FilipinaHeart.com Responds to my IMBRA Question

[Pete 0]

Thought many of you might be interested to read this. Filipinaheart.com is a hugely popular site owned by Australians (who also own many other dating internet sites). This is their response to me:

"Dear Member,

Thank you for contacting us and congratulations!

We are exempt from the IMBRA law under the provisions of section 4 ( b ) (ii), however we are in the process of implementing an information form so that those US members who are seeking marriage may complete the required information. It is our understanding that it may be beneficial to the Spouse Visa Application if US men complete the information specified in the IMBRA regulations.

However, we need to inform you that the law commenced March 6, therefore it will be applicable if you and your fiancee met after 6 March. If you met prior to this date the law will not be applicable therefore you will not be required to complete the form.

We would love to hear your success story and share it with all our other members.

If you would like to submit your success story, please do so by email to team@FilipinaHeart.com or by submitting it on the site. There is a link to add your success story on the home page of our site.

We wish you every happiness in the future and thank you for your valued membership at our site.

Please contact us if you require any further assistance.

Regards

team@FilipinaHeart.com"

[jangler 0]

I also met my fiance through a site owned by the same company as FilipinaHeart.com and I was wondering about the same thing. Thank you so much for that information. I fail to see that if the government considered these sites as Marriage Brokers, how is anyone going to answer the next question which is,...if so provide the name and where the international broker is located. How many people can actually "dig" deep to find out who made that website and where their headquarters are located?! A site called www.taiwandatesforyou.com could actually be owned by someone in Texas or Ohio USA! How many applicants would really be able to answer that question?

[Imbra2005 0]

Considering (1) that you're taking the agency's own interpretation of whether or not they are exempt (they sort of have a dog in the fight, you know?); and (2) that there may be serious consequences if you guess wrongly, it may make sense to seek and rely on the the advice of qualified legal counsel.

[hotairguy 0]

Reading the law, it seems that if you met your fiancée through any third party that required you to pay any kind of fee, it would be considered a marriage broker. If the site doesn't provide owner or contact information, you can use "whois" to look up the owner of any registered domain name.

Marilyn and Peter.

Edited June 22, 2006 by hotairguy

[gimmie 0]

Reading the law, it seems that if you met your fiancée through any third party that required you to pay any kind of fee, it would be considered a marriage broker. If the site doesn't provide owner or contact information, you can use "whois" to look up the owner of any registered domain name.

Marilyn and Peter.

Where can I read this law?

[hotairguy 0]

You can find it on the Internet but just take a look at the revised I-129F form and how it describes marriage brokers. The USCIS interpretation is the only one that matters.

Marilyn and Peter.

[aussiewench 9]

Reading the law, it seems that if you met your fiancée through any third party that required you to pay any kind of fee, it would be considered a marriage broker. If the site doesn't provide owner or contact information, you can use "whois" to look up the owner of any registered domain name.

Marilyn and Peter.

Not necessarily as many that charge a fee to members fall under the exemptions.

[luvaLimey 0]

They are mistaken though: if you met before March 6th, but filed on or after for the visa, you are still subject to the IMBRA compliance.

It has nothing to do with when you met, and everything to do with when you filed, or else why has my application been sitting there gathering dust?

[ellmoi 0]

hi, i'm also in the same situation, i met my finace on asianeuro.com, also same company that owns filipinaheart.com.... i'm wondering if someone could shed a light to our situation.. i have a few questions..

1) we met "online" at asianeuro.com on december 4, 2005 - so we are not affected by IMBRA law because it took effect on march 6?

2) but asianeuro.com charges a fee for membership if someone wants to contact one member (chat, email), so is it considered a marriage broker?

3) my fiance and i has been corresponding for about 6 months now and we will meet "face to face" in july and he will file k1 petition in august, so that would mean we are affected by IMBRA law now? and that should we say YES or NO if we meet through a marriage broker? and i'm wondering if asianeuro.com is considered a marriage broker site..

please , i'm a little confused.. thanks a lot - aix

[Brian and Amy 0]

hi, i'm also in the same situation, i met my finace on asianeuro.com, also same company that owns filipinaheart.com.... i'm wondering if someone could shed a light to our situation.. i have a few questions..

1) we met "online" at asianeuro.com on december 4, 2005 - so we are not affected by IMBRA law because it took effect on march 6?

2) but asianeuro.com charges a fee for membership if someone wants to contact one member (chat, email), so is it considered a marriage broker?

3) my fiance and i has been corresponding for about 6 months now and we will meet "face to face" in july and he will file k1 petition in august, so that would mean we are affected by IMBRA law now? and that should we say YES or NO if we meet through a marriage broker? and i'm wondering if asianeuro.com is considered a marriage broker site..

please , i'm a little confused.. thanks a lot - aix

It's not when you met that matters. It's when you file your petiton that matters. If you have not yet filed, then you definately fall under IMBRA. Also, the site you met through does charge a fee, and does specifically "market" persay Asian-American relationships/marriage, so it would qualify as a marriage broker, so you would answer yes.

[ellmoi 0]

oh wow i see..

[jangler 0]

Sorry but I disagree. AsianEuro.com, like most other sites, is exempt because the law clearly states, " EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is NOT to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s gender or country of citizenship."

AsianEuro and similar sites provide a place for people from ANY country, NOT principally between United States citizens and foreign nationals, to find PENPALS, LANGUAGE PRACTICE, FRIENDS, or MARRIAGE to others from ANY country. You can join AsianEuro if you are from Great Britain and find someone from Iceland.

The site clearly states...

"WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE?

The purpose of this site is to assist people to find an Asian partner for friendship, language practice, romance or possible marriage.

I'M NOT ASIAN CAN I STILL JOIN?

Yes everyone is welcome to join, in fact many Asian ladies are specifically seeking a non-Asian partner. Some are also seeking an Asian partner or partner of an overseas Asian background. "

They are NOT principally geared for Americans!

Edited June 23, 2006 by jangler

[ellmoi 0]

oh wow very well said.. now i have some light about our situation.. thank you for the input - aix

[zethris 0]

hi, i'm also in the same situation, i met my finace on asianeuro.com, also same company that owns filipinaheart.com.... i'm wondering if someone could shed a light to our situation.. i have a few questions..

1) we met "online" at asianeuro.com on december 4, 2005 - so we are not affected by IMBRA law because it took effect on march 6?

2) but asianeuro.com charges a fee for membership if someone wants to contact one member (chat, email), so is it considered a marriage broker?

3) my fiance and i has been corresponding for about 6 months now and we will meet "face to face" in july and he will file k1 petition in august, so that would mean we are affected by IMBRA law now? and that should we say YES or NO if we meet through a marriage broker? and i'm wondering if asianeuro.com is considered a marriage broker site..

please , i'm a little confused.. thanks a lot - aix

It's not when you met that matters. It's when you file your petiton that matters. If you have not yet filed, then you definately fall under IMBRA. Also, the site you met through does charge a fee, and does specifically "market" persay Asian-American relationships/marriage, so it would qualify as a marriage broker, so you would answer yes.

No, none of these websites qualify under a mariage broker definition. That is incorrect information. A mariage broker is a mariage broker.

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(cool.gif EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

Part A means: no website such as the above examples (yahoo, eharmony, match, etc) can be classified as an IMB because they don't physicaly arrange "dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals."

#1 You find who you want to talk to yourself. If you want to try to say a search engine is defined as a referral I would disagree because no one is physically refering you to someone, you are searching on your own.

#2 Personal contact information is defined as a real name, physical address, and/or phone number. Nothing else. IMB's offer this. Social gathering websites like the above do not by default offer this, it is generaly given in private forms of communication by the actuall user, and NOT by the website's officers.

ref: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18770

Because these social gathering websites DO NOT physically arange an in person meeting or mariage, they do not broker mariages to be classified as a mariage broker. Furthermore, even though it may charge a fee to operate, it is no different than your paying a fee to use premium features of ANY other website. While the end result of websites such as asianeuro may be to start a friendship with someone that may lead to a relationship or mariage, it is simply a side effect that happens when a form of communication is opened that previously didn't exist.

Otherwise, is World of Warcraft, a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game for the PC that boasts over 5 million people a Mariage broker? Going by what a couple people here want to say about social gathering websites, that must mean it is due to the fact that multiple mariages have resulted from the friendships developed online through that game.

Sorry but I disagree. AsianEuro.com, like most other sites, is exempt because the law clearly states, " EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is NOT to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s gender or country of citizenship."

AsianEuro and similar sites provide a place for people from ANY country, NOT principally between United States citizens and foreign nationals, to find PENPALS, LANGUAGE PRACTICE, FRIENDS, or MARRIAGE to others from ANY country. You can join AsianEuro if you are from Great Britain and find someone from Iceland.

The site clearly states...

"WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE?

The purpose of this site is to assist people to find an Asian partner for friendship, language practice, romance or possible marriage.

I'M NOT ASIAN CAN I STILL JOIN?

Yes everyone is welcome to join, in fact many Asian ladies are specifically seeking a non-Asian partner. Some are also seeking an Asian partner or partner of an overseas Asian background. "

They are NOT principally geared for Americans!

I fully agree to this, and it is even another arguement against the idea that social gathering websites like asianeuro.com are IMB's.

Edited June 23, 2006 by zethris

[hotairguy 0]

Sorry but I disagree. AsianEuro.com, like most other sites, is exempt because the law clearly states, " EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its principal business is NOT to provide international dating services between United States citizens or United States residents and foreign nationals and it charges comparable rates and offers comparable services to all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s gender or country of citizenship."

AsianEuro and similar sites provide a place for people from ANY country, NOT principally between United States citizens and foreign nationals, to find PENPALS, LANGUAGE PRACTICE, FRIENDS, or MARRIAGE to others from ANY country. You can join AsianEuro if you are from Great Britain and find someone from Iceland.

The site clearly states...

"WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS SITE?

The purpose of this site is to assist people to find an Asian partner for friendship, language practice, romance or possible marriage.

I'M NOT ASIAN CAN I STILL JOIN?

Yes everyone is welcome to join, in fact many Asian ladies are specifically seeking a non-Asian partner. Some are also seeking an Asian partner or partner of an overseas Asian background. "

They are NOT principally geared for Americans!

I believe you are incorrect, If you define your situation from the instructions on the new I-129F. Either way, answering yes or no does not exclude you from filing a petition. Why is everyone so worried about answering yes? Instead of trying to split hairs, answer yes if you fit the critera on the new I-129F form or the RFE and don't worry so much.

Marilyn and Peter.

Edited June 24, 2006 by hotairguy