We think: Assault-weapons ban one way to fight back against violent crime

[Peikko 1,575]

So basically Charles, you are saying that it is quite impossible to categorize guns into those which are suitable for hunting, and those which are suitable for military combat? They are all interchangeable and no legislation could or perhaps should be formulated which could make sensible distinctions between the two?

Just wondering, you know, for clarity.

no

I am unclear from the simple 'no' what you are actually saying no to.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[fozzie 41]

So basically Charles, you are saying that it is quite impossible to categorize guns into those which are suitable for hunting, and those which are suitable for military combat? They are all interchangeable and no legislation could or perhaps should be formulated which could make sensible distinctions between the two?

Just wondering, you know, for clarity.

no

I am unclear from the simple 'no' what you are actually saying no to.

He is saying "NO!! - stop I can't take it anymore. You win, I will get rid of my guns and campaign hard for banning of ALL projectile based weapons."

[Peikko 1,575]

Including water pistols?

Even in the UK we don't got that far!

[fozzie 41]

Including water pistols?

Even in the UK we don't got that far!

Well... maybe not water pistols but straws with small bits of soggy paper should be banned!!!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What about excrement catapults?

[Peikko 1,575]

And now for some nice propaganda!

Link

I like these best:

MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection.

TRUTH: Obviously, self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide. Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer) (source) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide (source). Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills.

MYTH:"Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.

TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses. Glasses are a tool which help people to see just as guns are a tool that help people to kill and injure others. Empirical research indicates that firearms increase the chances that a crime will turn deadly. A study done by the National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence reported that a victim is about five times more likely to survive if an attacker is armed with a knife rather than a gun (source). Furthermore, The International Crime Victim Survey concluded that there is a correlation between gun ownership and an increase in both homicide and suicide. "The present study, based on a sample of eighteen countries, confirms the result of previous work based on the 14 countries surveyed during the first International Crime Survey. Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total homicide and suicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potententially lethal weapons less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of homicide and suicide."

Edited March 24, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[fozzie 41]

What about excrement catapults?

Whats the range? How many men can you take down before reloading? What calibre excrement are you using? Can you convert it into an assault rifle? These are questions we need to answer before we can make that determination.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What about excrement catapults?

Whats the range? How many men can you take down before reloading? What calibre excrement are you using? Can you convert it into an assault rifle? These are questions we need to answer before we can make that determination.

I think if you throw excrement at someone that it classes as a form of assault - so that's probably out too.

[HAL 9000 96]

Liberal propaganda. Wanting to take our guns away!

What about excrement catapults?

Whats the range? How many men can you take down before reloading? What calibre excrement are you using? Can you convert it into an assault rifle? These are questions we need to answer before we can make that determination.

I think if you throw excrement at someone that it classes as a form of assault - so that's probably out too.

We know throwing shoes in Iraq at foreign leaders is a no-no.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

MYTH:"Guns don't kill, people kill people" is a good argument against gun control.

TRUTH: This pro-gun argument makes about as much sense as claiming that "glasses don't see, eyes see" is a good argument against wearing glasses.

[fozzie 41]

What about excrement catapults?

Whats the range? How many men can you take down before reloading? What calibre excrement are you using? Can you convert it into an assault rifle? These are questions we need to answer before we can make that determination.

I think if you throw excrement at someone that it classes as a form of assault - so that's probably out too.

No Sh*t!!!

No pun intended..well maybe a little.

[stangguy 0]

An assault rifle is a rifle designed for combat, with selective fire (capable of shooting fully automatic and semi automatic). Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies, having largely superseded or supplemented battle rifles (which are similar to assault rifles but are larger and more powerful) such as the FN FAL and the Heckler & Koch G3. Examples of assault rifles include the AK-47, the M16 and the Steyr AUG.

wiki

assault rifle

NOUN: Any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for individual use in combat.

yahoo education

n. Any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles designed for individual use in combat.

answers.com

The Mini-14, Mini Thirty, and Mini-6.8 are small, lightweight semi-automatic carbines manufactured by the U.S. firearms company Sturm, Ruger.

...............

History

The Mini-14 was first introduced in 1974 by Ruger. Mini-14 is derived from the military M14 rifle implying a miniature version of the M14. Ruger used the M14 as a model for the new rifle while incorporating numerous innovations and cost-saving engineering changes. The Mini-14 proved popular with small-game hunters, ranchers, law enforcement, security personnel and target shooters.

wiki

and what country has adopted the mini-14 for their army? from what i can find, none!

While I agree that semi-automatic rifles should not be banned the legal definition of "assault weapon" is much broader than what you list.

here is the California deffintion of assault weapon.

Category I assault weapons are those specifically named by make and model in Penal Code §12276 (and echoed in California Code of Regulation §979.10). These firearms are assault weapons at even the bare receiver/frame level – regardless of any particular characteristic features. Thus an Uzi receiver would be banned by name, but a similar Group Industries receiver would be legal (as long as offending Category III features were not added).

Category II assault weapons consist of the AR15 and AK “series” of firearms. While AR and AK series were named in the original Roberti-Roos laws, due to various key court decisions about “series” membership it’s useful to refer to them as their own category, those these guns really have just fallen back into the Roberti-Roos list once listed by DOJ.

Category III assault weapons are defined by characteristic features listed in PC 12276.1:

RIFLES:

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of:

▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously below the weapon’s action

▪ a thumbhole stock or folding or telescopic stock;

▪ a flash suppressor, grenade launcher or flare launcher;

▪ a forward pistol grip.

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with overall length of less than 30 inches;

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds.

PISTOLS:

A semiautomatic pistol capable of accepting detachable magazines and any of the following:

▪ a threaded barrel;

▪ a second handgrip;

▪ capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside the pistol grip;

▪ a shroud attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel allowing

bearer to fire weapon without burning his/her hand, except for a slide enclosing

the barrel;

A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine having capacity to accept over 10 rounds.

SHOTGUNS:

A semiautomatic shotgun having both of the following:

▪ a folding or telescoping stock;

▪ a pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

a thumbhole stock, or a vertical handgrip.

A semiautomatic shotgun with the ability to accept detachable magazines;

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder

The last proposed federal "Assault Weapon" ban is similar while also listing the mini-14 as an illegal assault weapon, as well as any weapon procured for military or federal law enforcement use. Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007__WIKI It didn't pass but these are the common definitions of "assault rifle" I was referring to.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

having trouble following the quotes again? i didn't say it was your question, did i?

You:

Reply to- "a weapon mow down a roomful/range of people in less time that it takes you to load/fire/reload a single-firing weapon?"

Me:

Referring to- "Like I said... sensible. I haven't seen or heard of many squirrel rifles being used in the commission of violent crime."

You:

Being semantic.

Me:

Being contextual.

Move along.

oh yeah, more laws. and we know how effective those are

Effective enough when they target the manufacture and marketing from the get-go.

*Like I also stated above*

more like

you: pounding your chest

me: nailing your feet to the floor over your broad brush statements which would impact about every gun owner as most firearms are not single shot

you: claiming semantics and climbing onto a high horse

The term red neck is not a slur. Lets analyze it in depth. Red = the color of passion. Neck = erm well...at least you got the red part.

yes, it is.

Okay,fine. It is, you got me.

I'm guessing someone has called you a red**** at some time in the past?

keep reading ot, you'll see that phrase tossed around quite a bit. and then you'll see it's a negative term.

He is saying "NO!! - stop I can't take it anymore. You win, I will get rid of my guns and campaign hard for banning of ALL projectile based weapons."

well good for you. charge on.

[Peikko 1,575]

Ah, you see what you did Fozzie? You made it possible for Charles to do what Charles does best, focus on the minutea at the expense of answering the pertinant questions. C'est la vie, I expected nothing less.

[fozzie 41]

having trouble following the quotes again? i didn't say it was your question, did i?

You:

Reply to- "a weapon mow down a roomful/range of people in less time that it takes you to load/fire/reload a single-firing weapon?"

Me:

Referring to- "Like I said... sensible. I haven't seen or heard of many squirrel rifles being used in the commission of violent crime."

You:

Being semantic.

Me:

Being contextual.

Move along.

oh yeah, more laws. and we know how effective those are

Effective enough when they target the manufacture and marketing from the get-go.

*Like I also stated above*

more like

you: pounding your chest

me: nailing your feet to the floor over your broad brush statements which would impact about every gun owner as most firearms are not single shot

you: claiming semantics and climbing onto a high horse

The term red neck is not a slur. Lets analyze it in depth. Red = the color of passion. Neck = erm well...at least you got the red part.

yes, it is.

Okay,fine. It is, you got me.

I'm guessing someone has called you a red**** at some time in the past?

keep reading ot, you'll see that phrase tossed around quite a bit. and then you'll see it's a negative term.

He is saying "NO!! - stop I can't take it anymore. You win, I will get rid of my guns and campaign hard for banning of ALL projectile based weapons."

well good for you. charge on.

1) It can be a negative term but I was using it as a term of affection.

2) My point was that you will never be swayed by our arguments, any more that we will be swayed by yours. Its still a fun debate though don't you think.