Police gunning to equal criminals' firepower with assault rifles

[HAL 9000 96]

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

Of course. There are a lot of neighborhoods that are gone. No amount of money or so-called education will fix the mess. The only solution is proactive policing. Police on the streets and random spot checks. As well as strict anti-loitering laws. It's not the first time a few towns have gone to ###### in history that required strong-arm tactics to bring them back.

I was mainly referring to being too late for the individuals but yes certain neoghborhoods fit that too. NY in the 80's had many dilapidated areas but now most are in the process of gentrification. Harlem is not what it once was. Part of the turn around has been attributed, not to strong arm tactics, but something far more subtle. The so called broken window policy. If a window was broken it got fixed, if there was graffiti it was cleaned up etc. This gave people pride in their neighbourhood again and helped clean up (not just physically) the area. Granted there are still bad areas of NYC but not as many as there were 25 years ago.

Well there's gentrification and then there's community cleanup. In Chicago gentrification has taken another meaning altogether but its more due to racial segregation in America's most segregated city (good thing and bad thing all rolled into one).

As a result of the community cleanup here (gentrification is nearly complete in the previously targeted areas) there are several urban renewals going on that are going quite counter to the doom and gloom of people that can only think in terms of e-macho. As a matter of fact I have worked in the past as a teacher in communities like these where these e-machos wouldn't be caught dead, and have seen progress from the early stages of pre-adulthood into now university.

[Peikko 1,575]

There has to be consequences. A good azz whooping should be the courts 1st option in 'rehabilitating' violent offenders. Its all they understand.

Violence just breeds more violence though. If it didn't people would get out jail completely rehabilitated - and we know that's not the case.

You don't forfeit "human rights". They are inalienable.

Unfortunately the victims don't seem to have this right.

Better luck net time for the 16,204 murdered in the US, right?

Crime is a fact of life.

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

I'm not sure how true that is. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that what victims of crime would like an apology or to understand why they have been targeted, but I don't think it's all that common for them to wish physical violence on the perpetrator.

If my wife was attacked I would not give two hoots about an apology or an explaination. I would be out for retribution. It depends on the individual, and I am not a violent vengeful person but somethings are unforgiveable in my eyes.

He's probably a bum, has no job or home so he doesn't need to travel between them. Oh, and gets $110 ph to do it.

That wasn't the point smart ####. Private Azz is know as a stereotypical head in the sand Britt. Like a lot of Brits he has an opinion and a big mouth about everything.

PS Don't be jealous of the pay. I have a good friend in NYC who works for a Briiiiiiiiitish company earning even more, up to $190 an hour. How much are you earning in NYC? Or are you shinning boots guuvennaa...

No, Im a chimney sweep.

I am not saying that everyone reacts the same way, I was just saying that there is a lot of evidence that victims of crimes, even violent crimes do not react in ways that some might deem normal. It is very common for them to seek reasons why and apologies, it's less common for them to seek retribution, or at least that is my understanding of the data that I have seen on the matter.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well what's your point BY - that all Brits somehow think the same?

Should I be worried that friends of yours don't like my opinions?

Of course - given how awful you are at actually reading and understanding people's opinions, I'm inclined to believe that you aren't the best advocate for explaining my views to... anyone.

No, just yours. I am not too fluent in bullsh-t.

Most people have a stance on something rather than a 'why do you hate black people' approach to everything. Whenever I come across someone with that attitude I know they are an idiot.

Doesn't the second part of your little diatribe contradict the second?

You can't explain someone's views if you don't understand them BY, and you're always the first to mischaracterise or misquote others.

Its no skin off my balls - but it is a weakness on your part that's very apparent.

[Heracles 417]

Well there's gentrification and then there's community cleanup. In Chicago gentrification has taken another meaning altogether but its more due to racial segregation in America's most segregated city (good thing and bad thing all rolled into one).

As a result of the community cleanup here (gentrification is nearly complete in the previously targeted areas) there are several urban renewals going on that are going quite counter to the doom and gloom of people that can only think in terms of e-macho. As a matter of fact I have worked in the past as a teacher in communities like these where these e-machos wouldn't be caught dead, and have seen progress from the early stages of pre-adulthood into now university.

Chicago Beats New York, Los Angeles In Murders

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/chicago.homic...e.2.847736.html

[fozzie 41]

No, Im a chimney sweep.

Awesome!

Not really, have you seen the size of the buildings in NY!

[Heracles 417]

You can't explain someone's views if you don't understand them BY, and you're always the first to mischaracterise or misquote others.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black here. Geezz mate.

I think we summed this up here for you:

ok the whinebags are in a tizzy...my work here is done.

Implying with six only works when it comes to other people's posts. Particularly those posters he doesn't like.

Typical conversation with him:

I could have said "I don't like black...." - Six's Response: You Racist Pig!!

"cars as they scratch too easy." - Six's Response: nah nah you're racist!!

"No, I said and meant a car's actual color" - Six's Response: Stop whining

Edited March 23, 2009 by Constellation

[fozzie 41]

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

Of course. There are a lot of neighborhoods that are gone. No amount of money or so-called education will fix the mess. The only solution is proactive policing. Police on the streets and random spot checks. As well as strict anti-loitering laws. It's not the first time a few towns have gone to ###### in history that required strong-arm tactics to bring them back.

I was mainly referring to being too late for the individuals but yes certain neoghborhoods fit that too. NY in the 80's had many dilapidated areas but now most are in the process of gentrification. Harlem is not what it once was. Part of the turn around has been attributed, not to strong arm tactics, but something far more subtle. The so called broken window policy. If a window was broken it got fixed, if there was graffiti it was cleaned up etc. This gave people pride in their neighbourhood again and helped clean up (not just physically) the area. Granted there are still bad areas of NYC but not as many as there were 25 years ago.

Well there's gentrification and then there's community cleanup. In Chicago gentrification has taken another meaning altogether but its more due to racial segregation in America's most segregated city (good thing and bad thing all rolled into one).

As a result of the community cleanup here (gentrification is nearly complete in the previously targeted areas) there are several urban renewals going on that are going quite counter to the doom and gloom of people that can only think in terms of e-macho. As a matter of fact I have worked in the past as a teacher in communities like these where these e-machos wouldn't be caught dead, and have seen progress from the early stages of pre-adulthood into now university.

Its funny you should say that, I was talking to a black colleague about a month ago about gentrification and she asked what it meant. Another black colleague clarified it for her like this "it's when the white folk move in".

[HAL 9000 96]

There has to be consequences. A good azz whooping should be the courts 1st option in 'rehabilitating' violent offenders. Its all they understand.

Violence just breeds more violence though. If it didn't people would get out jail completely rehabilitated - and we know that's not the case.

You don't forfeit "human rights". They are inalienable.

Unfortunately the victims don't seem to have this right.

Better luck net time for the 16,204 murdered in the US, right?

Crime is a fact of life.

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

I'm not sure how true that is. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that what victims of crime would like an apology or to understand why they have been targeted, but I don't think it's all that common for them to wish physical violence on the perpetrator.

If my wife was attacked I would not give two hoots about an apology or an explaination. I would be out for retribution. It depends on the individual, and I am not a violent vengeful person but somethings are unforgiveable in my eyes.

See I totally believe you would feel like that. I'd feel like it too in the same circumstances...

But.... the justice system isn't designed around giving us that sort of revenge.

Its supposed to be impartial and somewhat objective - something you or I at our absolute worst could never claim to be.

Well... I beg to differ. At the least I can say with some certainty that law enforcement is more sympathetic to people that take instant revenge in 'self defense' even if slightly excessive. 'People' meaning individuals or even businesses that have caught criminal activity on their grounds.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There has to be consequences. A good azz whooping should be the courts 1st option in 'rehabilitating' violent offenders. Its all they understand.

Violence just breeds more violence though. If it didn't people would get out jail completely rehabilitated - and we know that's not the case.

You don't forfeit "human rights". They are inalienable.

Unfortunately the victims don't seem to have this right.

Better luck net time for the 16,204 murdered in the US, right?

Crime is a fact of life.

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

I'm not sure how true that is. There is plenty of evidence to support the idea that what victims of crime would like an apology or to understand why they have been targeted, but I don't think it's all that common for them to wish physical violence on the perpetrator.

If my wife was attacked I would not give two hoots about an apology or an explaination. I would be out for retribution. It depends on the individual, and I am not a violent vengeful person but somethings are unforgiveable in my eyes.

See I totally believe you would feel like that. I'd feel like it too in the same circumstances...

But.... the justice system isn't designed around giving us that sort of revenge.

Its supposed to be impartial and somewhat objective - something you or I at our absolute worst could never claim to be.

Well... I beg to differ. At the least I can say with some certainty that law enforcement is more sympathetic to people that take instant revenge in 'self defense' even if slightly excessive. 'People' meaning individuals or even businesses that have caught criminal activity on their grounds.

Yeah - but those are generally dealt with on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances and the level of violence involved.

At least in the UK, you could be found guilty of manslaughter if it were determined that you employed a level of force disproportionate to the situation. Self-defence might allow you to stab someone to death who is attacking you, but you could be jailed for manslaughter if you stab and beat to death a guy who has his back to you and is on the way out the door.

[Heracles 417]

Yeah - but those are generally dealt with on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances and the level of violence involved.

At least in the UK, you could be found guilty of manslaughter if it were determined that you employed a level of force disproportionate to the situation. Self-defence might allow you to stab someone to death who is attacking you, but you could be jailed for manslaughter if you stab and beat to death a guy who has his back to you and is on the way out the door.

Also happens to be the same country which allows rapist to get away because a 10 year old looked 16. Twice might I add.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Every country has controversial court rulings.

[HAL 9000 96]

I know but for some its already too late. The trend has already continued to this point and I doubt that many violent criminals are open to being any different. They blame society and take no responibility. Not that an actual azz whooping would do any good but damn it would make the victims feel better!

Of course. There are a lot of neighborhoods that are gone. No amount of money or so-called education will fix the mess. The only solution is proactive policing. Police on the streets and random spot checks. As well as strict anti-loitering laws. It's not the first time a few towns have gone to ###### in history that required strong-arm tactics to bring them back.

I was mainly referring to being too late for the individuals but yes certain neoghborhoods fit that too. NY in the 80's had many dilapidated areas but now most are in the process of gentrification. Harlem is not what it once was. Part of the turn around has been attributed, not to strong arm tactics, but something far more subtle. The so called broken window policy. If a window was broken it got fixed, if there was graffiti it was cleaned up etc. This gave people pride in their neighbourhood again and helped clean up (not just physically) the area. Granted there are still bad areas of NYC but not as many as there were 25 years ago.

Well there's gentrification and then there's community cleanup. In Chicago gentrification has taken another meaning altogether but its more due to racial segregation in America's most segregated city (good thing and bad thing all rolled into one).

As a result of the community cleanup here (gentrification is nearly complete in the previously targeted areas) there are several urban renewals going on that are going quite counter to the doom and gloom of people that can only think in terms of e-macho. As a matter of fact I have worked in the past as a teacher in communities like these where these e-machos wouldn't be caught dead, and have seen progress from the early stages of pre-adulthood into now university.

Its funny you should say that, I was talking to a black colleague about a month ago about gentrification and she asked what it meant. Another black colleague clarified it for her like this "it's when the white folk move in".

Pretty much.

In concept the idea is brilliant.

College students and artists move into a poor neighborhood.

The area becomes 'cool.'

As rent increases in the area due to more and more landlords cashing in on their new tenants, yuppies start to move in. Rent continues to increase... property values increase more. Tax revenue increases even more.

As properties get renovated, suburbanites with money move in. Starbucks and Urban Outfitter move in. $2000 baby strollers clog the entrances to local boutiques.

Properties get bought by real estate developers. Multi-unit buildings start growing out of parkland and smaller-unit buildings. Tax revenues increase even more.

Then city aldermen get investigated by the feds for corruption. Democrats and Republicans alike.

Then... what I am seeing now:

1. More and more previous residents of these areas move to the suburbs and join the gentrification flow back to their old communities. All races included.

2. Gentrified neighborhoods stagnate due to economic pressure. Rents drop. Neighborhoods diversify again.

Yeah - but those are generally dealt with on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances and the level of violence involved.

At least in the UK, you could be found guilty of manslaughter if it were determined that you employed a level of force disproportionate to the situation. Self-defence might allow you to stab someone to death who is attacking you, but you could be jailed for manslaughter if you stab and beat to death a guy who has his back to you and is on the way out the door.

Exactly. Every situation has its circumstances. Generalizing them would be completely retarded.

[Heracles 417]

Every country has controversial court rulings.

I am not denying it. Australia is just as bad as the UK when it comes to sympathizing with criminals. The one big posisitive of the US system is that once caught, they get what they deserve.

The problem with the US system unlike (Australia or the UK) is that the police legally have little to no pro-active policing abilities. Without probably cause they cannot do anything., Even when seeing a car load of guys cruising around at 3 am, in a neighborhood know for violence. Whereas in Aus the cops can and would pull them over, conduct a random breath test (drugs or drink driving) and ask what they are doing or where they are going.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Constellation

[Heracles 417]

In concept the idea is brilliant.

College students and artists move into a poor neighborhood.

The area becomes 'cool.'

As rent increases in the area due to more and more landlords cashing in on their new tenants, yuppies start to move in. Rent continues to increase... property values increase more. Tax revenue increases even more.

As properties get renovated, suburbanites with money move in. Starbucks and Urban Outfitter move in. $2000 baby strollers clog the entrances to local boutiques.

Properties get bought by real estate developers. Multi-unit buildings start growing out of parkland and smaller-unit buildings. Tax revenues increase even more.

Then city aldermen get investigated by the feds for corruption. Democrats and Republicans alike.

Then... what I am seeing now:

1. More and more previous residents of these areas move to the suburbs and join the gentrification flow back to their old communities. All races included.

2. Gentrified neighborhoods stagnate due to economic pressure. Rents drop. Neighborhoods diversify again.

What Chicago do you live in?

These students would be robed, raped and murdered.

And / or all of the above.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Constellation

[HAL 9000 96]

The areas of Lincoln Park, Humboldt Park, Bucktown, Wicker Park, Lakeview, Bronzeville, Woodlawn, North Kenwood, Ukrainian Village, East Village, River East, South Loop, etc all bear witness to this phenomenon that has occured and is still in process.