We think: Assault-weapons ban one way to fight back against violent crime

[Danno 1,228]

Never thought I would be assisting cry_baby_pants with Mega Nerds (Hal 9000) links but they interesting.

U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

ATF chief: Most illegal guns seized in Mexico are from U.S.

August 12, 2008

EL PASO, Texas – Nearly all illegal guns seized in Mexico come from the United States, the head of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said yesterday.

ATF acting director Michael Sullivan said investigators have traced 90 percent to 95 percent of the weapons found in Mexico to the United States. Generally, only law enforcement officers or military personnel can legally possess guns in Mexico.

sir u are right all military style weapons should be outrightly ban, I don't own a gun but beleive people should be abble to protect them self with an hand gun not a war gun, Pre. Obama its time to make those promises come to life pls do something b4 criminal take over this beloved Country

"military style weapons"... would that include a handgun and knife? They are both military weapons sold on the open market.

To wade into this debate, (with any credibility) one must first know a little something about what it is you want to ban.

That can be done without individuals here needing to be particularly knowledgable about said firearms. Like I said - it doesn't sound like it would be difficult to identify certain models and features that should not be available to the public retail market.

The UK did a similar thing about dangerous dogs a few years back.

For real? Isn't that like putting dogs into groups and judging (condemning) them? Tsk tsk.

It's not right to judge every dog in a group for the actions of a literal few.

There is a Principle here and I am surprised you are on the wrong side of this.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

Redneck is not racist. Rude, perhaps bigoted, but not racist. Most often the appellant and the named are of the same race. It is not weighted with the same contextual bias, a history of oppression and more importantly, the rednecks themselves coined the phrase to describe themselves, as I understand it, it was not ever designed to make rednecks feel inferior.

so you're saying this is kinda like when one black guy says to another, "what's up , my ***?"

so, in your perfect world, he can use the word, but i can't? what if i was using it in the same spirit, say like i'm the guy in the "8 Mile" movie, and just trying to fit in. would i then be called a racist only on basis of my skin color and another person's stereotype of the intent of the words of the white guy?

so when a black guy calls me "cuz", and i call him "cuz" back, is this racism, or just harmonious communication. please clarify, oh arbiter of all things involving racism, definer of teh roles of cultures, and the appropriate relatios between them, divider of the peoples on basis of color and creed.

Shooter, racism is what it is. I suggest you try watching Bedazzled, and start reading some historical material regarding the roots of racism in America. What is and isn't racism is not dictated by what I think and believe.

[HAL 9000 96]

God I love this post on the Assault weapons thing. We are talking right up my ally. I see some of you are mixing up assault weapons with hunting guns again. Basically the only thing different about the them, is that one accepts a bayonet and a flash hider. (Assault weapon). Hell, the Springfield single shot was considered an assault weapon once. Ask Custer. The Indians had Henrys and Winchesters. Shot well with them. As far as the new ones, they can not fire more then one shot with a single pull of the trigger. and I assure you the Mexicanos are using full autos. Our Modern rifles will not do that. Since 1986, no more full autos are available to be sold to the general public. Meaning, price then was about $2000 and is now $20,000. Yes they are legal to own, (at least in my state), by going through a background check by ATF and paying the fee. So pray tell, where are the machine guns coming from. Federalies ? Who knows. Care to debate some more ?

great points elk... that's called having historical relevance.

but why are the majority of the Mexican gun seizures traceable to US manufacture?

Just like with money shipments... they are assembled from smaller supplies from throughout the country, shipped en masse, split up again, and crossed over. You have heard that the cartels are infiltrated in something like 48 of the 50 states right? That's a lot of personnel available to do some Gestalt shopping from all kinds of locales. And thank you for being a reputable dealer... but that doesn't guarantee that your competition is that way or some of the one-at-a-time buyers aren't collecting for a larger shipment.

wetback is a slur and a racist one at thart

rednecks is not.....look at blue collar tour and others....i be called a redneck and never took offense...in maine, everyone thought i was from mississippi

If you are not a Redneck... Why "would" you be offended>?

If someone called me Niggger or Redneck or towel-head it would not offend me either.

Typically they are meant to offend someones race or class... especially when "Dumb" is coupled with it.

As for the Blue collar tour, does the Dave Chappelle's Show, then give license as well?

As for the dumb comment, I added the dumb part for clarification because the rednecks in the video I watched looked pretty dumb to me. Not all rednecks are dumb, but they were.

So by posting a vid of one jackass it proves what?

I'm trying to see what the point of a random vid is?

You of all people shouldn't question such logic. Using random, extreme videos as generalizing evidence happens to be one of your observable qualities here.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

Never thought I would be assisting cry_baby_pants with Mega Nerds (Hal 9000) links but they interesting.

U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

ATF chief: Most illegal guns seized in Mexico are from U.S.

August 12, 2008

EL PASO, Texas – Nearly all illegal guns seized in Mexico come from the United States, the head of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said yesterday.

ATF acting director Michael Sullivan said investigators have traced 90 percent to 95 percent of the weapons found in Mexico to the United States. Generally, only law enforcement officers or military personnel can legally possess guns in Mexico.

sir u are right all military style weapons should be outrightly ban, I don't own a gun but beleive people should be abble to protect them self with an hand gun not a war gun, Pre. Obama its time to make those promises come to life pls do something b4 criminal take over this beloved Country

"military style weapons"... would that include a handgun and knife? They are both military weapons sold on the open market.

To wade into this debate, (with any credibility) one must first know a little something about what it is you want to ban.

and these too, outlaw them now!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Never thought I would be assisting cry_baby_pants with Mega Nerds (Hal 9000) links but they interesting.

U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

ATF chief: Most illegal guns seized in Mexico are from U.S.

August 12, 2008

EL PASO, Texas – Nearly all illegal guns seized in Mexico come from the United States, the head of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said yesterday.

ATF acting director Michael Sullivan said investigators have traced 90 percent to 95 percent of the weapons found in Mexico to the United States. Generally, only law enforcement officers or military personnel can legally possess guns in Mexico.

sir u are right all military style weapons should be outrightly ban, I don't own a gun but beleive people should be abble to protect them self with an hand gun not a war gun, Pre. Obama its time to make those promises come to life pls do something b4 criminal take over this beloved Country

"military style weapons"... would that include a handgun and knife? They are both military weapons sold on the open market.

To wade into this debate, (with any credibility) one must first know a little something about what it is you want to ban.

That can be done without individuals here needing to be particularly knowledgable about said firearms. Like I said - it doesn't sound like it would be difficult to identify certain models and features that should not be available to the public retail market.

The UK did a similar thing about dangerous dogs a few years back.

For real? Isn't that like putting dogs into groups and judging (condemning) them? Tsk tsk.

It's not right to judge every dog in a group for the actions of a literal few.

There is a Principle here and I am surprised you are on the wrong side of this.

Certain breeds associated with violent attacks have to wear muzzles and be leashed at all times when out in public (Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Pit Bulls etc). They also have to be neutered. Seems to be somewhat preferable to someone having their throat torn out. Its also not legal to own exotic animals like Chimpanzees. Surprisingly enough..

I don't know how effective it was - but the UK seems to use precedent to change the laws. We had the same thing with knives and guns after several high profile incidents - naturally there's a lot of political pandering that goes into this. The gun ban got a lot of heat for subsequent increases in the crime rate - but the reality is that gun crime was low even before the Dunblane Massacre (and Hungerford in the 80s), so the massive increases that were touted about in the media there - amounted to a few hundred cases if that.

But lets be honest here - the gun folks only care about these semantic distinctions defining "assault weapons" because they think that restrictions one type of firearm is one step away from them all. Given how much emphasis is placed on the second amendment in this country - it doesn't seem that that's a particularly likely outcome.

Certainly there is evidence that guns have a deterrent effect on crime, then again the gun crime rate in this country (and the rate of suicide by gun) is high enough to make the objections rather irrelevant.

[Peikko 1,575]

Redneck is not racist. Rude, perhaps bigoted, but not racist. Most often the appellant and the named are of the same race. It is not weighted with the same contextual bias, a history of oppression and more importantly, the rednecks themselves coined the phrase to describe themselves, as I understand it, it was not ever designed to make rednecks feel inferior.

so you're saying this is kinda like when one black guy says to another, "what's up , my ***?"

so, in your perfect world, he can use the word, but i can't? what if i was using it in the same spirit, say like i'm the guy in the "8 Mile" movie, and just trying to fit in. would i then be called a racist only on basis of my skin color and another person's stereotype of the intent of the words of the white guy?

so when a black guy calls me "cuz", and i call him "cuz" back, is this racism, or just harmonious communication. please clarify, oh arbiter of all things involving racism, definer of teh roles of cultures, and the appropriate relatios between them, divider of the peoples on basis of color and creed.

Shooter, racism is what it is. I suggest you try watching Bedazzled, and start reading some historical material regarding the roots of racism in America. What is and isn't racism is not dictated by what I think and believe.

No, and not the Dudly Moore/Peter Cook one either - although that is quite funny.

I meant Bamboozled It's a very good film, you might even enjoy it.

[Peikko 1,575]

Never thought I would be assisting cry_baby_pants with Mega Nerds (Hal 9000) links but they interesting.

U.S. Guns Behind Cartel Killings in Mexico

U.S. Gun Trial Echoes in Drug-Torn Mexico

ATF chief: Most illegal guns seized in Mexico are from U.S.

August 12, 2008

EL PASO, Texas – Nearly all illegal guns seized in Mexico come from the United States, the head of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said yesterday.

ATF acting director Michael Sullivan said investigators have traced 90 percent to 95 percent of the weapons found in Mexico to the United States. Generally, only law enforcement officers or military personnel can legally possess guns in Mexico.

sir u are right all military style weapons should be outrightly ban, I don't own a gun but beleive people should be abble to protect them self with an hand gun not a war gun, Pre. Obama its time to make those promises come to life pls do something b4 criminal take over this beloved Country

"military style weapons"... would that include a handgun and knife? They are both military weapons sold on the open market.

To wade into this debate, (with any credibility) one must first know a little something about what it is you want to ban.

That can be done without individuals here needing to be particularly knowledgable about said firearms. Like I said - it doesn't sound like it would be difficult to identify certain models and features that should not be available to the public retail market.

The UK did a similar thing about dangerous dogs a few years back.

For real? Isn't that like putting dogs into groups and judging (condemning) them? Tsk tsk.

It's not right to judge every dog in a group for the actions of a literal few.

There is a Principle here and I am surprised you are on the wrong side of this.

Certain breeds associated with violent attacks have to wear muzzles and be leashed at all times when out in public (Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Pit Bulls etc). They also have to be neutered. Seems to be somewhat preferable to someone having their throat torn out. Its also not legal to own exotic animals like Chimpanzees. Surprisingly enough..

I don't know how effective it was - but the UK seems to use precedent to change the laws. We had the same thing with knives and guns after several high profile incidents - naturally there's a lot of political pandering that goes into this. The gun ban got a lot of heat for subsequent increases in the crime rate - but the reality is that gun crime was low even before the Dunblane Massacre (and Hungerford in the 80s), so the massive increases that were touted about in the media there - amounted to a few hundred cases if that.

But lets be honest here - the gun folks only care about these semantic distinctions defining "assault weapons" because they think that restrictions one type of firearm is one step away from them all. Given how much emphasis is placed on the second amendment in this country - it doesn't seem that that's a particularly likely outcome.

Certainly there is evidence that guns have a deterrent effect on crime, then again the gun crime rate in this country (and the rate of suicide by gun) is high enough to make the objections rather irrelevant.

I read recently that it also had to do with the way crimes were reported within the force that changed around about the same time. What is clear though, is that violent crimes and violence committed against police offices is a lot lower in the UK, and the police themselves for the most part still do not carry guns.

Of course, the UK is a very different type of country than the US. However, it is still legal to own a gun in the UK, which might surprise some US folks too.

The last report I read pretty much confounded the notion that owning a gun had a deterrent effect. No evidence to support it, and in fact exacerbated situations, making them more likely to turn fatal.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I suspect there are probably other contributory factors at work, rather than the presence of the gun. By and large the criminals do seem rather more bloodthirsty here than in the UK. My wife just got off a month long jury duty - for a case that involved a guy breaking into a house and raping a woman before stabbing her to death, strangling her two young children and then trying to get rid of the forensic evidence by dousing the bodies with ammonia.

Its the most heinous murder I've ever heard of and something that that would be frontpage news in the UK, but as far as I could tell only one local newspaper here followed the story. Basically it was a black on black case - that took place in a city where such things are commonplace. Much the same as the weekly shootings in Newark - everyone knows about it, but it happens with such regularity that its deemed to be "normal".

You can own a gun in the UK, but they have to be strictly registered and kept at a shooting club. I don't think you can keep a "live" gun in your home. There has been some trouble with replica weapons being used in attempted robberies - but certainly you don't hear of actual gun crimes outside of a few that take place in Manchester, Birmingham or London, the majority of which are related to organised crime.

Certainly the sorts of crimes you get here in the US are on a whole other scale to what we're used to in Europe. We get our share of random nutters and serial killers (or people imprisoning their daughters in basements for the purposes of incest-slavery), but nothing much more sensational than that.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Private Pike

[stangguy 0]

sir u are right all military style weapons should be outrightly ban, I don't own a gun but beleive people should be abble to protect them self with an hand gun not a war gun, Pre. Obama its time to make those promises come to life pls do something b4 criminal take over this beloved Country

The first battle of the revolutionary war at Lexington was fought to protect the self organized militia's storage of firearms, as the British regulars were coming to sieze the cache of weapons. Once the British military siezed Boston in order for their freedom to leave the city, colonists had to relinquish their firearms. The British did this to restrict the ability of the colonists to fight back. It is for these reasons that we have the second ammendment. The second ammendment is about having the right to fight back against our own government with force if the time comes to do so. Prohibiting citizens direct access to military quality semi-automatic weapons is every bit an infringement on the ability to adequately confront the govenrment with force.

Edited March 25, 2009 by stangguy

[justashooter 430]

Shooter, racism is what it is. I suggest you try watching Bedazzled, and start reading some historical material regarding the roots of racism in America. What is and isn't racism is not dictated by what I think and believe.

honey bun,

racism is unwarranted discrimination or harrasment. wisdom is warranted discrimination or responsive action. wisdom is recognising the white elephant in the room, and shooting it in self defense.

therefore, stating or acknowledging a verifiable fact is not racism, nor is acting in accordance with a logical response to the verifiable fact, despite what you and some of the moderators on this board might want to believe.

you seem to want us all to stand still while the elephant trashes the room and the occupants thereof. it ain't gonna happen.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Shooter Boy - The "white elephant" is the assumption that all disparaging labels are equal, have an equal weight of meaning and an equal context of meaning behind them.

[Peikko 1,575]

More indiscriminate goodling Shooter? I suggest you try to do something about that, or you may find yourself on the wrong side of the door, again.

[john & jean 37]

[justashooter 430]

Shooter Boy - The "white elephant" is the assumption that all disparaging labels are equal, have an equal weight of meaning and an equal context of meaning behind them.

the white elephant is the danger to an orderly society that must be dealt with. it is not an assumption. it is a statistically verifiable fact. the white elephant is any destructive force, regardless of it's origin.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Shooter Boy - The "white elephant" is the assumption that all disparaging labels are equal, have an equal weight of meaning and an equal context of meaning behind them.

the white elephant is the danger to an orderly society that must be dealt with. it is not an assumption. it is a statistically verifiable fact. the white elephant is any destructive force, regardless of it's origin.

With that incomprehensible weirdness - it seems that you just became the white elephant.