Proof of relationship (K1 - BKK)

[rsn 135]

I've been reading that consulate officers want to see not only me calling and initiating conversations w/ my fiancee, but apparently they also want to see her doing the same with me. Here is the problem:

1.) I can't prove that she has called me on my cell (the only phone I have).

2.) I can't prove that she has sent me text messages.

Why you ask? According to my cellular provider, I can only obtain this information with a subpoena due to "privacy laws". Now I've heard everything.

Anyway, what I do have is (as far as proving an ongoing & legitimate relationship:

1.) A record of text messages I have sent to her (no content, need a subpoena for that too)

2.) All emails she has sent to me

3.) Some instant messenger convos with screenshots showing webcam activity

4.) Call logs showing I have called her

5.) Receipts for flowers I have sent her

6.) e-cards from her

7.) itineraries, passports stamps, etc showing almost 3 months of time spent in Thailand spread over 4 trips since I met her

8.) lots of photos

Does this seem sufficient, or should I be doing/collecting more?

[johndecka 0]

I've been reading that consulate officers want to see not only me calling and initiating conversations w/ my fiancee, but apparently they also want to see her doing the same with me. Here is the problem:

1.) I can't prove that she has called me on my cell (the only phone I have).

2.) I can't prove that she has sent me text messages.

Why you ask? According to my cellular provider, I can only obtain this information with a subpoena due to "privacy laws". Now I've heard everything.

Who's ur provider? mine isT-mobile.

What you can do is you could register ur # on line with ur service provider.

Then you could see ur calls,received calls,send and received text messaes for past 11months.

[Dakine 26]

I've been reading that consulate officers want to see not only me calling and initiating conversations w/ my fiancee, but apparently they also want to see her doing the same with me. Here is the problem:

1.) I can't prove that she has called me on my cell (the only phone I have).

2.) I can't prove that she has sent me text messages.

Why you ask? According to my cellular provider, I can only obtain this information with a subpoena due to "privacy laws". Now I've heard everything.

Anyway, what I do have is (as far as proving an ongoing & legitimate relationship:

1.) A record of text messages I have sent to her (no content, need a subpoena for that too)

2.) All emails she has sent to me

3.) Some instant messenger convos with screenshots showing webcam activity

4.) Call logs showing I have called her

5.) Receipts for flowers I have sent her

6.) e-cards from her

7.) itineraries, passports stamps, etc showing almost 3 months of time spent in Thailand spread over 4 trips since I met her

8.) lots of photos

Does this seem sufficient, or should I be doing/collecting more?

More ammo the better. I'd get a long distance service that has monthly records of all call.

You are going for a basically one time shot and need to hit them with both barrells

Edited March 28, 2009 by Haole

[AaronLV 12]

You can get the incoming text messages to your phone from your provider, but not the content (that does take a court order, and normally it is only saved for a short period, depending on your provider). However they wanted to see the content, not just the fact she was text messaging me. With almost every mobile phone there is a way to pull the data off the phone, showing the content of the text messages, and the fact that she calls and hangs up and you call back. You have most of what we had when we went in the first time, we had very few emails, and I had blocked out the conversation on the IM, so if you don't do that you should be fine, hopefully, but I would try to get some more evidence of her contacting you.

[rsn 135]

You can get the incoming text messages to your phone from your provider, but not the content (that does take a court order, and normally it is only saved for a short period, depending on your provider). However they wanted to see the content, not just the fact she was text messaging me. With almost every mobile phone there is a way to pull the data off the phone, showing the content of the text messages, and the fact that she calls and hangs up and you call back. You have most of what we had when we went in the first time, we had very few emails, and I had blocked out the conversation on the IM, so if you don't do that you should be fine, hopefully, but I would try to get some more evidence of her contacting you.

I can't get incoming text message numbers from my provider, they told me it is against their privacy policy and I need a court order. As far as pulling the data off the phone, I have a super-simple old Nokia phone that only has enough memory to store a handful of text messages and only my last 10 missed calls. Furthermore, I don't have a way to pull any data off this phone. The best I can do is have her send emails to a special email address which then forwards them on to my phone. When she does this, I have a record of the message in my inbox. I assume the embassy will not reject our application without incoming text messages logs and missed call logs, because there is simply no way for me to provide this information. I can show them the letter from my cell phone company (US Cellular) as proof.

[rsn 135]

but I would try to get some more evidence of her contacting you.

My fiancee is going to sign up for a monthly contract with her cell phone service (AIS) and place a few short calls to me every week (3 or so). This way we can show she has at least made a few calls to me. Think this will help?

[rsn 135]

I've been reading that consulate officers want to see not only me calling and initiating conversations w/ my fiancee, but apparently they also want to see her doing the same with me. Here is the problem:

1.) I can't prove that she has called me on my cell (the only phone I have).

2.) I can't prove that she has sent me text messages.

Why you ask? According to my cellular provider, I can only obtain this information with a subpoena due to "privacy laws". Now I've heard everything.

Anyway, what I do have is (as far as proving an ongoing & legitimate relationship:

1.) A record of text messages I have sent to her (no content, need a subpoena for that too)

2.) All emails she has sent to me

3.) Some instant messenger convos with screenshots showing webcam activity

4.) Call logs showing I have called her

5.) Receipts for flowers I have sent her

6.) e-cards from her

7.) itineraries, passports stamps, etc showing almost 3 months of time spent in Thailand spread over 4 trips since I met her

8.) lots of photos

Does this seem sufficient, or should I be doing/collecting more?

More ammo the better. I'd get a long distance service that has monthly records of all call.

You are going for a basically one time shot and need to hit them with both barrells

It would have to be a cell phone, and I don't plan on shopping around for a new cell phone service.

[AaronLV 12]

You can get the incoming text messages to your phone from your provider, but not the content (that does take a court order, and normally it is only saved for a short period, depending on your provider). However they wanted to see the content, not just the fact she was text messaging me. With almost every mobile phone there is a way to pull the data off the phone, showing the content of the text messages, and the fact that she calls and hangs up and you call back. You have most of what we had when we went in the first time, we had very few emails, and I had blocked out the conversation on the IM, so if you don't do that you should be fine, hopefully, but I would try to get some more evidence of her contacting you.

I can't get incoming text message numbers from my provider, they told me it is against their privacy policy and I need a court order. As far as pulling the data off the phone, I have a super-simple old Nokia phone that only has enough memory to store a handful of text messages and only my last 10 missed calls. Furthermore, I don't have a way to pull any data off this phone. The best I can do is have her send emails to a special email address which then forwards them on to my phone. When she does this, I have a record of the message in my inbox. I assume the embassy will not reject our application without incoming text messages logs and missed call logs, because there is simply no way for me to provide this information. I can show them the letter from my cell phone company (US Cellular) as proof.

I think you might be asking your mobile provider the wrong question, or they are misunderstanding what you are asking for. Tell them you need a call detail of your incoming / outgoing text messages, not the content just the fact you are getting text messages from a particular number.

Have her start calling you and answer the phone, sure it costs more, but then you will have some record of her calling you.

You are right they won't reject your application because you don't have those, but they may reject it if they don't believe there is good faith in your relationship going both ways. That is really what they are looking for, not that you have the evidence, just that there is sufficient evidence that the communication is two-way not a one way street.

[rsn 135]

Who's ur provider? mine isT-mobile.

What you can do is you could register ur # on line with ur service provider.

Then you could see ur calls,received calls,send and received text messaes for past 11months.

I have U.S. Cellular which is the only service that works well where I live. I'm not sure I understand your suggestion.

[AaronLV 12]

My fiancee is going to sign up for a monthly contract with her cell phone service (AIS) and place a few short calls to me every week (3 or so). This way we can show she has at least made a few calls to me. Think this will help?

That was the first thing our lawyer had Nam do when she met with them. They told her get a plan that can get a detail call record. We had 4 months of records on both showing incoming/outgoing text messages on my bill, and then just outgoing on hers. Of course she had just a few outgoing phone calls on the bill to me. She said they didn't even look at her cell phone bills.

[rsn 135]

I think you might be asking your mobile provider the wrong question, or they are misunderstanding what you are asking for. Tell them you need a call detail of your incoming / outgoing text messages, not the content just the fact you are getting text messages from a particular number.

Have her start calling you and answer the phone, sure it costs more, but then you will have some record of her calling you.

You are right they won't reject your application because you don't have those, but they may reject it if they don't believe there is good faith in your relationship going both ways. That is really what they are looking for, not that you have the evidence, just that there is sufficient evidence that the communication is two-way not a one way street.

I'm pretty sure they understood my original request, and if they didn't I don't think there is any other way to ask them in simpler terms. Based on their response (and what I have seen in detailed bills in the past) there doesn't appear to be any way to get logs of ANY incoming numbers at all, whether it is incoming text messages or incoming calls, so having her call me is only going to help up out if she is able to provide her call logs from her provider. To do this she will have to sign up on a monthly plan w/ AIS, and she is planning on doing that soon.

Here is the email thread with my cellular provider. Their response is at the top, and my original questions are at the bottom:

Dear ,

Thank you for contacting our U.S. Cellular Online Customer Care

Department. We can send you a copy of your bill with message detail

showing all the numbers text messages were sent to. You just have to

call our Customer Service Department at the number listed below to

request the reprint. Incoming numbers cannot be displayed on the bill

due to U.S. Cellular privacy regulations. Incoming numbers can only be

obtained with a court ordered subpoena.

Text message content will be available for release within three to five

business days of the text being sent. Text message data is only

available for up to 5 days of the text message being sent. After 5 days,

text message information is not retrievable. This information can only

be obtained with a court ordered subpoena. For assistance in obtaining a

subpoena please contact your local police department.

Should you have additional questions or concerns please feel free to

contact our Customer Service Department at 888-944-9400 or 611 from your

cell phone. If you prefer, you may also submit your question/concern

via our website at

https://www.uscc.com/uscellular/SilverStrea...c_custserv.html.

Sincerely,

Adrian H.

Customer Service Specialist

U.S. Cellular®

-----Original Message-----

From:

Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 2:10 PM

To: CustomerCare@uscellular.com

Subject: U.S. Cellular Customer Service Online Request

Topic: Other

Questions & Comments: Hello,

I am currently involved in a case where I am petitioning the Department

of Homeland Security for an immigration-related matter. As a result, I

need access to detailed records related to my U.S. Cellular phone that I

do not see in the bills listed under "My Account".

I require the following information from March of 2008 until the present

time and going forward:

- A list of all text messages received

- A list of all text messages sent.

- Contents of all text messages received

- Contents of all text messages sent

- A list of all missed calls.

Please let me know how I can retrieve all of this very important

information. Note that I have been a loyal customer who has always paid

his bill for several years now. Thank you.

Edited March 29, 2009 by rsn

[rsn 135]

My fiancee is going to sign up for a monthly contract with her cell phone service (AIS) and place a few short calls to me every week (3 or so). This way we can show she has at least made a few calls to me. Think this will help?

That was the first thing our lawyer had Nam do when she met with them. They told her get a plan that can get a detail call record. We had 4 months of records on both showing incoming/outgoing text messages on my bill, and then just outgoing on hers. Of course she had just a few outgoing phone calls on the bill to me. She said they didn't even look at her cell phone bills.

So are you saying this isn't useful, since they didn't even look at the bills?

[AaronLV 12]

So are you saying this isn't useful, since they didn't even look at the bills?

I would say it is better to have then not have, however they did not look at ours, and it did not help.

I just looked up US Cellular, and they have a detail billing option, you might want to call their customer service and add it to your account, according to the website it shows all the numbers coming and going, including text messages.

[rsn 135]

I just looked up US Cellular, and they have a detail billing option, you might want to call their customer service and add it to your account, according to the website it shows all the numbers coming and going, including text messages.

I'm not sure where you saw this information. I searched myself and didn't see any claim like this on their site. I then called customer support and verified that I already have detailed billing enabled on my account. Also the customer support rep again confirmed that there is no way to get incoming numbers of any sort without a court order. I checked my online bill, and incoming calls are listed as "Incoming call" with my number in the number field. This is a silly policy indeed, but there appears to be no way to get this info from them w/out a court order. Oh well. I'm considering investment in a new phone that will allow me to more easily print out text messages and call logs, but if this doesn't happen, I'm going to have to do without it and use everything else I have. With all the other proof we have, and after practicing interview questions with my fiancee (she is already nervous about the interview, and I would be too) I would be surprised if they claimed we do not have a real relationship.

Anyway, thanks for the info everyone. Best of luck to all of you.

Edited March 29, 2009 by rsn

[AaronLV 12]

I'm going to have to do without it and use everything else I have. With all the other proof we have, and after practicing interview questions with my fiancee (she is already nervous about the interview, and I would be too) I would be surprised if they claimed we do not have a real relationship.

I thought the same thing also, even my attorney told me it was a slam dunk with all the information we had, and the answers my fiancee gave at their mock interview, she knew everything backwards and forwards.

Good luck to you.