Bad news for the AWB supporters

[mRx 16]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

That's not an easy position to justify, shooter.

Extreme threat of violence evokes certain natural reactions from humans. They won't know those reactions until presented with the situation, so it's nearly impossible for someone to fight off those natural reactions (whatever they may be), without proper training and sufficient exposure to such violence, like military and law enforcement careers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

That's not an easy position to justify, shooter.

Extreme threat of violence evokes certain natural reactions from humans. They won't know those reactions until presented with the situation, so it's nearly impossible for someone to fight off those natural reactions (whatever they may be), without proper training and sufficient exposure to such violence, like military and law enforcement careers.

That can happen even to trained folks too. There was a bit on NPR a few weeks back about a army Colonel serving in Iraq who developed post traumatic stress after an roadside bomb killed several of the soldiers under his command. It was quite interesting actually - the guy hadn't witnessed the incident in question. It seems you don't need to be exposed directly to a traumatic incident to be affected by it in that way.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Private Pike

[Danno 1,228]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

This surely wins the award for scumbag post of the day.

I don't know about you but a school isn't a war zone. It isn't a place where people reasonably expect to have to fight for their lives. But I suppose to any have a go rambo wannabe fear and confusion when faced with an unknown and terrifying situation is somehow reprehensible cowardice.

The more you talk the less you sound like an ordinary person as much as the sort of person who would carry out such an act.

Why should any person in a civilized society prepare for "less than" civil engagements in their daily life?

Dude you are not in your sheltered British life any more.

In fact that typical outlook of yours is why the British Empire is gone and the country its self is soon gone as well.

Deal

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

This surely wins the award for scumbag post of the day.

I don't know about you but a school isn't a war zone. It isn't a place where people reasonably expect to have to fight for their lives. But I suppose to any have a go rambo wannabe fear and confusion when faced with an unknown and terrifying situation is somehow reprehensible cowardice.

The more you talk the less you sound like an ordinary person as much as the sort of person who would carry out such an act.

Why should any person in a civilized society prepare for "less than" civil engagements in their daily life?

Dude you are not in your sheltered British life any more.

In fact that typical outlook of yours is why the British Empire is gone and the country its self is soon gone as well.

Deal

People go about their daily business in the UK, just as they do here - there's nothing "sheltered" about it.

The fact remains - that I've lived in several countries (besides this one), and at no point have I felt the need to procure a weapon for home defence.

Your implication seems to be that everyone needs to buy into rampant paranoia. That might cut it for you - it doesn't for me (or indeed for your countrymen who want nothing to do with firearms).

Perhaps you need to take a few deep breaths and get a grip.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Private Pike

[HAL 9000 96]

Swords up ahoy.

[justashooter 430]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

That's not an easy position to justify, shooter.

Extreme threat of violence evokes certain natural reactions from humans. They won't know those reactions until presented with the situation, so it's nearly impossible for someone to fight off those natural reactions (whatever they may be), without proper training and sufficient exposure to such violence, like military and law enforcement careers.

you need to read desmond morris.

fight or flight, sympathetic or parasympathetic. training or no training, live or die. it's a choice each of us has to make for himself. it's a mindset. maybe i've seen too much, but my choice is made. maybe we should be teaching our children that they have a choice.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It sound wonderful if you want to live in a society akin to the Wild West.

[mRx 16]

But Steven, any weapon could be used for an assault or a crime. The VT shooter showed just how devastating and assaultive 2 pistols could be.

the VT shootings show how bad things can get when students hide under desks, instead of taking their destiny into their own hands. those children were raised in a "call 911" culture, and paid the price for believing the lie that police will protect you when things go south.

That's not an easy position to justify, shooter.

Extreme threat of violence evokes certain natural reactions from humans. They won't know those reactions until presented with the situation, so it's nearly impossible for someone to fight off those natural reactions (whatever they may be), without proper training and sufficient exposure to such violence, like military and law enforcement careers.

you need to read desmond morris.

fight or flight, sympathetic or parasympathetic. training or no training, live or die. it's a choice each of us has to make for himself. it's a mindset. maybe i've seen too much, but my choice is made. maybe we should be teaching our children that they have a choice.

People can read whatever they want, but it doesn't change the fact that if a situation arises and you have a gun in your face, you don't know how you're going to react. Sure, the will to live is natural in humans, but the actions that express those instincts aren't always of the hero-type. Hiding, or taking cover are perfectly natural reactions. Frequent exposure to life-threatening situations is probably the only way to control and overcome your instincts, not book reading or parental advise. Granted, some may naturally be the hero type, but a "sit on daddy's lap" lecture isn't going to bring about a change in instincts.

[justashooter 430]

People can read whatever they want, but it doesn't change the fact that if a situation arises and you have a gun in your face, you don't know how you're going to react. Sure, the will to live is natural in humans, but the actions that express those instincts aren't always of the hero-type. Hiding, or taking cover are perfectly natural reactions. Frequent exposure to life-threatening situations is probably the only way to control and overcome your instincts, not book reading or parental advise. Granted, some may naturally be the hero type, but a "sit on daddy's lap" lecture isn't going to bring about a change in instincts.

i have raised my boys in an environment that has provided them with the mindset i have. they have participated in live fire exercises similar to what police trainers call a "fun house", and have shot so extensively that it is a reflexive activity. neither of them will hide. both of them are 4-5" taller than me, and have been too big to sit on my lap for 10 years. call it a service to their generation.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just because someone knows how to operate a gun it doesn't mean they know how to react to situations that involve pant-wetting terror. As it stands its rather easy for you to sit there in your ivory chair and make grand pronouncements about what people "should have done" when you didn't face the situation yourself.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Just because someone knows how to operate a gun it doesn't mean they know how to react to situations that involve pant-wetting terror. As it stands its rather easy for you to sit there in your ivory chair and make grand pronouncements about what people "should have done" when you didn't face the situation yourself.

I've been trained. I know how to operate weapons.

I have been in situations that involve "terror".

Bad guy always lost. Innocent lives are saved, for the most part.

Your training takes over. That is why firemen rush toward the fire when everyone is running away. That is why policemen/soldiers/properly trained and licensed civilians run toward the gunfire, even if it means their life.

To protect life.

Properly trained people can make a HUGE difference.

And in every one of these "loose cannon" cases, every one, if someone was there, trained to react and take care of the issue, they would not of had such a high body count.

The world is not a safe place. That is why some people take it upon themselves to be armed and try to make a difference. I have had guns pointed at me, and I have drawn down on people.

I would rather the world to be full of sunshine and butterflies, but both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

So, I do my part to keep it safe as much as I can.

IMHO

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just because someone knows how to operate a gun it doesn't mean they know how to react to situations that involve pant-wetting terror. As it stands its rather easy for you to sit there in your ivory chair and make grand pronouncements about what people "should have done" when you didn't face the situation yourself.

I've been trained. I know how to operate weapons.

I have been in situations that involve "terror".

Bad guy always lost. Innocent lives are saved, for the most part.

Your training takes over. That is why firemen rush toward the fire when everyone is running away. That is why policemen/soldiers/properly trained and licensed civilians run toward the gunfire, even if it means their life.

To protect life.

Properly trained people can make a HUGE difference.

And in every one of these "loose cannon" cases, every one, if someone was there, trained to react and take care of the issue, they would not of had such a high body count.

The world is not a safe place. That is why some people take it upon themselves to be armed and try to make a difference. I have had guns pointed at me, and I have drawn down on people.

I would rather the world to be full of sunshine and butterflies, but both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

So, I do my part to keep it safe as much as I can.

IMHO

I'm not sure I would want to live in a society where everyone is 2 seconds away from blowing someone's head off. We take some security for granted - most people wouldn't expect an armed gunman to burst into an elementary school classroom for instance, nor would they expect to have their throat cut at an ATM.

The reality is that $hit happens, and when it comes to things that are extreme and unpredictable - even the best trained people are likely to be caught with their pants down.

Again - it proves nothing. And it doesn't justify the assessment made previously that the Virginia Tech students who were killed by the gunman somehow behaved cowardly.

[Peikko 1,575]

Well that's it then, re instate the draft, for both men and women, because that is the only way to ensure combat training for every man and woman in the country.

How ridiculous can this get? Luckily, I have never met any of you crazy nutters in real life, but if I did, I would be very, very scared of you, because what you believe is not normal.

I don't think much of your training by the way Shooter. You mentioned that your sons are in Iraq collecting human trophies. Looks like you have reared a bunch of savages.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now that I think of it wasn't there an Israeli special forces type on one of the hijacked planes on 9/11. Lot of good his training did him.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Looks like you have reared a bunch of savages.

Well the Bible was wrong when it said the meek shall inherit the earth. It's the savages who do, actually.