Withdrawal of Application

[MercyandBill 0]

Yes I did go to your link:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88120

There was not anything there except you and some of your friends telling prostitute jokes. Nothing useful at all.

I think that all you are interested in this forum for is entertainment value. What is all of this about the sodas and popcorn anyway!

It sounds like you think Mr. Bill that the Embassy never makes a mistake and that all the girls from Angeles City are whores anyway.

I do not need to post anything on this Forum, I have Lawyers, One of the Lawyers that I have has his Juris Doctor in Immigration Law which is equivalent to his PhD. I am posting here because I thought it was my civic duty to tell others about what was going on. I thought it would give me an outlet to talk to others that are having the same issues.

We could fight this in Federal Court and win but the lower courts cannot issues Visas all they can do is tell the USCIS that they did not follow there own procedures and send it back to do over. Then they will use the Moral Turpitude charge so they hold all the cards. Unless you fight them when the process is all over and then the courts do have a say but by then you might as well have gone through the waiver process. Which would be faster then going through the regular system and then going through the court system. Which is what my lawyers want me to do in the first place.

The problem I have with the waiver process is that it is just that "a Waiver" not an appeal! It supposes that you are guilty and asking for a waiver. I object to that greatly!!!

One other thing I can do is fight this is the court of public opinion which is what I thought I was doing here Silly Me! I guess that all the others that are getting screwed by the system are doing it right by not saying anything at all.

I guess this is a forum for only for those that think that the USCIS are angels and are granting blessings on all.

I have so much to say about this subject, process, and what the implications are. But it sounds like no one wants to hear it. I have rulings, case law, and what the other Lawyer that worked for the Embassy had to say about the process. I have discussed many of these things with my lawyers. I wanted to share some of this with you guys but I do not know if it was just a few bad apples like Charles or what. But it turned this into a three ring circus. It is not here for entertainment value it is a serious subject. But unfortunately for some of you I do have a life to go back to.

[CaNdiD wiTcH 0]

Yes I did go to your link:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88120

There was not anything there except you and some of your friends telling prostitute jokes. Nothing useful at all.

I think that all you are interested in this forum for is entertainment value. What is all of this about the sodas and popcorn anyway!

It sounds like you think Mr. Bill that the Embassy never makes a mistake and that all the girls from Angeles City are whores anyway.

I do not need to post anything on this Forum, I have Lawyers, One of the Lawyers that I have has his Juris Doctor in Immigration Law which is equivalent to his PhD. I am posting here because I thought it was my civic duty to tell others about what was going on. I thought it would give me an outlet to talk to others that are having the same issues.

We could fight this in Federal Court and win but the lower courts cannot issues Visas all they can do is tell the USCIS that they did not follow there own procedures and send it back to do over. Then they will use the Moral Turpitude charge so they hold all the cards. Unless you fight them when the process is all over and then the courts do have a say but by then you might as well have gone through the waiver process. Which would be faster then going through the regular system and then going through the court system. Which is what my lawyers want me to do in the first place.

The problem I have with the waiver process is that it is just that "a Waiver" not an appeal! It supposes that you are guilty and asking for a waiver. I object to that greatly!!!

One other thing I can do is fight this is the court of public opinion which is what I thought I was doing here Silly Me! I guess that all the others that are getting screwed by the system are doing it right by not saying anything at all.

I guess this is a forum for only for those that think that the USCIS are angels and are granting blessings on all.

I have so much to say about this subject, process, and what the implications are. But it sounds like no one wants to hear it. I have rulings, case law, and what the other Lawyer that worked for the Embassy had to say about the process. I have discussed many of these things with my lawyers. I wanted to share some of this with you guys but I do not know if it was just a few bad apples like Charles or what. But it turned this into a three ring circus. It is not here for entertainment value it is a serious subject. But unfortunately for some of you I do have a life to go back to.

Members in here dealt or are still dealing with USCIS and NO ONE ever mentioned that they are angels.. We all suffered and waited long enough just to get over and done with this very stressful process.. I cannot say anything against you as a person. I have no idea if what happened is true or not. All I could say is that you posted in a public forum. You cannot expect people in here to think like you do nor say words which you WANT or EXPECT to hear from them.. Do whatever you think is right. Goodluck!

Edited March 27, 2009 by CaNdiD wiTcH

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

I wanted to share some of this with you guys but I do not know if it was just a few bad apples like Charles or what.

i'm sure you're more than willing to point out what i did that was so bad.

[Tahoma 2,292]

Bill...

Thank you for posting this thread. You have brought to light what appears to be a dark side of the visa process.

At this point, what needs to be included in this story is Mercy's voice.

I believe that there are some Visa Journey members who could potentially benefit from hearing about Mercy's experience in her own words.

I am willing to pay for Mercy's taxi fare, and her fees at the local internet cafe, in order for he to be able to post her first-hand experience on this thread.

Of course, she is welcome to post here in either English or Tagalog, whichever she is most comfortable with.

~ Tahoma

[ariesgirl 0]

Bill...

Thank you for posting this thread. You have brought to light what appears to be a dark side of the visa process.

At this point, what needs to be included in this story is Mercy's voice.

I believe that there are some Visa Journey members who could potentially benefit from hearing about Mercy's experience in her own words.

I am willing to pay for Mercy's taxi fare, and her fees at the local internet cafe, in order for he to be able to post her first-hand experience on this thread.

Of course, she is welcome to post here in either English or Tagalog, whichever she is most comfortable with.

~ Tahoma

I just want to share an insight on hows the interview being done at the fraud unit. ( this is my update on my thread http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...182021&st=0 )

I had my interview the other day at the fraud unit ( the continuation of my march 12 interview), i brought with me the 600 pages chats, All the emails i sent and i received from husband (because my interviewer said the 20-30 pages emails i submitted initially are not enough) , 300 additional photos, and my government remittances like SSS, health insurance, mutual fund, taxes certified by my employer showing I updated my name to my married name. I had 6 hours interview where my interviewer asked every details about my husband, his job, how he earns his income, his properties, information about his previous marriage - the full name of ex wife, the age, job, how long the marriage last, reason of divorce, who filed the divorce, when the divorce was filed, the name of the kids, age, bday. Also all the details about our relationship, where and when did we meet, what was the first conversation, who started the conversation, how my husband courted me, when we started to have a relationship, when was our first meeting, who initiated the visits, when he said that he wanted to visit me, when he said he wanted to marry me and how things were being said. Who organized the marriage, where is the honeymoon, during his stay here, the places we visited, the date, the reason, the name of the person we visited. In our case we purchased properties, so the proof of the purchase, who initiated the purchase, the reason of the purchase and how things were being said. I was also asked, "If ever your petitioner is not American will you still marry him?", "If ever your petitioner wants to live in the Philippines and no plans of petitioning you, will you still marry him?" , "Did you marry your husband to work in the US?" the last question was "What do you want to say?, anything you want to say.

If your case is forwarded to fraud unit, you should know every small details about your fiancee/husband and also about your relationship. You cannot hide anything, it is not just a simple question and answer, they will find another questions from the given answers, and you should have documents to support your answers. During the interview they will know if you are hiding something or if you are not telling the truth. And they also conduct background investigation to support their findings. They are trying to protect both sides. They are trying to know if there is love involved in the relationship. They will also try to discourage you to continue the application but you have to overcome the pressure and stand out for your relationship. My interviewer said there are some cases that applicants really withdraw their application.

(thank you for reading, just wanna share this experienced )

[sweetFM 0]

Bill...

Thank you for posting this thread. You have brought to light what appears to be a dark side of the visa process.

At this point, what needs to be included in this story is Mercy's voice.

I believe that there are some Visa Journey members who could potentially benefit from hearing about Mercy's experience in her own words.

I am willing to pay for Mercy's taxi fare, and her fees at the local internet cafe, in order for he to be able to post her first-hand experience on this thread.

Of course, she is welcome to post here in either English or Tagalog, whichever she is most comfortable with.

~ Tahoma

I just want to share an insight on hows the interview being done at the fraud unit. ( this is my update on my thread http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...182021&st=0 )

I had my interview the other day at the fraud unit ( the continuation of my march 12 interview), i brought with me the 600 pages chats, All the emails i sent and i received from husband (because my interviewer said the 20-30 pages emails i submitted initially are not enough) , 300 additional photos, and my government remittances like SSS, health insurance, mutual fund, taxes certified by my employer showing I updated my name to my married name. I had 6 hours interview where my interviewer asked every details about my husband, his job, how he earns his income, his properties, information about his previous marriage - the full name of ex wife, the age, job, how long the marriage last, reason of divorce, who filed the divorce, when the divorce was filed, the name of the kids, age, bday. Also all the details about our relationship, where and when did we meet, what was the first conversation, who started the conversation, how my husband courted me, when we started to have a relationship, when was our first meeting, who initiated the visits, when he said that he wanted to visit me, when he said he wanted to marry me and how things were being said. Who organized the marriage, where is the honeymoon, during his stay here, the places we visited, the date, the reason, the name of the person we visited. In our case we purchased properties, so the proof of the purchase, who initiated the purchase, the reason of the purchase and how things were being said. I was also asked, "If ever your petitioner is not American will you still marry him?", "If ever your petitioner wants to live in the Philippines and no plans of petitioning you, will you still marry him?" , "Did you marry your husband to work in the US?" the last question was "What do you want to say?, anything you want to say.

If your case is forwarded to fraud unit, you should know every small details about your fiancee/husband and also about your relationship. You cannot hide anything, it is not just a simple question and answer, they will find another questions from the given answers, and you should have documents to support your answers. During the interview they will know if you are hiding something or if you are not telling the truth. And they also conduct background investigation to support their findings. They are trying to protect both sides. They are trying to know if there is love involved in the relationship. They will also try to discourage you to continue the application but you have to overcome the pressure and stand out for your relationship. My interviewer said there are some cases that applicants really withdraw their application.

(thank you for reading, just wanna share this experienced )

what are the usual reason that the fiancee will undergo fraud interview?

[MercyandBill 0]

I cannot tell you how happy I was you posted on my thread "ariesgirl". This is the kind of post I was fishing for. In all honesty I should have been the one to find yours. I had to think really hard about what you said. I did not give it much thought at the time. But I am sure it played a factor as to why Mercy and my application got sent to the Fraud Unit. I asked Mercy if they said much about our age difference but she said no but after reading your thread I am more convinced that they were upset about it as well. I am 32 years older then she is.

According to the Statutes they cannot deny you because of age. If push came to shove I could probably come up with the Statute #. I am sure it gives them a lot of grief that they cannot deny because of this. But then the have to come up with something else and the closest thing they can come up with is fraud or the statements are unreliable or misleading and they cannot just say that they are inconsistent they have to prove that you had some ulterior motive or reason to lie. So he would fixate on why he feels you would be unhappy with your husband when you got to the US and so you would divorce him or something like that. Just to say that you came back from your honeymoon on a Thursday and it turned out to be a Friday is not sufficient. So you will know if you are in the brown stuff if they fixate on some aspect in your interview. Unfortunately some of this is up to the interviewer and how he spins it. I would not worry to much about it because they would really have to have overwhelming evidence and you would know it if you were in trouble.

If they cannot come up with anything they have been known to sit on it. This is if they cannot prove anything but they believe something is wrong also. Fortunately the cannot just sit on it they are not allowed to. I do not remember where I read it. There is no Statute on it. But there is a directive and it states that they have to clear up these petitions up in a timely manner and if they don't they will be told to clear these up from the National Visa Center if they take to long . This is why it is absolutely important to contact your elected representative to oversee this process or it might be sat upon unduly. Usually these things take in the months time frame depending on what the Embassy feels that they can get away with.

I believe that as long as what you told interrogator is what you told us you should be getting your Visa soon. They may not be happy with it but I do not think they should be passing judgment on love anyway.

Oh... as far as the previous posters that said that your husband should go to the interrogation with you. Been there done that. They did not want to see me! But it would be good to document that he had been back to see you a lot.

I have a question... Were you at any time asked to withdraw you application or petition and how forceful were they about it?

I will be looking forward to hearing about your approved application.

Best wishes,

Bill and Mercy

[maritoni 3]

I wanted to share some of this with you guys but I do not know if it was just a few bad apples like Charles or what.

i'm sure you're more than willing to point out what i did that was so bad.

Charles is bad apple???

[TexPamp 0]

.....How dare you call my Fiancée a prostitute!!!

This is just mean and nasty. Where does anyone get off saying anything about anybody and placing a label on someone whether or not they maybe or not maybe something or another.

I think it was in bad taste for whoever it was ( I'm not going to look it up or name names) that posted a link to a sexual tourism website. To lump everyone in a particular geographical location as a prostitute.

Maybe the finacée in question went to work there as a waitress there rather in her home province because of the concentration of western tourists who tip better than the average Filipino enabling her to send money home to her family. Also maybe she was motivated to met and marry a western man. Don't we all want to marry the loves of our lives? We can meet our love next door or across an ocean.

I have taken this thread with a certain amount of emotion because I think of my Sweety. She maintained her virtues for 3 years in this horrible place and saved herself for her wedding night. As fate would have it, that man was me with her on her wedding night. Our Visa Journey went smoothly hindered only by our own anxiouness to be reunited and "Bill's" experience is the complete opposite of of our own.

Everyone was helpful and kind to Sweety and I during our experience and I ask the same for Bill and his love. Please provide useful information for the OP and keep your criticism and ridicule to yourselves and if the Mods could please remove the hateful and derogatory posts, I'm sure the OP would appreciate it.

TexPamp

Edited March 28, 2009 by TexPamp

[-B&T- 1]

I didn't know somebody here called the OP's fiancee a prostitute that is too much they didn't know the facts I think that's very insulting and humiliating.

[ariesgirl 0]

I cannot tell you how happy I was you posted on my thread "ariesgirl". This is the kind of post I was fishing for. In all honesty I should have been the one to find yours. I had to think really hard about what you said. I did not give it much thought at the time. But I am sure it played a factor as to why Mercy and my application got sent to the Fraud Unit. I asked Mercy if they said much about our age difference but she said no but after reading your thread I am more convinced that they were upset about it as well. I am 32 years older then she is.

I have a question... Were you at any time asked to withdraw you application or petition and how forceful were they about it?

I will be looking forward to hearing about your approved application.

Best wishes,

Bill and Mercy

They never told me to withdraw directly. My first encounter with the fraud unit was last march 12, my interviewer said why I married a divorced man, i am single, i have a good job, Am I that desperate to go to the US? The interviewer tried to confuse me that this path I am going through is wrong. , My interviewer also told me stories where some applicants withdraw their application after enlightening them that this is not the right path for them, that they deserve something better. So i think its just a part of the interviewer's strategy to encourage indirectly the applicant to withdraw, it depends on the applicant on how they gonna stand out for the relationship and to prove that it is love that made them together more than anything else.

As i have read in some thread, there's what they called redflag, one of those is the big age gap. Of course at first since the consul didn't know the background of the relationship, and they think that there's something to be cleared of or to clarify, they forward the case to the fraud unit, who conducts interview in a very detailed way which takes long hours. The applicant will ask first to answer a 2 pages questionnaire which includes educational background, the name of the parents and siblings and their ages, the work history, the residence since birth, some questions about the relationship, how and where did u meet, if you have engagement ring, and even the home address sketch.

In your case, Mercy signed a withdrawal of application, its her choice. Maybe she didn't able to overcome the pressure of the questioning, since she cannot answer some questions especially she doesn't have enough information about you and that was your good chance also to explain why your income is below the poverty line. As i imagine it, she had hard time during the interview because she didn't know how to answer more of the questions especially about you. And that's how the interviewer makes a conclusion about your relationship.

Just take it positively, maybe its the best time for you to get to know each other very well, to build a good and deep relationship, and to have full disclosures about your past, your present and your future plans, before you decides to get married either here in the Philippines or in abroad.

(this is only how I can explain it based on my experience at fraud unit)

Goodluck!

[Loolie 56]

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=170869

[MercyandBill 0]

Actually I had read that thread before the second interview it helped convince me that I needed to go to the second interview. I had not read it since. It is interesting how similar the experiences were. They really do vilify the petitioner and make up lies to tell the fiancées that their boyfriend is a ###### and do not trust him. Mercy was told that they had proof that I had no intention of marrying her. They very much try to confuse them. I had Mercy promise me that she would come out and get me before she signed anything and they just told her NO! also. I think that she was worried that she was going to be locked up in the jail that they had in the back of the Embassy that night. They also told her that if she signed that she could never again apply for a k-1 or k-3 visa but in 5 years she could apply for a work visa. As compared to never again applying for a visa if she didn't sign. I am not sure how they came up with this. I wish they would have given her any documentation at all when she left as she was so confused that I am not really sure what they said to her. But some things she was very insistent upon.

For those that were wondering, for the year 2007 that I submitted the 1040 that showed only $12k of income. I added it up and I paid well over $100k in various taxes that year. Before I hear all about how can this be... as I said before I have businesses and the 1040 alone is not a good indication of my income or financial situation.

If a guy had a billion dollars in the bank and never had a job in his life should he be barred from bringing his fiancée over because his income was below the poverty line or be denied because he did not even file an income tax return? I think not!

[Matt & Bing 56]

If a guy had a billion dollars in the bank and never had a job in his life should he be barred from bringing his fiancée over because his income was below the poverty line or be denied because he did not even file an income tax return? I think not!

A guy with a billion dollars in the bank would be smart enough to have millions of dollars in interest income, don't you think?

[eros_EX_Plumber 0]

If a guy had a billion dollars in the bank and never had a job in his life should he be barred from bringing his fiancée over because his income was below the poverty line or be denied because he did not even file an income tax return? I think not!

A guy with a billion dollars in the bank would be smart enough to have millions of dollars in interest income, don't you think?

Madoff made billions too....but you all know where HE is now....

I know that this may sound very harsh...but sometime we get to a realization that it not worth it !!!!!!!!!!

Sure, love conquers all and usually do not want give up until you have exhausted every possible way and combination.

But at the end, everything has a limit, you may run out of patience, you may run out of money, you run out of health........

In short, if you have a good business as you say you have and you love her so much....then look for alternatives....

Use you brain and you will come up with some other way....if it mean so much to you....

Edited March 28, 2009 by Eros_the_Plumber