Speeding Ticket and Naturalization

[KyngSilva 0]

Here's what the Guide to Naturalization says:

Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you

do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was

alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and

incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than

$500 and/or points on your driver's license.

As I have said elsewhere - you may also read the tag on your mattress that says "Do not remove under penalty of law" and then disclose the removal of the mattress tag as a 'crime'. Yes, do what makes you comfortable, but I think people are being very paranoid - the cases sited where people got into trouble - in one domestic violence was involved, in another an actual arrest took place - a traffic ticket or as others have said, a parking ticket do not rise to the level of crimes in my interpretation - what next - the notice of overdue library books is also a crime now? Yes some people think so - especially the library! Relax and put things into perspective. If you are going to portray yourselves as a criminal for dreaming about blowing up Washington DC (after having watched it in the movie Independence day) - so be it. Good Luck

LOL....The tag on the mattress does not apply to the owner of the mattress. You can cut away all your tags that say that when you buy your mattress. Now if you went into a mattress store and cut the tag, you would be a trouble. And YES you should put that down on your N-400 =)

Speeding in most states is a Petty Misdemeanor which is cited , you broke the law and that's an offense. 90 in a 55 can also be tagged as a Misdemeanor for reckless driving. Report all your traffic violations!!! There are a lot of people on here that do not disclose that information or tell people not to disclose the information. Let me ask you this " Would you like to be denied citizenship based on not providing that information?" Then who do you hold accountable for giving you bad information? It's better to be safe then sorry. Good Luck.

PS it's not paranoia, it's about dealing with people on a government level who will pick apart your application just because they can and deny you.

I read on another forum about somebody being denied because of a couple of traffic tickets. Or other people being delayed.

I called already twice and spoke with an I/O. They started to laugh when I asked. They said that if an arrest wasn't involved, then they don't want to hear about traffic tickets.

What happens if your I/O that is looking at your file has a crappy day and decides to take it out on your file? It DOESN'T hurt to put it in there. Your filling out a federal form. Any acts of omission or failure to report information can constitute your application incomplete or you can be denied for failing to report information or even worse a judgment on your moral character. I'd rather have it in there, then not have it in there and be denied because some person at the USCIS told me it did not matter. Heck they say their Employee numbers and names so fast, I can never get their name or number. Your application is also a test of good moral character. The information you put in there regardless of the fact, test how honest you are about every question they ask you. Yes some people have not reported, and have passed their interviews and got their citizenship. That's Awesome!! But we all know that the USCIS works very differently on each file.

Report it so you can sleep well at night, or don't report it and toss your chips up in the air.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Report it so you can sleep well at night, or don't report it and toss your chips up in the air.

And what happens if the same officer having a crappy day decides to give you hard time and deny you or delay you by months for a stupid speeding ticket?

I'll sleep anyways, but I don't want to have a chance of being denied like it happened to the other guy. I'm not going to report them.

If asked if I had traffic tickets under oath I'll say yes, and tell them I didn't report them because instructed to do so.

I'll go even further, I'll have a recently issued driving record that shows that my DL is valid, therefore all tickets have been paid.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Italian_in_NYC

[KyngSilva 0]

Your driving record is not a federal document that you failed to put information that asks for it. Who are you going to say instructed you? You think the I/O really cares that you received incorrect information? The question clearly states and is simple to read

15. Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested. The key words are committed a crime and not arrested here. =). Getting a speeding ticket is breaking the law. By breaking the law you commit a crime or an offense. It's not an arrestable offense, but it's a petty misdemeanor which you get cited for and not arrested. Getting cited means.......Yes you broke the law and you committed a crime...or else you would have not got cited if you did not break the law. sigh

Now on to the bottom part of the page

If you answered Yes to any Question 15 through 21, complete the following table. If you need more spaces, use a separate sheet of paper to give the same information

The key term in that table Cited. A traffic ticket is a citation. No where on this form does it ask you how much the citation was for, it asks you to list the important information about the citation. This leaves it open for them to interpret and not us

The I/O looking over your file doesn't know you from Adam. Your trying to create a good impression and show you have good moral character. Failure to report the information ...ummm....umm.. doesn't really show good moral character.

It's not that your DL is invalid or you DL record is clear, it's the fact that you knowingly did not put information in your FEDERAL application for naturalization. This is not a job application people.

Anyways....good on you mate, that's the best part about this country FREEDOM to choose to do what you want to do =) Good luck and best wishes my friend

[KyngSilva 0]

To add to this

16. Have You ever been arrested cited or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason. Any reason is key here. ANY REASON =). Being cited for speeding is a reason.

Also being stopped for speeding means you are being detained by a law enforcement officer. Your not free (being detained) to leave till the officer issues you a citation for speeding.

[kiko 0]

Your driving record is not a federal document that you failed to put information that asks for it. Who are you going to say instructed you? You think the I/O really cares that you received incorrect information? The question clearly states and is simple to read

15. Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested. The key words are committed a crime and not arrested here. =). Getting a speeding ticket is breaking the law. By breaking the law you commit a crime or an offense. It's not an arrestable offense, but it's a petty misdemeanor which you get cited for and not arrested. Getting cited means.......Yes you broke the law and you committed a crime...or else you would have not got cited if you did not break the law. sigh

Now on to the bottom part of the page

If you answered Yes to any Question 15 through 21, complete the following table. If you need more spaces, use a separate sheet of paper to give the same information

The key term in that table Cited. A traffic ticket is a citation. No where on this form does it ask you how much the citation was for, it asks you to list the important information about the citation. This leaves it open for them to interpret and not us

The I/O looking over your file doesn't know you from Adam. Your trying to create a good impression and show you have good moral character. Failure to report the information ...ummm....umm.. doesn't really show good moral character.

It's not that your DL is invalid or you DL record is clear, it's the fact that you knowingly did not put information in your FEDERAL application for naturalization. This is not a job application people.

Anyways....good on you mate, that's the best part about this country FREEDOM to choose to do what you want to do =) Good luck and best wishes my friend

you worry too much man...it's a traffic violation not a crime....relax

[MsAnn 0]

Your naturalization application can get denied for lying under oath, even if what you lied about is not something they could use to deny your application. The Guide to Naturalization CLEARLY states that you must disclose even minor traffic tickets, and if the fine was under $500 that you don't need documentation. Lying on your application is very foolish

[KyngSilva 0]

Oh I'm far from worried kiko =) I believe people should to be truthful on their applications. Oh and btw it is a crime according to most state statutes, that's why there is a citation. If it wasn't a crime we would all be allowed to speed and not get tickets. =) Cheers mate

Edited April 20, 2009 by KyngSilva

[warlord 73]

People really get confused by this one. It's been a hot topic before. You do not have to disclose speeding tickets if they are under $500 and are not DUI related. This is from the INS itself (I called when I was wondering during my N-400 time, many others have been told the same thing). Lawyers I talked to also verified that. In my interview my IO found out I went to court twice for traffic fines. I had not disclosed them, but he asked if I was ever in court. I told him yes (at the time any speeding tickets resulted in mandatory court in the county I was in). Once he found out they were just speeding tickets he didn't care. I asked him if I should have disclosed those and he stated NO.

The general thing is if you have a lot of other issues with your N-400 then sure go ahead and disclose them just to prove that you have been paying them. If you don't have any other issues and your case is straight forward then no, you don't need to worry about them. If worse comes to worse, they'll just ask you at the interview to submit proof of payment which you can do afterwards. Several people had been asked this before when they didn't disclose their tickets, but did have other issues on their N-400...

[lucas_34 4]

What about getting a citation because of failing to control speed and rear ending another vehicle (fender bender kind of thing, no major damage, no injuries at all, no court, just a ticket)? Should this be disclosed?

[baron555 934]

What about getting a citation because of failing to control speed and rear ending another vehicle (fender bender kind of thing, no major damage, no injuries at all, no court, just a ticket)? Should this be disclosed?

Please? You're joking? A traffic ticket is not a crime.

[jasminelily 1]

Referring to http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf

Page 8, Q&A 7.

Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you

do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was

alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and

incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than

$500 and/or points on your driver’s license.

My point: "Do not need to submit documentation" doesn't mean "do not need to disclose". We have to disclose everything that we've rub across the shoulder with the law, even very minor incidents, e.g. speeding ticket. It said very clearly "USCIS may deny your application if you do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident."

Referring to http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-400.pdf

Page 8.

D. Good Moral Character

15. Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested?

Speeding ticket is an offense, police usually give ticket then let go, so not arrested, but still committed an offense. So to answer the question, have to put yes. Also put the outcome on the boxes below. If not disclosed, then it gives USCIS ground for denial by lying on the form (said no to the question). Disclosing the speeding ticket would not cause denial, but not disclosing the speeding ticket may cause a denial.

16. Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason?

Police is law enforcement officer. If police give someone a speeding ticket, it's a citation, doesn't matter the disposition after court, have to disclose it, also put the outcome on the boxes below. If not disclosed, then it gives USCIS ground for denial by lying on the form (said no to the question). Disclosing the speeding ticket would not cause denial, but not disclosing the speeding ticket may cause a denial.

17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?

The speeding ticket is a charge. Doesn't matter if the charge get dismissed after court, it's still a charge. So have to answer yes, also put the outcome on the boxes below. If not disclosed, then it gives USCIS ground for denial by lying on the form (said no to the question). Disclosing the speeding ticket would not cause denial, but not disclosing the speeding ticket may cause a denial.

18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?

Now this one is a little tricky. If someone just pay the speeding ticket, it means that someone admitted to speeding (broke the law), then pay the fine as penalty, so that someone was convicted of an offense. If someone went to court to defended himself/herself, then the judge said "not enough evidence/police not present during this trial/whatever reason, charge dismissed", then that someone was not convicted.

I hope that I've made my explanation clear. But disclosing on the form or not, it's really up to everyone's own decision. The IO may confirm all the answers on the form during interview, then you can tell the IO during the interview about the speeding ticket, most likely the IO will decide that speeding ticket doesn't cause a deny and make a note on the file saying "speeding ticket only". But what if the IO didn't ask, then USCIS found out later? USCIS may take back the approval decision and give a denial instead because of the "purposefully/deliberately non-disclosure in order to obtain/gain immigration benefits". It really is up to one's choice of taking that risk or not.

People really get confused by this one. It's been a hot topic before. You do not have to disclose speeding tickets if they are under $500 and are not DUI related. This is from the INS itself (I called when I was wondering during my N-400 time, many others have been told the same thing). Lawyers I talked to also verified that. In my interview my IO found out I went to court twice for traffic fines. I had not disclosed them, but he asked if I was ever in court. I told him yes (at the time any speeding tickets resulted in mandatory court in the county I was in). Once he found out they were just speeding tickets he didn't care. I asked him if I should have disclosed those and he stated NO.

The general thing is if you have a lot of other issues with your N-400 then sure go ahead and disclose them just to prove that you have been paying them. If you don't have any other issues and your case is straight forward then no, you don't need to worry about them. If worse comes to worse, they'll just ask you at the interview to submit proof of payment which you can do afterwards. Several people had been asked this before when they didn't disclose their tickets, but did have other issues on their N-400...

What about getting a citation because of failing to control speed and rear ending another vehicle (fender bender kind of thing, no major damage, no injuries at all, no court, just a ticket)? Should this be disclosed?

Please? You're joking? A traffic ticket is not a crime.

It is not a crime. But it is a citation and an offense to the law.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

This is pure paranoia and being scared of immigration.

Relax, N-400 instructions are clearly flawed and are meant for DUIs and reckless driving infractions, which, not by chance, lead to arrests.

Do you think not having put the blinker on is relevant to the naturalization process?

Also, I twice asked to an I/O and twice I got the same answer.

[jasminelily 1]

This is pure paranoia and being scared of immigration.

Relax, N-400 instructions are clearly flawed and are meant for DUIs and reckless driving infractions, which, not by chance, lead to arrests.

Do you think not having put the blinker on is relevant to the naturalization process?

Also, I twice asked to an I/O and twice I got the same answer.

Again, it's my understanding of what the instructions mean. I'm not scared of immigration, I'm doing what the instructions had instructed me to do. Again, it's up to one's own explanation of the instructions and decision of disclosing parking/speeding ticket or not. I'm just stating the fact of what I'm doing, anyone can take my advice or not, I won't get mad or frustrated if someone doesn't take my advice or have a different opinion or understanding of what the instructions mean. I don't gain anything if someone follow what I do. I don't lose anything if someone doesn't follow what I do. This is a forum for civilized discussions. I can understand that this is a heat topic, but there's no winning or losing by convincing other people to do it your/our way, so no need to make negative comments or remarks about any person or post.

[Rigoletto 0]

Your driving record is not a federal document that you failed to put information that asks for it. Who are you going to say instructed you? You think the I/O really cares that you received incorrect information? The question clearly states and is simple to read

15. Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were NOT arrested. The key words are committed a crime and not arrested here. =). Getting a speeding ticket is breaking the law. By breaking the law you commit a crime or an offense. It's not an arrestable offense, but it's a petty misdemeanor which you get cited for and not arrested. Getting cited means.......Yes you broke the law and you committed a crime...or else you would have not got cited if you did not break the law. sigh

Now on to the bottom part of the page

If you answered Yes to any Question 15 through 21, complete the following table. If you need more spaces, use a separate sheet of paper to give the same information

The key term in that table Cited. A traffic ticket is a citation. No where on this form does it ask you how much the citation was for, it asks you to list the important information about the citation. This leaves it open for them to interpret and not us

The I/O looking over your file doesn't know you from Adam. Your trying to create a good impression and show you have good moral character. Failure to report the information ...ummm....umm.. doesn't really show good moral character.

It's not that your DL is invalid or you DL record is clear, it's the fact that you knowingly did not put information in your FEDERAL application for naturalization. This is not a job application people.

Anyways....good on you mate, that's the best part about this country FREEDOM to choose to do what you want to do =) Good luck and best wishes my friend

Sigh....you seem to assume that the plain meaning of words such as "crime" and "offense" governs.

I suggest you look up the definitions in your state penal code - I especially suggest looking at the words "crime," "offense," and

"moving violation." The terms are distinct.

For someone who has an ordinary traffic citation, i.e. a mere "moving violation," the answer to this question is almost certainly

NO, because a "moving violation," barring additional circumstances/enhancements (e.g. alcohol) is NOT a crime or an offense.

In plain language it may be, but plain language doesn't govern.

Incidentally, referring to your next post, you are correct regarding Question 16. It asks whether you have been "cited" - if you

received a traffic ticket, you have been "cited" and should answer YES. If the express conditions apply ($500 cap and no

alcohol etc.), no documentation need be provided.

[jsnearline 2]

N-400 instructions are clearly flawed...

Then I suggest you contact USCIS and ask them to change the instructions. Don't go on the verbal assurance of anyone, even if they are a government official.

If there is any confusion on how to answer, I would advise that people err on the side of being truthful and disclosing too much instead of too little. If you fail to disclose something, you could be denied, or your citizenship could be taken away at a later time if USCIS eventually finds out. Now, granted, the odds of these sanctions probably aren't that great, but it doesn't matter what the odds are if you end up being the unlucky target of them.

It seems strange to me the people who say not to discose are asked what they would have to lose by telling the whole truth, their response is to accuse those of us who choose to be up front and honest on our applications of being paranoid.