SSN refused

[CWR 0]

There is no question of SSA policy in issuing an SSN to an individual with K-1 status before or after getting married as long as the I-94 has not expired or is within 14 days of expiring.

If anyone tells you different they are wrong.

That knowledge doesn't really help you when you go to one or more SSA offices and are refused, does it?

After all, we all also know for example that a K-1 person does NOT need another medical in the US if he/she filed for AOS before her foreign medical was a year old....but there are people who have been RFEd for excactly that very thing. So what do you do, start several months of writing back and forth with the USCIS, explaning why you actually DON'T need a medical and that they are wrong....or go, have that medical, send it in and get the greencard? Knowing that "they are wrong" a lot of times does not help you much in the USCIS process and similar bureaucratic processes in the US....

It's the same with the SSN. Of course we know that many times the people in the SSA offices are either plain wrong or ignorant. (I had a hard time convincing the person at my SSA office to change my name in the system as well...originally he refused to do it and it took me more than 30 mins. to convince him that I was right - thanks to print outs from tVJ- and he was wrong. I was lucky that he finally either relented or saw the light )

But Selfie already HAD printed out the relevant document, and they still wouldn't issue her a SSN.....so what does it help her to know that "they are wrong"...? She still isn't able to get the number....

I had not posted my friend's experience in California to make a statement about SSA POLICY but just to show that Selfie is not alone, that it happened to other people as well.

[kerewin21 2]

As others have suggested, go back and hope you get a different person. If they tell you the same thing, ask to speak with a supervisor.

Good luck!

[Yodrak 7]

selfie,

Better yet, answer mdyoung's question about which office you had the problem with.

Yodrak

As others have suggested, go back and hope you get a different person. If they tell you the same thing, ask to speak with a supervisor.

Good luck!

[selfie 0]

she never said it was because I was married, she only said they are not giving SSN just because we feel like it basically, I need a good reason to get one, and I said I wanted one for getting a driver's license and to start working as soon I have my work permit and it wasn't good enough....

[shirlJ831 0]

I would go back to the office and if you get her ask to see a supervisor someone was right when they posted that all ssn offices (pple) are not clear on visa's good luck

[Yodrak 7]

I would answer mdyoung's question asking which office it was.

Don't know why, but I must be in a generous mood tonight.

Yodrak

I would go back to the office and if you get her ask to see a supervisor someone was right when they posted that all ssn offices (pple) are not clear on visa's good luck

[I'm Gone 60]

There is no question of SSA policy in issuing an SSN to an individual with K-1 status before or after getting married as long as the I-94 has not expired or is within 14 days of expiring.

If anyone tells you different they are wrong.

That knowledge doesn't really help you when you go to one or more SSA offices and are refused, does it?

It's the same with the SSN. Of course we know that many times the people in the SSA offices are either plain wrong or ignorant. (I had a hard time convincing the person at my SSA office to change my name in the system as well...originally he refused to do it and it took me more than 30 mins. to convince him that I was right - thanks to print outs from tVJ- and he was wrong. I was lucky that he finally either relented or saw the light )

But Selfie already HAD printed out the relevant document, and they still wouldn't issue her a SSN.....so what does it help her to know that "they are wrong"...? She still isn't able to get the number....

I had not posted my friend's experience in California to make a statement about SSA POLICY but just to show that Selfie is not alone, that it happened to other people as well.

With SSA you have a little more leverage than with USCIS in that you can ask to speak with the office manager and unlike USCIS you can submit your SSN application with any office unless you live in the Brooklyn, NY or Las Vegas, NV areas.

You can even try calling the Regional Office and in her case it's Philadelphia.

Phone: 215-597-3747

Fax: 215-597-1415

Email: phi.rpa@ssa.gov

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/natlpocontacts.html

[rushter 0]

she told me basically that it was only for food stamps and stuff like that, if I don't need the gov help I don't need that. I gave her the document of eligibility requirement and even with that she refused. I don't know if it's a problem but we were already married when I went there.

oh I forgot, Montreal wrote with a pen on my I-94 " Sep. X9, 2006 Employment Not Auth"

She said she did not liked that line, that just prooves I don't need SSN

Excuse me... but apparently something is missing here - Unless something has changed with the SSA, the person that interviewed you was correct.

On your I-94, it specifically states that Employment is NOT authorized.

Since she specifically does not have permission to work, (or is attempting to receive public benefits that require an ssn) then she is not eligible to receive an SSN imo.

I'd like to know if anyone here has received an SSN on a K1 without an I-94 with an authorization to work. If so, then ten bucks says that's an exception to the rule and a lot more folks were denied than approved. Furthermore, the DHS is the controlling authority on immigrants/non-immigrant ability to work in the USA, check http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-9.pdf

The requirements there go directly against those claimed by the inclusion of K1 on the chart under item C. The SSA does not give anyone authority to work.

More resources:

I am in the U.S. on a temporary visa. Can I get a Social Security number?

You can view this answer at

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cf....php?p_faqid=76

(Refers to reason needed to grant ssn - eg work)

Can a noncitizen obtain a Social Security number to get a drivers license?

You can view this answer at

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cf...php?p_faqid=414

*------------------------------------------------------

Now if someone could list some other links that supercede the policy that's listed there, I'll be happy to admit my error in guess-timation and bow to your higher knowledge!

*------------------------------------------------------

On a lighter note:

I don't know if this applies in your state or not, but you can get a form letter from the SSA stating your ineligibility to receive an SSN and take this to your DMV to apply for a drivers license if that is indeed acceptable to them. In GA it is. (It's called an SSN Denial form letter)

Edited June 24, 2006 by rushter

[rushter 0]

One last point.

The SSA link that is being referred to (in this thread) as the 'Authority' for getting an SSN, is based on an emergency memo that was issued on 11/01/2000. A lot has happened in the last six years, and with current policy as displayed on the ssa website (SSA Publication No. 05-10096, December 2005) http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html one should arrive at the conclusion that that old memo and eligibility chart that are still hanging out there are in fact, NOT current policy.

If indeed the supposition that the chart inferred authority to work, then I would challenge as to why all the money/time/biometrics are being spent on EAD's when the SSA says my wife can work without it.

If this were true then WHY is the DHS stamping or writing "Work Authorized" or not on I-94's at admission?

There's one heck of a discussion thread on this exact subject with some folks that are a heck of a lot smarter than I am... http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread....age=3&pp=15 It's 3 years old, but interesting if you're having problems going to sleep late at night.

In my opinion, the way current policy reads... if you're authorized to work, then you get an SSN. Otherwise you are not going to get one unless you twist arms... bat your eyes, look cute, act smart and demanding, be more authoritative than the ssn person's supervisor, walk in the office like you own the building, or are the DHS secretary's brother in law.

[I'm Gone 60]

RM 00203.500 C1 IS current policy and if you look up in the right hand corner of the page it was last updated April 2003. EM-00154 is outdated, but it was just interum instructions to SSA offices until RM 00203.500 could be updated.

Before that EM was issued SSA required K-1s to also have an EAD card or work authoration written on the I-94 to be assigned an SSN, but due to the fact that INS was having trouble getting EAD cards out to K-1s before the 90 days were up, SSA decided to make an exception and allow the SSN to be assigned with just the I-94, which changed nothing regarding a K-1 needing an EAD to work.

My guess is that immigration stopped for the most part marking I-94s as work authorized, because SSA no longer required it for an SSN. That discussion on BE is all about authorization to work. SSA makes SSN policy and if they say a K-1 doesn't need an EAD card to be assigned an SSN, it has no affect on a K-1 needing an EAD card to work.

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203500#C1

RM 00203.500 Employment Authorization for Nonimmigrants

C. POLICY - EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZATION BY CLASS OF ADMISSION

The following policy applies to employment authorization by class of

admission.

1. Aliens Work Authorized Without Specific DHS Authorization

The following lists nonimmigrants, by alien classification, who are

authorized to work in the U.S. without specific authorization from DHS.

The alien's I-94 will not have the DHS employment authorization stamp

and the alien will not have an EAD.

K-1 Fiance(e) of U.S. citizen

[I'm Gone 60]

Now if someone could list some other links that supercede the policy that's listed there, I'll be happy to admit my error in guess-timation and bow to your higher knowledge!

On a lighter note:

I don't know if this applies in your state or not, but you can get a form letter from the SSA stating your ineligibility to receive an SSN and take this to your DMV to apply for a drivers license if that is indeed acceptable to them. In GA it is. (It's called an SSN Denial form letter)

How about this one. Start bowing

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cf...php?p_faqid=576

It's a Form SSA-L676

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510#D2

RM 00203.510 Alien without Work Authorization - Nonwork Need for an SSN

IMPORTANT: Some State agencies may require that an alien applying for a benefit or service and alleging not to have an SSN obtain a written notice (Form SSA-L676) from SSA stating that SSA cannot assign the alien an SSN.

[rushter 0]

EDIT: (Ah dang it, you submitted yours before I completed mine... Here's my original response. Going to add to your second post below).

I can agree with you; however... The SSA doc is referring to 'Authorized to Work', NOT 'Authorized to get an SSN'.

And to correct my own flub, the document that you referenced is actually showing an effective date of March 2006 which is newer than the one I referenced Dec 2005.

But that's just it. Using the ssa authorized to work document to infer work priviledge does not necessarily infer direct priviledge to a social security number, as those required for an SSN are further reinforced here:

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx...33;opendocument

(Note Item C-2, non-work SSN Card)

Carry it further...

D. Policy - Evidence for a Replacement Card

They don't even give replacement cards for those that are not authorized to work! Now does that mean that the number originally issued is 'expired'... Hell I thought an ssn never expired unless the beneficiary expired too! (But the ability to get a real freakin card definitely expires at some point though)

Finally...

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx...33;opendocument

C. PROCEDURE - COMPLETING AND CODING THE SS-5

Evaluate an alien's INS documents and make certain the citizenship/alien status entries on the SS-5 and MES screens (item 3/citizenship block and the EVC, PRA and NWR blocks) are correct to ensure the alien gets the appropriate SSN card.

If the Alien ... Then...

Has an EAD Check “Legal Alien Allowed to Work,” enter “Y” in the EVC block and “N” in the PRA block.

<snip>

Does not have one of the documents listed above. Deny the SSN request. Issue the alien an SSA-L676.

Honestly, there are very specific instructions to deny ssn's to applicants based on their immigrant status. And I really think that the specific document in question that is being referred to as 'authority to work' by a K1 visa applicant is bogus and misleading because the real policy has never been refuted to that specific document. (ie, nobody ever edited the dang thing to reflect what should be happening in the field as DHS has specific cognizance over 'authority to work' re non-immigrants). The SSA's reference chart is bogus.

Heck fire, if All of this stuff is true... ( http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread....31422&pp=15 )

then my wife is definitely going to start looking for work tomorrow. She's tired of waiting for the ead.

First link you listed:

My immigration document shows K-1. How do I get a work Social Security number?

Question

I have come to the U.S. to marry my boyfriend. My immigration document shows “K-1.” How do I get a Social Security number so I can work?

Answer

The K-1 symbol on your immigration document indicates that you are the fiancé of a U.S. citizen and you are eligible to work. We, therefore, can assign you a number and card so that you can work.

To apply for a Social Security number:

* Complete an Application For A Social Security Card (Form SS-5); and

* Show us documents proving:

o Immigration status;

o Work eligibility;

o Age; and

o Identity.

* Take your completed application and documents to your local Social Security office.

All documents must be either originals or copies certified by the issuing agency. We cannot accept photocopies or notarized copies of documents.

For more detailed information, see Social Security Numbers For Noncitizens (Publication No. 05-10096) or Documents You Need for a Social Security Card.

Ahem.... Now if you look at that it says -Work eligibility-.

Which the SSA cannot and does not give. THAT, must come from the dhs.

Edited June 24, 2006 by rushter

[rushter 0]

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510#D2

RM 00203.510 Alien without Work Authorization - Nonwork Need for an SSN

IMPORTANT: Some State agencies may require that an alien applying for a benefit or service and alleging not to have an SSN obtain a written notice (Form SSA-L676) from SSA stating that SSA cannot assign the alien an SSN.

This is really a lame claim on the thread.

It basically refers to my original post regarding needing an SSN denial letter to get a drivers license. I'm not sure if that's the form my wife got from the ssa to get her license, but it worked... whatever it was they gave her. It was a cheap lame form letter from the ssa with her name on it.

Not bowing in defeat, However I do bow to your efforts to research the issue.

[I'm Gone 60]

They don't even give replacement cards for those that are not authorized to work! Now does that mean that the number originally issued is 'expired'... Hell I thought an ssn never expired unless the beneficiary expired too! (But the ability to get a real freakin card definitely expires at some point though)

People still can be issued a non work authorized SSN card, but you need a valid non work reason and documentation for needing it. In fact an illegal alien can get one.

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203560

RM 00203.560 Evidence for an SSN Card for an Illegal Alien

"A nonwork SSN may be assigned to an illegal or undocumented alien if an SSN is required as a condition to receive a federally-funded benefit and the individual has already provided documentation that he/she is entitled to the federally funded benefit."

The SSN and card never expire. In just about every case once assigned to a person it's their SSN to the grave and beyond. SSA doesn't reissue the number after a person dies.

If you were assigned a work authorized SSN and card, you ablity to be issued a replacement card ends when your work authorization is within 14 days of expiring. That's why a K-1 only has 76 days to be assigned an SSN with the I-94.

[rushter 0]

That's why a K-1 only has 76 days to be assigned an SSN with the I-94.

Now there's a FAQ that should be added to every K1 visa applicant!