Democracy For America: Healthcare for All

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

TOO MUCH LOGIC!!

To be fair, I think Dale brought up an important issue - how will doctors and hospitals be able to negotiate fees for their services under a single-payer insurance system? What will stand in the way of this public insurance from dictating what they will pay to doctors and hospitals?

Other businesses seem to have little problem with the single payer that is Uncle Sam - take defense contractors, for example. There isn't too much demand outside the military for certain products and yet, these guys don't do hungry.

[HAL 9000 96]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

TOO MUCH LOGIC!!

To be fair, I think Dale brought up an important issue - how will doctors and hospitals be able to negotiate fees for their services under a single-payer insurance system? What will stand in the way of this public insurance from dictating what they will pay to doctors and hospitals?

Indeed. Great points that can be addressed by the medical/insurance industries coming to terms with themselves. They(we) are not gods and do not need to be overcharging out of greed. Maybe the government can act as a conduit to convey that message on behalf of the citizens and residents of this nation?

[I'm Gone 60]

Let the federal government do for health care what it has done for education.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

so steven says, until he realizes the government can't run something as simple as a lemonaide stand without cost overruns and red tape.

Bingo. Someone gets it finally.

Wonder if anyone can guess what the added cost of the bureaucracy will be. Also the idiot complaints about the private insurance looking to make a profit so they scrutinize treatments. Wait until the layers of bureaucracy kick in and try to get treatment. One lowly bureaucrat has a bad day and you appeal his decision. No sheep here can envision any of this because they are just that............sheep.

[mRx 16]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

Reinhard, you have your grip on the problems that plague our current healthcare industry. Red tape, monopolization, and the prohibition of competition. But these are not problems of free enterprise, my friend. The extreme limitation of supply is engineered solely by violent intervention in the industry.

Every problem you have illustrated can be accurately blamed on intervention or regulation.

Insurance premiums are high for a multitude of reasons. The most important reason is that everyone files a claim. For a comparison, look at car insurance. If everyone got in a car accident in a given year, then the particular auto insurance company would be forced to raise premiums.

Unlike unfortunate auto accidents that one insures themselves from, healthcare is not in the same category. It would be analogous to suggest that auto insurance cover oil changes, tire rotations, transmission fluid changes, vehicle winterization, and all auto work necessary to ensure your car healthily functions. Then it would be of comparability to health insurance. My point is, health insurance should only cover those unforecasted medical emergencies or tragedies, that one would not be able to afford; synonymous to how one insures against an auto accident. Now, I understand that, unlike an oil change or tire rotation, simple health maintenance is quite unaffordable, as I'm quite sure you'd agree. Thus leads us to root problem 1 of our healthcare calamity--Affordability.

Why does a strep throat culture at 8:00PM require a visit to the Urgent Care Center or ER at multiple times the cost of a regular doctor's visit? While I don't begin to suggest that one must wait until they can get penciled in at their family doctor, there are far more efficient alternatives that are prohibited from existence. For example, why can't a nurse, in partnership with a pharmacist, X-ray tech, and possibly some nurses assistants start a business? Do you know how much money there would be in such a business? Treating non-life threatening situations as the one described above could be done at a mere fraction of what is costed at a fully-staffed Emergency Room. So why has nobody realized this opportunity? The AMA has strict requirements, and under the guise of protecting uneducated Americans from the big bad doctor, they are allowed to completely and uniformly regulate who is admitted and accepted to practice medicine. The bureaucratical process of medical approval boards makes the USCIS process look like the 10-item express lane at Wal-Mart. If the AMA doesn't approve of your practice, then you have no legal right to practice. Period. This allows them to manipulate the supply of medical practices in the US. They also can limit the amount of laborers allowed in the field as well, by exclusive rights to every seat in every medical school in America. Only a government dictated monopoly could provide such parasitic agencies such omnipotence, not the private enterprise. While the interests of the AMA are supporters of the private enterprise, they derive their power and authority from the government.

Much of this is like the domino effect; Through government permission, the AMA restricts supply, which raises the price of the demanded commodity-- Unlike a Jiffy Lube oil change, simple health maintenance is no longer affordable to the public; The government intervenes with legislation mandating what insurance companies must provide; forces companies to provide mandatory health insurance to employees-- giving momentum to the third-party payer system of insurance. This mind-numbing paradox that one must insure against routine and forcasted treatment further divorces the patient from the doctor. With the claim on insurance, comes the competition of determining fault, thus enticing the legal entities, medical malpractice, and lawsuits. None of which can be attributed at all to private enterprise. Suggesting that the government compete with the private firms would not be competition at all. It would be like the difference between if I stole your money and put it in my left pocket, or if I stole it and put in my right pocket. Either way, I get your money. Basically as long as the parasites are still clung to the system, there will be no possibility of affordability or genuinely private enterprise in our health system at all.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Let the federal government do for health care what it has done for education.

Or for that matter anything the government has gotten its hands on. Can anyone name one Federal department that is efficient?

[HAL 9000 96]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

so steven says, until he realizes the government can't run something as simple as a lemonaide stand without cost overruns and red tape.

Bingo. Someone gets it finally.

Wonder if anyone can guess what the added cost of the bureaucracy will be. Also the idiot complaints about the private insurance looking to make a profit so they scrutinize treatments. Wait until the layers of bureaucracy kick in and try to get treatment. One lowly bureaucrat has a bad day and you appeal his decision. No sheep here can envision any of this because they are just that............sheep.

I can tell you know absolutely nothing about how the present process works.

Which makes your own posts a joke on you and your sheepish socialism.

[mRx 16]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

TOO MUCH LOGIC!!

To be fair, I think Dale brought up an important issue - how will doctors and hospitals be able to negotiate fees for their services under a single-payer insurance system? What will stand in the way of this public insurance from dictating what they will pay to doctors and hospitals?

Indeed. Great points that can be addressed by the medical/insurance industries coming to terms with themselves. They(we) are not gods and do not need to be overcharging out of greed. Maybe the government can act as a conduit to convey that message on behalf of the citizens and residents of this nation?

Forcing down wages will force those who consider themselves to be worth more than the wage ceiling out of the profession. Then you'll have a shortage of labor and of quality.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

TOO MUCH LOGIC!!

To be fair, I think Dale brought up an important issue - how will doctors and hospitals be able to negotiate fees for their services under a single-payer insurance system? What will stand in the way of this public insurance from dictating what they will pay to doctors and hospitals?

Indeed. Great points that can be addressed by the medical/insurance industries coming to terms with themselves. They(we) are not gods and do not need to be overcharging out of greed. Maybe the government can act as a conduit to convey that message on behalf of the citizens and residents of this nation?

Forcing down wages will force those who consider themselves to be worth more than the wage ceiling out of the profession. Then you'll have a shortage of labor and of quality.

Then there will be less old people, and the system can fix itself. Right on!

[HAL 9000 96]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

Less a bunch of administrative staff that they currently have to employ to accommodate the worst red tape of any heath care system anywhere in the world which has been brought to us by - you guessed it - the private enterprise insurance system we continue to serve.

TOO MUCH LOGIC!!

To be fair, I think Dale brought up an important issue - how will doctors and hospitals be able to negotiate fees for their services under a single-payer insurance system? What will stand in the way of this public insurance from dictating what they will pay to doctors and hospitals?

Indeed. Great points that can be addressed by the medical/insurance industries coming to terms with themselves. They(we) are not gods and do not need to be overcharging out of greed. Maybe the government can act as a conduit to convey that message on behalf of the citizens and residents of this nation?

Forcing down wages will force those who consider themselves to be worth more than the wage ceiling out of the profession. Then you'll have a shortage of labor and of quality.

Ironically, take out the insurance costs that have been blown out of proportion by private carriers as well as frivolous lawsuits and right there you have a HUGE chunk of change as to why many MDs have such huge salaries.

The rest of the profession will have to come to grips with making a little bit less. Then that can help filter out those that are in it for the money instead of the calling to heal- which is what it should be from the beginning. Besides, they can still make QUITE A LARGE AMOUNT without being overly excessive. Nobody is taking their livelihoods away.

[mawilson 2,133]

Y'all do know that the sheep really do think this is all going to be free and pay nothing at all, right?

Yeah, OK.

Are you telling me that you think there aren't people out there who think this won't cost them anything?

There ARE people out there who WILL use the system and WON'T pay a dime.

The same people who get "Earned Income" tax credits even though they didn't pay any taxes OR have any income - earned or otherwise.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Y'all do know that the sheep really do think this is all going to be free and pay nothing at all, right?

Yeah, OK.

Are you telling me that you think there aren't people out there who think this won't cost them anything?

There ARE people out there who WILL use the system and WON'T pay a dime.

The same people who get "Earned Income" tax credits even though they didn't pay any taxes OR have any income - earned or otherwise.

If you went into a restaurant, and could not pay, used to be, you could earn your meal by scrubbing pans, or washing dishes. Why not do the same thing for health care, scrubbing bed pans, and washing sheets?

[mawilson 2,133]

If you went into a restaurant, and could not pay, used to be, you could earn your meal by scrubbing pans, or washing dishes. Why not do the same thing for health care, scrubbing bed pans, and washing sheets?

They are too sick to wash sheets

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Y'all do know that the sheep really do think this is all going to be free and pay nothing at all, right?

Yeah, OK.

Are you telling me that you think there aren't people out there who think this won't cost them anything?

There ARE people out there who WILL use the system and WON'T pay a dime.

The same people who get "Earned Income" tax credits even though they didn't pay any taxes OR have any income - earned or otherwise.

They do under our current system. Nobody is turned away from getting medical treatment in emergency situations, which you and I pay for now.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sheep are enjoying the thought of eating at the trough for free. Can't wait till the sheep realize the bill from the bureaucracy becomes due.

Tex, you are being blatantly ignorant or just plain stupid. If you have medical insurance now, it is with a private insurance carrier. The proposal is to switch from private insurance (for profit) to a single payer (non-profit). Doctors and hospitals will remain the same as they are now.

so steven says, until he realizes the government can't run something as simple as a lemonaide stand without cost overruns and red tape.

Bingo. Someone gets it finally.

Wonder if anyone can guess what the added cost of the bureaucracy will be. Also the idiot complaints about the private insurance looking to make a profit so they scrutinize treatments. Wait until the layers of bureaucracy kick in and try to get treatment. One lowly bureaucrat has a bad day and you appeal his decision. No sheep here can envision any of this because they are just that............sheep.

So, if private enterprise is so superior, why do we, as a nation, pay the most per capita for health care and get the least overall return for our money? And why is the private industry fighting a proposal to compete with the incompetent and unable government? Should be an easy competition for the private sector seeing that they perform so superbly. Or do they? Interestingly, the private sector here has created a bureaucracy around health care that no government anywhere in the word can even come close to match. 30%+ worth of overhead and red-tape. No government has managed to get even close.