Lovelle Mixon: Oakland Police Shooter Kills 4 Cops

[Peikko 1,575]

.38 vs .223 (7.62x39) vs .243 vs .22 vs 9mm vs .45acp, vs .308 vs etc etc ... any will ruin someones day.

What does the caliber or riffle have to do with it though. I know a lot of people who own such weapons yet don't go murdering cops. Let alone for simply being pulled over.

The facts in this case is that this 27 year old was a convicted felon. This wasn't some guy off the street who went postal. The guns were most likely obtained in the black market anyway. Something legislation cannot stop being so close to Mexico and since having such an open border policy. Even a total gun bad would not have prevented this.

You are wrong, there is no conspiracy. Your evidence is like your statistics.

Yeah something you will discredit and deny no mater what it is. For the soles reason that I posted it. As is the case with many other posters you and your group of buddies dislike.

I don't dislike anyone BY. I don't post based on who I like and who I dislike. I don't have a group of buddies I am just me, posting about whatever strikes my fancy. Still, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories, there is simply nothing I can do to stop you.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[anitacastillo 0]

First 2 officers killed were on motorcycles, making a traffic stop. The second two(SWAT) were trying to get to the criminal in an apartment - not an easy place to approach.

So sad.

[justashooter 430]

Its possible sure. Its also possible that the fact that the guy had an assault rifle (as opposed to a .38 revolver) allowed him to hold out longer.

private cryin hasn't ever heard of Ed Mcgivern.

[Heracles 417]

I don't dislike anyone BY. I don't post based on who I live and who I dislike. I don't have a group of buddies I am just me, posting about whatever strikes my fancy. Still, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories, there is simply nothing I can do to stop you.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's actuality. Your posts as those of your buddies speak for themselves. Same as the actions of certain groups in this country speaks for itself.

You are at least genuine. While misguided but genuine. Private Azz on the other hand has nothing better to do. Hence why he camps out here to tell people how wrong they are.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Constellation

[Peikko 1,575]

First 2 officers killed were on motorcycles, making a traffic stop. The second two(SWAT) were trying to get to the criminal in an apartment - not an easy place to approach.

So sad.

Yes, it is sad. I am guessing that he made the decision not to be arrested, no matter what the outcome, so as soon as they tried to stop him, he started firing. Terrible really, and quite unusual. Most people do not react like that, even if they are on parole, or what have you.

[natty bumppo 297]

As for the rest, as your line or reasoning is based on such faulty analysis of data, I really can't see any point continuing down any of the paths you suggest.

There isn't any outrage against any firearms that I can tell. FP is quite sensibly wondering whether it makes sense to allow certain types of firearms to be within the public realm because it seems likely that the loss of life was made worse by his being more heavily armed than is usual.

certain types? define based on more than cosmetic descriptions.

Presumably the sort of firearms that allow a person to gun down 2 police officers then hold off a SWAT team and gun down two of them.

Excepting the possibility that the guy is some sort of master of the bullet-ballet to rival a character in John Woo movie - it might be reasonably surmised that the technology the guy had access to had something to do with his "success"

That is my point. The first deaths can be attributed to the surprise factor, but against a SWAT team?

a swat team is "perfect" and people don't make mistakes? expose themselves unnecessarily? the perp had zero to lose ... he knew the game was over... and basically his last option was suicide by cop.

They don't take unnecessary risks and are highly trained. I am not sure, are you suggesting that these SWAT members were somehow less capable than usual? Would it really hurt anything to admit that the fire power of one of his weapons was greater than was normally encountered in such situations?

What ... the swat team is not trained to go against someone with a firearm? or a lone wacko with a semi? maybe they weren't expecting a second firearm to appear and rushed into things. who knows at this point.

still waiting for you to give a clear definition for "certain types of firearms" features that are bad as any firearm can be used to "gun down 2 police officers then hold off a SWAT team and gun down two of them". doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a person with any loaded firearm with intent to maim will hold a swat team off for a while.

This was a very unusual outcome what ever way you look at it. One officer killed is bad enough, but 4? Something about this situation did not pan out in the normal way. I don't know what that something is, or even if there are a series of somethings. However, it's not ridiculous to assume that something about the weaponry the perpetrator was using contributed to how this situation played out.

Of course, no one here has said that other factors could not be involved, we simply do not know, but to deny that it is a possibility seems, well strange and illogical to me.

any officer killed is one too many. this perp had everything to lose and apparently stopped at nothing to keep from being re-incarcerated. so he chose to try and "fight" his way out ... forgetting that to do this was a one way ticket for himself. maybe you are enamored with firepower, rate of fire, cosmetics, buzz words, etc. ever consider that maybe he was a good (or lucky) shot?

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't dislike anyone BY. I don't post based on who I live and who I dislike. I don't have a group of buddies I am just me, posting about whatever strikes my fancy. Still, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories, there is simply nothing I can do to stop you.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's actuality. Your posts as those of your buddies speak for themselves. Same as the actions of certain groups in this country speaks for itself.

You are at least genuine. While misguided but genuine. Private Azz on the other hand has nothing better to do. Hence why he camps out here to tell people how wrong they are.

It's not a conspiracy. Everyone is posting independently. There is no collaboration. Sometimes one opinion becomes predominant, sometimes it doesn't. Very often it's a question of the subject matter and how a posted opinion is presented.

[Peikko 1,575]

As for the rest, as your line or reasoning is based on such faulty analysis of data, I really can't see any point continuing down any of the paths you suggest.

There isn't any outrage against any firearms that I can tell. FP is quite sensibly wondering whether it makes sense to allow certain types of firearms to be within the public realm because it seems likely that the loss of life was made worse by his being more heavily armed than is usual.

certain types? define based on more than cosmetic descriptions.

Presumably the sort of firearms that allow a person to gun down 2 police officers then hold off a SWAT team and gun down two of them.

Excepting the possibility that the guy is some sort of master of the bullet-ballet to rival a character in John Woo movie - it might be reasonably surmised that the technology the guy had access to had something to do with his "success"

That is my point. The first deaths can be attributed to the surprise factor, but against a SWAT team?

a swat team is "perfect" and people don't make mistakes? expose themselves unnecessarily? the perp had zero to lose ... he knew the game was over... and basically his last option was suicide by cop.

They don't take unnecessary risks and are highly trained. I am not sure, are you suggesting that these SWAT members were somehow less capable than usual? Would it really hurt anything to admit that the fire power of one of his weapons was greater than was normally encountered in such situations?

What ... the swat team is not trained to go against someone with a firearm? or a lone wacko with a semi? maybe they weren't expecting a second firearm to appear and rushed into things. who knows at this point.

still waiting for you to give a clear definition for "certain types of firearms" features that are bad as any firearm can be used to "gun down 2 police officers then hold off a SWAT team and gun down two of them". doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a person with any loaded firearm with intent to maim will hold a swat team off for a while.

This was a very unusual outcome what ever way you look at it. One officer killed is bad enough, but 4? Something about this situation did not pan out in the normal way. I don't know what that something is, or even if there are a series of somethings. However, it's not ridiculous to assume that something about the weaponry the perpetrator was using contributed to how this situation played out.

Of course, no one here has said that other factors could not be involved, we simply do not know, but to deny that it is a possibility seems, well strange and illogical to me.

any officer killed is one too many. this perp had everything to lose and apparently stopped at nothing to keep from being re-incarcerated. so he chose to try and "fight" his way out ... forgetting that to do this was a one way ticket for himself. maybe you are enamored with firepower, rate of fire, cosmetics, buzz words, etc. ever consider that maybe he was a good (or lucky) shot?

I have considered a number of possibilities, even though doing so is merely conjecture. I am guessing, as I previously posted, that this person for whatever reason decided not be be arrested and avoided doing so at whatever the cost, whatever the cost was the death 4 police officers and himself. It is possible that he was 'lucky', a good shot and that he had more powerful weapons than are normally encountered in these situations. Guess what? I don't know the answer and neither do you.

[HAL 9000 96]

We'll find out more about this in the weeks ahead, but Charles, I seriously doubt he was able to hit 2 SWAT members with a shot to the head. Also, that assault rifle may have been modified to be fully automatic. I'll be interested to see how he obtained the weapon.

conversion kits for just about any semi auto rifle can be bought off the internet for around $40.

Go figure.

Since there is really little that can be done to curb a jerk's attitude as an adult without the luxury of an educational and social structure that prevents these kinds of downward turns in behavior- the best possible way of preventing the deadly guns end up in the wrong hands is to control the flow of guns all the way from their manufacture.

[Heracles 417]

Go figure.

Since there is really little that can be done to curb a jerk's attitude as an adult without the luxury of an educational and social structure that prevents these kinds of downward turns in behavior- the best possible way of preventing the deadly guns end up in the wrong hands is to control the flow of guns all the way from their manufacture.

What about the guns coming in from Mexico? If you can smuggle human beings it's not that hard to smuggle guns.

There is also an estimated 200,000,000 guns already in circulation, in the US alone. What happens to them? You can enact all of the laws you like but how are you going to remove these from circulation?

What is funny is how people like steveazz and co support legalizing drugs but at the same time are pro restricting guns. And you guys have the nerve to accuse me and others of being illogical.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Constellation

[HAL 9000 96]

First 2 officers killed were on motorcycles, making a traffic stop. The second two(SWAT) were trying to get to the criminal in an apartment - not an easy place to approach.

So sad.

Absolutely.

My sympathies to their families and your community, now having 4 less police officers to protect and serve.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its possible sure. Its also possible that the fact that the guy had an assault rifle (as opposed to a .38 revolver) allowed him to hold out longer.

private cryin hasn't ever heard of Ed Mcgivern.

I hadn't. But I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote.

Since we're all speculating - anything is possible. Perhaps the cops were "unlucky", perhaps the guy was a good shot.

Personally I think the outcome had a lot to do with the amount of firepower the guy had access to.

[john & jean 37]

We'll find out more about this in the weeks ahead, but Charles, I seriously doubt he was able to hit 2 SWAT members with a shot to the head. Also, that assault rifle may have been modified to be fully automatic. I'll be interested to see how he obtained the weapon.

conversion kits for just about any semi auto rifle can be bought off the internet for around $40.

Go figure.

Since there is really little that can be done to curb a jerk's attitude as an adult without the luxury of an educational and social structure that prevents these kinds of downward turns in behavior- the best possible way of preventing the deadly guns end up in the wrong hands is to control the flow of guns all the way from their manufacture.

7.62x39 most common ammo will not be stopped by a vest. just like many other large caliber hard jacket ammo a vest will not stop, agree with smoke. ANY WILL CAUSE A BAD DAY.....

[HAL 9000 96]

We'll find out more about this in the weeks ahead, but Charles, I seriously doubt he was able to hit 2 SWAT members with a shot to the head. Also, that assault rifle may have been modified to be fully automatic. I'll be interested to see how he obtained the weapon.

conversion kits for just about any semi auto rifle can be bought off the internet for around $40.

Go figure.

Since there is really little that can be done to curb a jerk's attitude as an adult without the luxury of an educational and social structure that prevents these kinds of downward turns in behavior- the best possible way of preventing the deadly guns end up in the wrong hands is to control the flow of guns all the way from their manufacture.

Just as a bump- it is indeed a curious fact that the US gun industry is the principal supplier of Mexico's drug cartel weaponry, so balancing sensible gun control from the manufacture point of view in the US not only allows US law enforcement to apply its manpower to combat the present inventory of gun violence in this country- but it will at reduce the flow of weapons going South. Thereby making the border zone less deadly.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't dislike anyone BY. I don't post based on who I live and who I dislike. I don't have a group of buddies I am just me, posting about whatever strikes my fancy. Still, if you want to believe in conspiracy theories, there is simply nothing I can do to stop you.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's actuality. Your posts as those of your buddies speak for themselves. Same as the actions of certain groups in this country speaks for itself.

You are at least genuine. While misguided but genuine. Private Azz on the other hand has nothing better to do. Hence why he camps out here to tell people how wrong they are.

Make up your mind BY. First you're screaming about how I'm so secretive about my personal life, then you do an about face and suggest that I have "nothing better to do".

If you really want to know why I respond to you BY - its because I think you're hilarious, a real life version of Basil Fawlty or Alf Garnet.

More pertinently though - its because I think your attempts at debate argument are completely ridiculous.