't have to move in with your parents if you don't want to and can support yourself as you are right now.

The only reason I moved in with my parents is because I had no other place to go and it was a good option for saving money. But it wasn't super necessary.

It goes beyond the rules and red tape of immigration. My emotional state was completely rocked that I even fought with my husband several times a weak. Various times I threatened to move home, packed a suit case, brought it to my car and just cried in it for hours. California is a long way from Ontario and I get the comfort of seeing my friends and family quite a few times a year since I only live in New Jersey. But I'm under the assumption that once you move, your visits may be infrequent. Just be careful in your decision making process. It's not the immigration process that is always the hardest to deal with, some times it's the part that comes afterward that can become a personal hell.

[ashenflowers 5]

I feel that I should clarify that my issue with moving to my parents isn't so much the 'living with parents issue', as I do actually like my parents... lol but, it's the having to move away from friends and lose my job, and live in a very isolated situation for a few months (my parents live an hour and a 1/2 away from where I currently live, in a very small town). That's the part that bothers me, as it won't be a good experience, and I will have NO money as I'll be unemployed (there's no way I'd find a job in that area on a good day, let alone with everyone losing their jobs around here lately). Yes yes, that sounds whiny.... lol.. but I just know that being thrown into an unemployed/isolated situation in the midst of this experience, and STILL without my man, will be difficult to deal with.

Sadly, the reasons you give, above, are exactly the situation you will find yourself in when you immigrate. I know you can't appreciate that now - prior to moving - but you will when you get here. Maybe take a look at the Moving to America threads to give you an idea. It's a hard road to take.

Oh I know... I'm fully aware that I will end up unemployed for a few months, and will feel very isolated having moved away from friends and family (aside from my b/fs parents who also live in California). My b/f did the same thing last year before we met, as he used to live in Canada as well. But I think the difference is that we'll be through "most" of this stupid process by then, and that really takes a lot of worry out of it. And I've actually been WANTING to move away from here for a number of years. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be puppies and rainbows right away when I get there. lol The b/f and I have already discussed what sorts of things I could do to entertain myself and prevent myself from going crazy...lol I think that's part of why I wouldn't want to be stuck at my parents house, because having to go through that in Canada AND after I move will be frustrating.

I'm not looking for pity, by any means, I'm just wanting to talk about my situation I guess and get an understanding of things. I know all of you have been through a lot to get through this process, so it's probably annoying to hear from someone like me. I too find it frustrating to know that there ARE people who go against everything and just move on a whim and stay there illegally (I personally know 2 people who've done it that way, and it's annoying.. lol... oh, my b/f is not one of them btw... haha he's perfectly legal ).