Video of girl's flogging as Taliban hand out justice

[Bobby+Umit 161]

not sure if this has been brought up yet but my question is did the guy they suspect her having an affair with with get flogged too??

Usually, it's not the guys fault in that culture, because the "women" used her charms to seduce the man from clear thinking, or something like that.

[Heracles 417]

This is where the "non-intervention" policy serves well.

Reducing the types of punishments in the US has done nothing to curb the crime rate, so as our punishment has become "more humane", our crime rate has soared.

If you're worried about whether or not the person administering the punishment is enjoying it or not... that is for them to deal with in their own moral/belief system. If you want to avoid there being any pleasure from the person giving the punishment, I guess we can go back to the guillotine, the gallows, a firing squad, the gas chamber, or the electric chair. Canning of course could be an option, but you risk the chance that the person performing the canning would get their rocks off.

Rather than worrying about what happens in other countries, we should be more concerned about what goes on in our own.

Exactly and anyone who either works in law enforcement or reads the local paper in any major town or city will realize the current methods have failed. Some say crime has gone down so it must be working. Gone down from what? Instead of 10,000 rapes we now have 9,900 rapes. Wow what a decrease. What about zero rapes?

But my money says that people like Cleo or Six have never been a victim or crime or even seen a victim of crime. The good old its never happened to me so it must not be a problem. I have seen people on both sides of the fence so I know what I am talking about.

Someone with half a brain who spends a month in Singapore and then comes here or to any other passive western nation will realize, quick-smart, which system works and which one has failed.

Certain groups in western nations are too concerned with the criminals rights rather than the right of a innocent person to live free of violence. As is usually the case, these groups don't associate let alone live anywhere near the type people they are defending.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Constellation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They feel it's there right under their religious laws, so who are we to say different?

"She came out of her house with another guy who was not her husband, so we must punish her. There are boundaries you cannot cross," he said. He defended the Taliban's right to thrash women shoppers who were inappropriately dressed, saying it was permitted under Islamic law."

We can certainly condemn such actions - as they are totally incompatible with our world view of how justice is supposed to be prosecuted and meted out.

Dragging someone out of a house and executing a summary punishment goes against about a 1000 years of jurisprudence.

You can most certainly condemn the actions, but if the people in that area allow themselves to be govern by them, and allow others to "enforce" them, then those people should end it.

But religious laws or interpretations of them, trump common sense sometimes.

Imagine if people who follow the bible took notice of these passages:

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending what religious people do - far from it. People need to wake up and find strength in themselves, not in writings in ancient books.

The people are living under a tyranny, enforced by men with machine guns. Its easy to say what they *should* do, but organized resistances take time, effort and assistance to build.

That said... that's assuming of course that the people subjected to this sort of treatment are themselves not as fundamentalist in their outlook as the Taliban.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is where the "non-intervention" policy serves well.

Reducing the types of punishments in the US has done nothing to curb the crime rate, so as our punishment has become "more humane", our crime rate has soared.

If you're worried about whether or not the person administering the punishment is enjoying it or not... that is for them to deal with in their own moral/belief system. If you want to avoid there being any pleasure from the person giving the punishment, I guess we can go back to the guillotine, the gallows, a firing squad, the gas chamber, or the electric chair. Canning of course could be an option, but you risk the chance that the person performing the canning would get their rocks off.

Rather than worrying about what happens in other countries, we should be more concerned about what goes on in our own.

Exactly and anyone who either works in law enforcement or reads the local paper in any major town or city will realize the current methods have failed. Some say crime has gone down so it must be working. Gone down from what? Instead of 10,000 rapes we now have 9,900 rapes. Wow what a decrease. What about zero rapes?

But my money says that people like Cleo or Six have never been a victim or crime or even seen a victim of crime. The good old its never happened to me so it must not be a problem. I have seen people on both sides of the fence so I know what I am talking about.

Someone with half a brain who spends a month in Singapore and then comes here or to any other passive western nation will realize, quick-smart, which system works and which one has failed.

Certain groups in western nations are too concerned with the criminals rights rather than the right of a innocent person to live free of violence. As is usually the case, these groups don't associate let alone live anywhere near the type people they are defending.

That's not really accurate BY - you're relying on the idea that a person needs to be a victim of crime to appreciate the scale of the problem. That's bull - tbh. Being mugged or assaulted doesn't give you any profound insights into the sociology of crime, nor is it particularly useful in understanding how the justice system works.

The impartial jury trial system is designed specifically to avoid emotional prejudice from creeping into the mix and resulting in the sort of outcome where a person might say "he's black, of course he did the crime".

Noone's saying its perfect - but you BY, are the only one who's reads the news and seems to conclude the that the sky is falling, and that the urban US is some sort of lawless, post-apocalyptic wasteland where noone and nothing is safe; and where people are out for nothing else than what they can ####, steal or kill.

Its strange that you think crime is so out of control that we need to look to police states and totalitarian governments for solutions.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Private Pike

[justashooter 430]

Certain groups in western nations are too concerned with the criminals rights rather than the right of a innocent person to live free of violence. As is usually the case, these groups don't associate let alone live anywhere near the type people they are defending.

unfortunately, for various reasons, men are convicted even in our liberal justice system of crimes they have not committed. some estimates indicate that as much as 15% of persons in jails are innocent. a recent govenor of illinois commutted death sentences into life without parole before leaving office when faced with indisputable DNA evidence that certain men on death row in illinois were not guilty. harsh punishments and immediate execution look good on paper...

[*Robert* 2]

Certain groups in western nations are too concerned with the criminals rights rather than the right of a innocent person to live free of violence. As is usually the case, these groups don't associate let alone live anywhere near the type people they are defending.

unfortunately, for various reasons, men are convicted even in our liberal justice system of crimes they have not committed. some estimates indicate that as much as 15% of persons in jails are innocent. a recent govenor of illinois commutted death sentences into life without parole before leaving office when faced with indisputable DNA evidence that certain men on death row in illinois were not guilty. harsh punishments and immediate execution look good on paper...

That is certainly another area that needs to be fixed. Our justice system provides quality legal services for those who have the money, and inadequate legal services for the indigent, which is why so many innocent people get convicted.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's also institutional racism in some districts too - with blacks receiving harsher sentences than whites for equivalent crimes.

[fozzie 41]

Certain groups in western nations are too concerned with the criminals rights rather than the right of a innocent person to live free of violence. As is usually the case, these groups don't associate let alone live anywhere near the type people they are defending.

unfortunately, for various reasons, men are convicted even in our liberal justice system of crimes they have not committed. some estimates indicate that as much as 15% of persons in jails are innocent. a recent govenor of illinois commutted death sentences into life without parole before leaving office when faced with indisputable DNA evidence that certain men on death row in illinois were not guilty. harsh punishments and immediate execution look good on paper...

That is certainly another area that needs to be fixed. Our justice system provides quality legal services for those who have the money, and inadequate legal services for the indigent, which is why so many innocent people get convicted.

No system of justice if perfect. You have the right to be judged by your peers. However, If you were innocent would you put your life in the hands of 12 strangers who do not understand the legal issues at hand? That might not have much education? That have withheld bias during selection? Who may have their own agenda? No! I would have a judge preside over me. If I were guilty then thats another mater, I would definitely go with a Jury! You only need one to have some doubts!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Jury selection is actually pretty involved - my wife just got off a jury for a triple murder. The guy was found guilty in the end - but they went through 100 people over 2 weeks before they narrowed it down to the final 16.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

They feel it's there right under their religious laws, so who are we to say different?

"She came out of her house with another guy who was not her husband, so we must punish her. There are boundaries you cannot cross," he said. He defended the Taliban's right to thrash women shoppers who were inappropriately dressed, saying it was permitted under Islamic law."

We can certainly condemn such actions - as they are totally incompatible with our world view of how justice is supposed to be prosecuted and meted out.

Dragging someone out of a house and executing a summary punishment goes against about a 1000 years of jurisprudence.

<SNIP>

Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending what religious people do - far from it. People need to wake up and find strength in themselves, not in writings in ancient books.

The people are living under a tyranny, enforced by men with machine guns. Its easy to say what they *should* do, but organized resistances take time, effort and assistance to build.

That said... that's assuming of course that the people subjected to this sort of treatment are themselves not as fundamentalist in their outlook as the Taliban.

Correct, that is why here in the US, our founding fathers put in the 2nd admendment, so we can fight the tyranny in our own country, even if they have machine guns.

But like you pointed out, if the people want to be subjected to it, there is not much anyone can do.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Bobby_Umit

[missmissy 38]

Women can perform many of the same rolls men can, some even better I would imagine.

But I think it is clear woman are most often, more delicate in spirit and body.

You've obviously never been to northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia. Have you ever even traveled outside of the states? There is a big world with many different cultures outside of the southern US and many of those cultures are far more modern and progressive than that of the US.

I am curious about what you mean when you bring Scandinavia into this conversation....

[justashooter 430]

There's also institutional racism in some districts too - with blacks receiving harsher sentences than whites for equivalent crimes.

Paul, do you really believe that? Have you ever considered the question of recidivism? Why not lock up people less likely to be rehabilitated for longer, regardless of their color? Does the fact that color increases the likelihood of such classification suggest need for a change in the community these people come out of? Who is to blame for the community standard? Each man has only himself.

[justashooter 430]

Women can perform many of the same rolls men can, some even better I would imagine.

But I think it is clear woman are most often, more delicate in spirit and body.

You've obviously never been to northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia. Have you ever even traveled outside of the states? There is a big world with many different cultures outside of the southern US and many of those cultures are far more modern and progressive than that of the US.

I am curious about what you mean when you bring Scandinavia into this conversation....

prolly someone who has never worked with danes.

[Danno 1,228]

Women can perform many of the same rolls men can, some even better I would imagine.

But I think it is clear woman are most often, more delicate in spirit and body.

You've obviously never been to northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia. Have you ever even traveled outside of the states? There is a big world with many different cultures outside of the southern US and many of those cultures are far more modern and progressive than that of the US.

Just because we might not agree, doesn't mean we haven't based our opinions off the same observations.

I may not be the great world traveler you are but I have been to at least a doz. countries, Norway and Finland are two (are those, "Northern Europe" enough for you?)

I hope in your next post you will spend more time voicing your "points of disagreement" rather than your assumptions.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's also institutional racism in some districts too - with blacks receiving harsher sentences than whites for equivalent crimes.

Paul, do you really believe that? Have you ever considered the question of recidivism? Why not lock up people less likely to be rehabilitated for longer, regardless of their color? Does the fact that color increases the likelihood of such classification suggest need for a change in the community these people come out of? Who is to blame for the community standard? Each man has only himself.

Please - could you be any more spurious.