Withdrawal of Application

[Dakine 26]

Does anyone know what this means legally or what can be done about it?

My Fiancée was railroaded into signing a Withdrawal of Application on Feb.10 at her second interview at the Manila Embassy. Four other Fiancées where given the same treatment the same day and all signed the Withdrawal of Applications. All were given the same all day treatment by four separate investigators. This cannot be an isolated incident. They must be doing it to a lot of fiancées. My fiancée signed for completely bogus reasons and did not even read the papers that were given to her She said that she just wanted to get out of there so bad that she would have signed anything so I am not completely sure what she had signed. She is a simple farm girl from Eastern Samar and very sweet. She was to busy bawling when she came out of the interview to make much sense out of what she said.

I am absolutely furious about how they treated her.

Does anyone know what recourse we have and can she Withdraw her Withdrawal. They threatened her with her being investigated and possibly going to jail if they found anything and I asked her what she would go to jail for and she did not really know maybe she thought for filing for a Visa and I asked her where the jail was and she thought maybe it was in the back of the Embassy.

It is not right what they are doing and by what I can tell it is not correct by USCIS Guidelines also.

see;http://www.fletc.gov/training/programs/legal-division/the-informer/research-by-subject/miscellanious/aliencriminalwithoutconviction.pdf

In my fiancées case she committed no violation of the law but because of her kind and gentle nature she was talked into admitting to a crime she did not commit and I think they are doing this to a lot of Filipinos.

It says in the guidelines that an adequate definition of the crime must be explained in understandable terms including all essential elements and an explanation of the crime in understandable terms and neither of these were explained to her. I am not much for getting her off on a technicality when she did nothing wrong and the only ones that did anything wrong was the US Embassy. But it may help the many, many of others that are being railroaded I believe every day.

She had an over zealous interrogator that just wanted to get admissions no matter what it took.

If you have advice for us or you want to tell us of your experiences with the second interview. Or if your Fiancée got railroaded also please post it here. I have been doing a lot of research on this subject and I have found some interesting case law on the subject and I would like to hear your responses.

"In my fiancées case she committed no violation of the law but because of her kind and gentle nature she was talked into admitting to a crime she did not commit and I think they are doing this to a lot of Filipinos.

What was the reason they picked her among 100s of others? NBI record?. They don't just do a eanie, meani, minie, moe!

Sure don't sound right!

"Actually I did go to the Embassy. I was there when the interview took place and they would not even talk to me. I went to my Senators office when I got back and was told by an aid that he would not get involved. I think it was just a stupid aid and I will not stop trying to get their attention. This is just the start.

That's BS. Go to your other senator.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Haole

[-B&T- 1]

Your fiancee should have been patient and read the papers that was given to her before signing anything.Who interviewed her anyway?American or Filipino?I have heard that some Filipinos working at the US embassy were more difficult to deal with than the Americans or could be that there's a misunderstanding between your fiancee and the person who interviewed her.If that is the case the other option is to marry her in the Philippines and take the CR1 route or spousal visa.Good luck to both of you..

[Loolie 56]

Your fiancee should have been patient and read the papers that was given to her before signing anything.Who interviewed her anyway?American or Filipino?I have heard that some Filipinos working at the US embassy were more difficult to deal with than the Americans or could be that there's a misunderstanding between your fiancee and the person who interviewed her.If that is the case the other option is to marry her in the Philippines and take the CR1 route or spousal visa.Good luck to both of you..

actually, they will let you read first the papers and after reading it...making sure theres no mistake or you understand it...they will tell you to sign it.

i guess she just didnt remember or understand what shes been going through that time...thats it.

[MercyandBill 0]

"What was the reason they picked her among 100s of others? NBI record?. They don't just do a eanie, meani, minie, moe!

Sure don't sound right! "

ok sounds fair let me elaborate:

Mercy went for her first interview on Jan. 14th. the American lady interviewer asked her about my income, I own many businesses with many employees. My financial statements are 37 pages and the pre-screener pulled only my 1040 out of all the papers and gave them to her and she said that I did not have enough income and how come these income tax forms were only 2007. It went down hill from there.

The fact that my 1040 does not show a lot of income for 2007 is because I had a lot of deductions for that year. I had just recently put up two new commercial buildings and had a lot of deductions. Looking at the 1040 alone is not a good representation of my income or wealth and as for the 2007 income tax it was only Jan. 14th. "give me a break!" I do not know when she does her taxes. They need better employees in these Embassys.

She was unhappy that we had only one picture of us together, how come I had not come back to visit her again, why had I not given her a engagement ring yet, she asked about my previous marriages and Mercy was not very forceful in her answers and I had not told her much about them, the lady was probably having a bad hair day and sent it to the Fraud Unit. She was also probably upset about our age difference. Who knows.

I did not go into to much detail of my previous relationships and marriages with Mercy as it is not usually a good idea to go into these to soon in a relationship and besides it is not very romantic. If she had asked I would not have lied to her but I certainly wasn't going to volunteer the information to early and if the Embassy wanted to know anything about them they should ask me not her! That is also true for my income if the have questions about it they should ask me not her! I do not completely understand my financial statements myself that is what I have accounts for, to explain it to me.

This goes to show that it is important to document as much as possible including going way overboard on the documentation to avoid being sent to the Fraud Unit and that still cannot protect you from an incompetent case worker that cannot read a Financial Statement.

I went to Visa Journey and did some reading and found out that going to an second interview was was the same as being sent to Fraud Unit and I got really scared and immediately flew out for the second interview. There was a big misunderstanding and I was going to clear it up. I arrived a week early and I met the parents, saw where she grew up, took lots of pictures, gave her the engagement ring that I had bought months before, took pictures of that. I wanted to make sure I had all the objections were covered. I had my CPA's and Accountants work overtime to get my 2008 financials done early to bring them to the interview also. I printed out 600 pages of Yahoo txt's of us txt'ing every night in 8pt. and brought that also. This time I had overkill.

As I sat with the US Lawyer on the bench outside the interrogation unit he said that they do not like it when the petitioner shows up, that they are not looking for me to answer the problems they have with the petition. That means that they will have to look that much harder to find something to deny for.

I was surprised that they would not let me go into the interview when we got there so I gave mercy the large bag with all the documentation in it and told her if they had any questions about my financial situation or about my previous relationships that I was just outside and they could come and get me. She repeatedly told them that I was outside and they should ask me and they kept harassing her about the other relationships and finally he said to her that she was under investigation not me "whatever that means" and he was not going to come out and get me. That is probably because he knew that I would not stand for his nonsense and I would have stood up to him. He never did come out and get me but I was there all day!!!

[Loolie 56]

its true they are not investigating the petitioner...they asked about your past relationships or income because as a fiancee he or she should know information about the petitioner...about the petitioner's past ex wives, relatives, school were he studied...etc etc...stuff like that..

well all you need is clarify if your fiancee really signed withdrawal of application and if she didnt then just wait till the investigation is over and submit additional documents if they will ask...thats all.

God bless you so much.

Edited March 22, 2009 by bmtrrbt

[sj5 4]

I had good experience with USEM employees. My CO asked me brief questions like how many times he visit you? How many days he stay with you when he come over? How often you communicate with your fiance? And so on. In fact, I was unable to answer couple of details about my fiance(now my husband). Anyway, after my crossed examine, the CO said, "Everything is fine. Congratulations.Blah blah pay your visa delivery at Window ##." They didn't interrogated me so I don't know what to say about this. I did seen some Filipinas got disappointed because of their white slip. I think, you need lawyer or congressman in your state for this visa battle.

Edited March 22, 2009 by sj5

[MercyandBill 0]

no,... I am certain that is what she signed and she is to but what else she signed we do not know. She said that they had all the girls together at the end of the day as they were finishing up with the paperwork and the girls were discussing their situations. She said that all the girls signed their withdrawals. They also had told them that they would be able to apply for a work Visa again in 5 years but never again for a k-1 or k-3 visa "which is nonsense" and if they did not sign they would be barred for life for ever applying for a visa to the US. That part is correct but very little else they did was correct.

[SJ1819 2]

Your beneficiary should know everything about you, that is the reason why there is an interview with the American Consular Officer. They conduct interview even though you gave all hard copy of your relationship (picture, letters, e-mails, cards, packages, etc.) just for them to make sure your beneficiary knows you well and if the relationship is true, *ehem* because sad to say in reality, there are girls out there who use this process just to get to US and dig gold, which isn't cool at all.

Ask your beneficiary if she really signed to withdraw your application. She SHOULD have read it before she signed. If she did not understand anything on it, they will explain it to her BEFORE signing it. But like you said, she is a simple farm girl, probably she did not understand anything about it and just signed and on her interview she was misunderstood by the interviewer. Sometimes poor english skills of a beneficiary & big age difference leads to more investigation and/or denial or not approved.

I do not know what else to say, I had good experience and treatment with the US Embassy Manila's employees and the CO who interviewed me. Good luck to your visa journey.

[JoenKate 0]

From your statement it is obvious that she went into her interview woefully un-prepared. She didn't meet the burden of proof that would show you and her have a solid ongoing relationship.

That's why they sent her to the fraud unit.

As your fiance' she should have complete knowledge of you and your life. At interview time she needs to be able to answer any question about the relationship without hesitation.

One thing though, I am surprised that even with many deductions on your income tax return that you didn't meet the 125% above the poverty line requirements for the affidavit of support.

[tallcoolone 102]

Sounds like a Fvcked Up situation

By signing a paper of withdrawl she may of sealed her fate

Your attorney should know, If not hire a better attorney.

I agree it is possible for her to be railroaded by a over zealous CO.

I think you should of had full disclosure with your Fiance of your past relationships, Of course that probably gonna come up during CO Interview...

[swmbob 0]

....The charge that they tried to make stick was prostitution..... They were fishing very hard in the interview and if they didn't come up with this they would have pinned something else on her....

In the application, what is her current occupation and past work history. Where is her current residence and past residency? Did you review her NBI?

Something here, had to raise suspicion for the interviewer to pursue further questioning.

Additionally, it has been stated here many times, petitioners should prep thier beneficiaries for the interview and provide the personal information, i.e. prior marriages, any children, occupation, mother's name etc..

As you stated, you did not prepare her for the personal questions nor did you review with her, the documents provided which were wholefully inadequate.

Therefore she lacked confidence during questioning. Your girl's response or lack thereof to the above, forced the second interview.

There is something in her background or in your relationship that the second interview confirmed the application is not truthfull. Did they even look at or consider the additional documents you provided?

IMO and as harsh as it may sound, bringing her to the US is not going to happen even if you marry her there and apply for a CR1/K3.

[DEDixon 39]

Everything you did after she was in trouble is what you should have done before she was in trouble.

One picture? Not good.

No information about past relationships? Not good.

No detailed information about your life/family? Not good.

Seemingly just one visit to meet her? Not good.

No engagement ring. Not good.

Big age difference.... Not good.

Any one or even two of these "not goods" are okay alone, but when they add up, it means trouble.

As you said, "This time I had overkill." It was too late, you should have did all that in the beginning. "Fiancee" is about having a RELATIONSHIP with someone, a relationship that should grow from day one into a very deep relationship. Bona fide relationship PRIOR to the first interview is what they expect and this is why they didn't want to talk to you at the second interview.

I personally know someone who showed up at the second interview just as you did, this happens only about 11 months ago, he wasn't invited to talk to the CO either.

[MercyandBill 0]

I know that not sharing my information is a problem for the Embassy. But they have to understand my situation that is I have a lot of money and I did not necessarily go into that with my Fiancée. For obvious reasons. I do not want a gold digger. But I think she already knows. I have to many offices and to many phone numbers for her not to wonder. I did not think that she would understand the financial statements and that did not worry me but I did expect the Embassy to. As far as deductions I did not mean normal deductions like dependents and interest deductions and things. I file a joint return with my real estate company because it is a LLC and I had a lot of vacancies that year and my other companies floated me. But my assets are in the millions and the other companies made plenty of money that year if they bothered to look.

As far as her occupation she was a waitress in a restaurant when I met her and I was looking into the history on the Bataan Death March from WWII. My Great Uncle died on the death march and is buried in Manila. A lot of soldiers from New Mexico died on that march because the New Mexico Nation Guard was there at the start of the war. I have since posted information on Wikipedia.org about the Battling Bastards of Bataan Memorial at Camp O'Donnel. I met her while I was there in a restaurant. I did not expect to get into a relationship but she got me to get on-line with Yahoo which I had not done before and before I knew it we were spending hours and hours each night on-line. If you do not call that a relationship I do not know what is. We spend more time conversing each day then most married people. As far as what she is doing now she is enrolling in College in Tacloban and taking Computer Science.

I think that you are right that once she signed she was screwed. I am contemplating what to do next. I was wondering a little what the rest of you thought. My lawyer wants me to accept the Prostitution charge and ask for a waiver. He says that, that might take 5 years and it still could be denied if they think she hasn't sufficiently reformed herself. We will be getting married this fall between semesters and we are planning to start a family.

I still want to sue the US Govt. in Federal Court in Guam. I am sure we could win but all we could do is sue for them some procedural infraction and then it would be sent back to the Embassy for them to dream up something else. Something that is harder or murkier to fight like my income or moral turpitude or maybe even the age difference. That is why my lawyer does not want me to fight it. But I am absolutely offended that they labeled my fiancée a prostitute.

In the interview they found the Pre-nuptial agreement my lawyer had written for me and it had notes for me for further clarification. It was in the briefcase and I forgot it was there. They used it to attack me and say that I was not a good person with her and she should only trust them. They also did not give the agreement back at the end of the interview.

If she is just after my money isn't that my choice to make not the Embassy's! Or maybe they can decide that not just that a person makes to little to have their petition approved but there will be an upper limit as well?

[MercyandBill 0]

Yes.. she lacked confidence that is her nature. Is that to say that only confident people should be let into the US. She is not a dummy and I would not want to change anything about her.

She was prepared with everything she needed to be prepared for and they should not have put her through what she was put through for a misunderstanding. We should have been given a chance to clear up the misunderstanding but what they did was go on a witch hunt instead. I think that we addressed most all of the concerns as she said that they really did not ask any more questions about my financial statements and did not even want to see the 600 page book of Yahoo correspondence. They mostly fixated about her past boyfriends all three of them. But they did not go into our relationship much. I am not sure why. They did ask much about her previous relationships and mine as well. Maybe they thought I was a prostitute.

If you look at the Statute: INS 212(a)(2)(d) applicants are inadmissible if they engage in prostitution and if you look at the definition of prostitution it is defined by they the State Dept. which is how it must be judged as in Kepilino vs. Alberto Gonzales circa. 2006. It is defined by statute by the US State Dept. in 22 C.F.R. 40.24(B) as... Prostitution defined: The Term "prostitution" means engaging in promiscuous sexual intercourse for hire. A finding that an alien has "engaged" in prostitution must be based on elements of continuity and regularity indicating a pattern of behavior or deliberate course of conduct entered into primarily for financial gain or for other considerations of material value as distinguished from the commission of casual or isolated acts.

Does her first boyfriend which she lived with for a year constitute the pattern of continuity and regularity. Or is it the two other guys she had one night stands with before she met me constitute she was only interested in foreigners and that upset the Filipino interviewer. Or maybe it was that I gave her all my left over peso's as I left the Philippines that constituted a clear pattern of behavior and I wonder how they classify the money I sent her over the last year. I am not sure but it certainly is unfair!!!

Unfortunately a number of the statutes are on purpose vague and can be used to the discretion of the investigators and if he is having a bad hair day you are screwed. The prostitution charge is very specific and she clearly did not meet it so I am very confident that I can fight it and win but it will take years and I am worried about retaliation on the part of the Embassy or USCIS and then they might get into one of those vague areas.

[Matt & Bing 56]

One thing though, I am surprised that even with many deductions on your income tax return that you didn't meet the 125% above the poverty line requirements for the affidavit of support.

Yes, very true. Your deductions are irrelevant to your income used to meet the poverty level. They look at your income such as gross wages per your W-2. The statement about a lot of deductions is really meaningless. You could have tax deductions more than your gross income and if your gross income was high enough you would still qualify.