Nontraditional Fiance

[chiquita 0]

Give them as much evidence as you can regarding his relationship with your children. That really (I believe) made a HUGE difference in our case. I was a single mom of a 2 year old. We had spent almost 2 months living in Morocco (i was a student so it was a lot easier to do that). But we had a lot of pictures of ALL of us together. (me, my son, and husband) as well as family pictures with all of his family. The CO did ask him about my son, how old he was, what his name was, even about the custody arrangement. He said she spent more time talking about my son than our relationship. I think he was able to prove not only did WE have a strong relationship but also that my son was a very real and valid part of the relationship. I think it's so great that your kids do spend time talking to and sending him mail -- MAKE SURE THE CO KNOWS THAT!!!!

Kerewin is right. I think the problem in a lot of the cases coming out of NA/ME is not that there isn't proof or that we don't want to give it to the CO's but that they won't even look at or consider it. I really don't think this is legal (but nowadays they make law by decree it seems)- but what can we do about it? How do we get around it? I wish you the best of luck with your interview and with your new family!

Thanks for that tip, I was hoping my fiances relationship with the children would be significant to them. Mainly because, it is not just me and my fiance, we are a family here and the children love him so much and can't wait for him to be with us. I would hate further emotional stress over this seperation for them moreso than me. My youngest has a whole list of places and things she wants to do with him. I have sent him copies of their school grades and awards, He IS just so very much a part of our lives. We discuss matters with the children and their upbringing and how to handle certain situations before I take any action on them now. We all need him with us so much.

I'm considering leaving VJ... this is a bunch of #######.

I hope you don't leave Icey, you have a good heart and always have good advice. Its just so hard to hear people tell us that we didn't do it right. These people just like stirring the Sh#$. We would all be wise to realize that these people talk out of the a$$e$ and to not even respond.

Now, for the original poster. A 3 year age difference isn't going to be a problem. I know of someone that has an 8 year difference and her husband didn't even have to go through the AR. It is wise though to recognize all of the red flags you do have and be prepared to show it. I do agree with (can't remember who) the person who said that using the unconventional approach won't help. They don't care if he isn't traditional, and it might appear you are trying to hard. You have to play the game their way. Just go prepared and I am sure all will be fine Incha Allah.

The last thing I want is to raise more unecessary questions... but the truth is, both of our rebel want to change the world attitudes was one of the common personality traits that drew us together...lol He was way too liberal and open for his culture and I am way to strict, uptight and conservative for my american female role...lol Oddly somehow we fit just right together in that middle ground. Thanks for the advice ladies, it is great to hear from you all...

And all of you who are still waiting due to messed up interviews in casa... God be with you Even imagining that pain and stress is hurting me now.

PLEASE...

Be sure he gives all the proof of your relationship right away. Even if the CO doesnt want it, make him insist that he/she looks at it! Don't let it be the reason for a return!!

AND>>>

if at all POSSIBLE...be in Maroc for the interview!!!

hugs

chi

[tnh9479 1]

PLEASE...

Be sure he gives all the proof of your relationship right away. Even if the CO doesnt want it, make him insist that he/she looks at it! Don't let it be the reason for a return!!

AND>>>

if at all POSSIBLE...be in Maroc for the interview!!!

hugs

chi

Personally, I think being super-aggressive with anyone, much less an over-worked consular officer, will not in any way help your case. There are ways of showing your proof of relationship (like others have stated in previous posts). Just as an example: my husband (then fiance) and I sent quite a bit of proof off with our visa application. It was not a truck-load. However, it showed various methods through which we communicated (mail, email, ecards, chat transcripts, telephone records). We also explained in the "how we met letter" what some of our similarities are. I think giving this information to the consulate ahead of time makes the process easier. (Although my husband still brought more proof and told them him had it...they did not want to see any of it. His interview was pretty straight-forward. Then again...they weren't maybe some of the red flags that I have seen with others.)

Twila

[deeshla 0]

The problem is one of marriage fraud - not on the part of unsuspecting Western woman -- but on the part of the (mostly younger) Moroccan men who devote all of their spare time to wooing women on the internet, then proposing to them. I am NOT suggesting that this is the case with you -- just that it is happening so much that it is considered something of an epidemic here in Morocco.

Every time I go to the consulate I meet newly married women from the states with their Moroccan spouses - there are some themes: 1.) met on the internet and/or 2.) woman is greatly older than man (somtimes 30-40 years and/or 3.) couple seem extremely unnatural together. This must be raising a colossal red flag with immigration officials. And reports from these unions keep pouring in -- man dumps American wife for real Moroccan wife then takes advantage of status. I know a fellow Peace Corps volunteer who wrote an article about the phenomenon.

Living here with a Moroccan husband makes me sensitive to this issue. If two people want to marry, they should be able to marry -- whether or not they conform to some random CO's definition of acceptable. (And similarly, when I got married Moroccan-style it really wasn't anyone's business if I was a virgin or not -- but we were both extensively questioned about this). Also, people tend to assume (especially expats and other Moroccan men) that he is in it for the visa. This is totally frustrating and humilating for both of us, but is just one of many things that we have had to navigate and accept in this process.

I think whoever said the thing about validating the relationship has a point. An internet love affair is pretty hard to believe, but it seems to constitute the majority of the marriages I see here. This is a new social movement -- Western women finding love and companionship from very romantic marraige and kid-ready virile Moroccan men and those men finding a way up and out of a country that has extremely high unemployment and low prospects. This may not be the reasoning initially, but I think it is the "latent function" of these unions. Not all, of course -- but enough to put Casa on guard. Like mentioned before -- what they are doing is legal -- and if evidence of marriage fraud is happening, I guess this is their way of culling.

Deeshla

[Together4ever 1]

One thing that has stumped me since Mohammed's interview, and I've read it many times here from other couples... (and I realize we are going through Egypt and not Morocco but it kind of applies) is this:

Mohammed took more evidence with him to the interview. One of which was a handwritten letter from an Irish woman we spent a lot of time with in Alexandria stating she had witnessed us together many times, we stayed in her home, watched her son, went out together, etc. and that she had absolutely no doubts in the validity of our relationship. Mohammed tried to present this and the Consular Office refused to see it. She refused to see anything at all but a few additional pictures.

Can anyone offer a reason why ANY evidence is refused? That's what is truly frustrating. You go prepared and it's disregarded. The only reason I can think of is that the Consular Office said to him, "I believe you love her," but that just seems too darn easy...

[babybunny 2]

One thing that has stumped me since Mohammed's interview, and I've read it many times here from other couples... (and I realize we are going through Egypt and not Morocco but it kind of applies) is this:

Mohammed took more evidence with him to the interview. One of which was a handwritten letter from an Irish woman we spent a lot of time with in Alexandria stating she had witnessed us together many times, we stayed in her home, watched her son, went out together, etc. and that she had absolutely no doubts in the validity of our relationship. Mohammed tried to present this and the Consular Office refused to see it. She refused to see anything at all but a few additional pictures.

Can anyone offer a reason why ANY evidence is refused? That's what is truly frustrating. You go prepared and it's disregarded. The only reason I can think of is that the Consular Office said to him, "I believe you love her," but that just seems too darn easy...

I got interviewed for my husbands CR1. I took a letter to the Interview from my parents.

it was really touching. It had to contain all of my parents details - name addres phone fax...etc..

the adjudicating officer accepted the proof.

[myfellah 0]

I just want to wish you the best of luck. Quite a few things have changed since my husband (then fiance) had his interview in 5/05. I can only suggest, like everyone else, to be sure he presents all the information he has proving your ongoing relationship. My husband went into his interview like everyone else, full of confidence knowing our love was true and he would receive his visa. Every one is told to be prepared and I am sure all are. Why he received his visa and others have not, I have no idea. I guess we were lucky. We have a large age difference but then his parents did too, his mother was 13 years older than his father. They never questioned him about our age difference. He did present all our evidence of our two years of knowing each other but I had only been to Morocco once. I can only wish everyone good luck and try not to worry. Make sure your husband/fiance knows everything about you. My husband knew more about me than I did and was able to answer each question without hesitation. It may seem funny but go over everything as often as you can before the interview quick a few times, it might help. Give him all your support because he has so much weight on his shoulders when he enters the consulate and I pray it all goes well. I would think just his showing them your love and relationship will be better than showing them he is different.

Doreen

[soul_encounter 0]

I just want to wish you the best of luck. Quite a few things have changed since my husband (then fiance) had his interview in 5/05. I can only suggest, like everyone else, to be sure he presents all the information he has proving your ongoing relationship. My husband went into his interview like everyone else, full of confidence knowing our love was true and he would receive his visa. Every one is told to be prepared and I am sure all are. Why he received his visa and others have not, I have no idea. I guess we were lucky. We have a large age difference but then his parents did too, his mother was 13 years older than his father. They never questioned him about our age difference. He did present all our evidence of our two years of knowing each other but I had only been to Morocco once. I can only wish everyone good luck and try not to worry. Make sure your husband/fiance knows everything about you. My husband knew more about me than I did and was able to answer each question without hesitation. It may seem funny but go over everything as often as you can before the interview quick a few times, it might help. Give him all your support because he has so much weight on his shoulders when he enters the consulate and I pray it all goes well. I would think just his showing them your love and relationship will be better than showing them he is different.

Doreen

It is so great to hear a happy ending Doreen, you made my morning. Thank you so much for this reply. I do know and understand the reasonings for all the changes in the last year or so. I saw for myself the evidence of cons at work and my fiance and I have discussed a few such cases that we know honestly. Really, I feel badly for those boys who are going through this as a way out and not for love. The sad reality of actual life in america as compared to the myths of movies will sink in and they will miss what they left. There are some things in life, not even money can buy. Such as the closeness of family and friends who work and share together as in morocco. And say goodbye to all that free time sitting around watching soccer in the cafes boys.

My fiance has no misconceptions of life in america. He knows and has seen first hand how even with what most consider to be a "good" job here with salary, it is a neverending struggle for me. He says to me all the time "Ahbiba, please try to make your ex sign for the babies to come here and live with us. I can care for all my family here, I hate to see you working this hardly." We didn't start chatting with the intent of falling in love, and when we did, our first choice of where to live, was not the US.

He knows everything about me, from the time I wake, the fact that I don't do breakfast other than coffee (that was a huge battle during my stay there, he really protested my not eating the first meal), he knows the childrens schedules, what days they do soccer, equestrian lessons, guitar, what weekends they are gone to their dads, he knows all my quirks and buttons and uses them too, my family history and relationship with them... You know, I had 2 deaths in my family last year, my uncle and my grandma, he was there with me on the phone through my tears during both of those times and not just for me, he called my father too both times daily for week just to be sure he was ok... His uncle and grandmother were calling me to be sure I was ok. I was hurt last year and pain meds make me horribly sick and loopy so I had to take half doses and even that was still bad on my system. I was down for 4 days and talking out of my mind, he called me every 4 hours to be sure I ate something, took those meds, then sang goofy american love songs to me until I fell asleep. He even called my doctor daily to update her on how I was doing at home. Even now, he calls me in the middle of the day "Have you remembered to eat hayati?" "No baby I've been busy with appointments and not found time for that yet." "Then stop those appointments and eat something quickly hobi... why why why you don't care for my life?" I swear the whole time I was in morocco it was a constant bombardment of food constantly... those people I love em for sure but for goodness sake I thought they were trying to kill me with food. For a gal who is used to having coffee for breakfast, a banana, some trail mix and dr pepper on the road during the day between appointments, and a quick throw together or order in dinner at night all that constant cooked meals 4 times a day and in between goodies is a lot to handle. And they were always fussing that I didn't eat well and if I didn't eat to their satisfaction they cooked twice as many things the next meal thinking sooner or later they would find something I liked despite my assurances that everything they made was delicious.

Anyhow, I do understand fraud happens frequently there, but seriously, all they have to do, is look at our phone records, our pictures (which btw we were in no way "uncomfortable" together, his friends joked that our ceremony video would have to be rated 18 and over for all the kissing, he could not keep his hands off of me), our chats and emails, letters from family and friends... We are in love ... This seperation has made us both just sick... literally sick. The night before I left, his family had a huge party, everyone waiting for our taxi to casa to arrive, everyone wanting to steal a few last moments with me... the whole night my sweetie was trying so hard to smile instead of cry until finally, 4 hours before time to go, he made apologies to everyone there, took me to our room, locked us in, grabbed me and just cried himself sick. He said "I'm sorry hobi, but this is the last of my time with you for I don't know how long, and I can't share it with anyone."

Anyhow, sorry to ramble, but sometimes on here, I hear and read so much focus about the infamous "fraud in morocco" that it seems fitting to share some of the real emotion, sharing, caring and heartbreak, of true love. It is great to know there are lovers out there living the happy ever after part like you.

[Bosco 1]

Can anyone offer a reason why ANY evidence is refused? That's what is truly frustrating. You go prepared and it's disregarded. The only reason I can think of is that the Consular Office said to him, "I believe you love her," but that just seems too darn easy...

Jean,

This is mere speculation, but if the CO is convinced the relationship is fraud because of a large age difference or other red flags, I don't think any evidence is going to sway them. He realizes that the man (the one committing fraud in their opinion, with the American woman being victim) is going to go through whatever motions are necessary to make the relationship seem real - not only for the consulate but for the woman they are using.

The women who have been used for green cards that I know (and if any are reading they can jump in) could tell you that their fiances/husbands went through all the motions and were very believable when doing so. Their evidence would have been the same as everyone elses, and in some cases may have seemed stronger (more visits, spent time living together). Yet, their marriages were not real for the men involved but only a means of entering the US. So, the weeding out has to be based on factors other than "evidence" and becomes subjective.

I really don't see how evidence (as we think in terms of letters, pictures, affidavits of how the couples seem together) would make a difference in this type of fraud case. Everyone is going to have it. The guy isn't going to not write to her, not call her, not taking pictures of himself looking all lovey-dovey towards her, or act untowards with the USC because he is convincing her as well.

Rebecca

[Together4ever 1]

Can anyone offer a reason why ANY evidence is refused? That's what is truly frustrating. You go prepared and it's disregarded. The only reason I can think of is that the Consular Office said to him, "I believe you love her," but that just seems too darn easy...

Jean,

This is mere speculation, but if the CO is convinced the relationship is fraud because of a large age difference or other red flags, I don't think any evidence is going to sway them. He realizes that the man (the one committing fraud in their opinion, with the American woman being victim) is going to go through whatever motions are necessary to make the relationship seem real - not only for the consulate but for the woman they are using.

The women who have been used for green cards that I know (and if any are reading they can jump in) could tell you that their fiances/husbands went through all the motions and were very believable when doing so. Their evidence would have been the same as everyone elses, and in some cases may have seemed stronger (more visits, spent time living together). Yet, their marriages were not real for the men involved but only a means of entering the US. So, the weeding out has to be based on factors other than "evidence" and becomes subjective.

I really don't see how evidence (as we think in terms of letters, pictures, affidavits of how the couples seem together) would make a difference in this type of fraud case. Everyone is going to have it. The guy isn't going to not write to her, not call her, not taking pictures of himself looking all lovey-dovey towards her, or act untowards with the USC because he is convincing her as well.

Rebecca

Trying to avoid an unneeded meltdown here... evidence is refused when they believe a relationship is a FRAUD?

[Jenn! 918]

Quite the catch-22, isn't it?

[Bosco 1]

Trying to avoid an unneeded meltdown here... evidence is refused when they believe a relationship is a FRAUD?

Hasn't this basically been the case with Casa? In most of the cases they have returned to the USCIS, they have not looked at or only skimmed the evidence. The decision to return petitions seems subjective based on everything we have seen here, with little relevance to evidence brought in by the beneficiary.

As Chiquita has said, the CO didn't even look at their evidence, and I know this to be true in other cases. Our evidence was not looked at but we were approved.

From everything I have heard hear, in most (not all) cases, the COs in Casa seem to care very little about the evidence either way. They do occasionally look through a few things the benificiary brought it, but I think it is rare that they actually examine it, and it seems not looking at anything is quite common too.

Rebecca

evidence meaning evidence not included in the original petition.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Bosco

[Together4ever 1]

Trying to avoid an unneeded meltdown here... evidence is refused when they believe a relationship is a FRAUD?

Hasn't this basically been the case with Casa? In most of the cases they have returned to the USCIS, they have not looked at or only skimmed the evidence. The decision to return petitions seems subjective based on everything we have seen here, with little relevance to evidence brought in by the beneficiary.

As Chiquita has said, the CO didn't even look at their evidence, and I know this to be true in other cases. Our evidence was not looked at but we were approved.

From everything I have heard hear, in most (not all) cases, the COs in Casa seem to care very little about the evidence either way. They do occasionally look through a few things the benificiary brought it, but I think it is rare that they actually examine it, and it seems not looking at anything is quite common too.

Rebecca

evidence meaning evidence not included in the original petition.

Ok thanks. I guess I was just asking in general. I do agree that Casa has their own way of doing things which isn't exactly in line with what they are supposed to be doing. Unfortunately all any of us can do is just merely speculate no matter which embassy we're going through and that is what makes all this so stressful. My prayers are with everyone.

[asante 0]

Good bye. I think we have an enough pool of advisors. I doubt this site has a few people with a monopoly of knowledge.

I'm considering leaving VJ... this is a bunch of #######.