Since when

[pushbrk 12,898]

I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######.

On the surface, that sounds like a good solution. However, there's a wealth of anecdotal knowledge that would go to waste under such a system, I dare say, much of it your own.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

The problem as I see it is related to the fact that individuals that are prolific posters (and that post count can be acquired in "rah, rah" threads opf no consequence) acquire stats under their member name that suggest longevity and that quite possibly could also falsely indicate to new members that they "just might know a little more than others".

The "heart" system needs to go. It just does.

HEAR HEAR

to both of the above posts

mox speaks more sense than many (most?)... I say mox for moderator

and I am one of those who has largely quit VJ, not because my life has moved on or I no longer have a use for the information or the social aspect, but simply because you have to wade through so much dross (at best) these days to get anywhere... the inmates are running the asylum, for the most part, and I have better things to do with my time

now, I'm not an immigration expert, so I'm not really much of a loss, but I fully agree with some of the earlier posts that said that VJ has lost some really valuable people for similar reasons to mine... and I know, because some of them have told me

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I certainly do not think I will ever enable the member rating system as that can become a popularity contest. The heart hings is just a post pip system and nearly every forum I have ever posted on has them. I hope that it is not anything new to anyone.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######.

On the surface, that sounds like a good solution. However, there's a wealth of anecdotal knowledge that would go to waste under such a system, I dare say, much of it your own.

Well, would you rest your case on that "wealth" of knowledge? Does it have an intrinsic value, if it is merely a casual observation? And I will overlook your "dig" for the sake of permitting what I deem a valuable exercise to continue without interruption or closing yet another thread.

Edited March 22, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[pushbrk 12,898]

I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######.

On the surface, that sounds like a good solution. However, there's a wealth of anecdotal knowledge that would go to waste under such a system, I dare say, much of it your own.

Well, would you rest your case on that "wealth" of knowledge? Does it have an intrinsic value, if it is merely a casual observation? And I will overlook your "dig" for the sake of permitting what I deem a valuable exercise to continue without interruption or closing yet another thread.

It's a compliment. I don't want to handicap anybody by requiring citations, you included.

[mox 298]

The heart hings is just a post pip system and nearly every forum I have ever posted on has them. I hope that it is not anything new to anyone.

Other forums have very different "missions" than VJ. For hobbyist, gaming, and many other types of forums, a post-count system makes sense because the purpose of the forum is overwhelmingly social. VJ, on the other hand, is about a process. The heart system doesn't make sense for two reasons: 1) it gives the false impression that someone with a lot of hearts is more of an expert than someone with fewer hearts, and 2) it gives some individuals incentive to post only for the sake of increasing their heart count, cluttering threads with inane and topic-off-dragging conversation.

On VJ, the heart system is more than just a pip. If this were a World of Warcraft or 4x4 site, then yeah, it wouldn't be a big deal at all. But it works against VJ.

[no name 1]

Hearts, amongst other things, need to go.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######.

On the surface, that sounds like a good solution. However, there's a wealth of anecdotal knowledge that would go to waste under such a system, I dare say, much of it your own.

Well, would you rest your case on that "wealth" of knowledge? Does it have an intrinsic value, if it is merely a casual observation? And I will overlook your "dig" for the sake of permitting what I deem a valuable exercise to continue without interruption or closing yet another thread.

It's a compliment. I don't want to handicap anybody by requiring citations, you included.

So this will be an occasion where I am lucky to have some back story on this. Push, obviously this is a jab at a previous statement by Diad in another thread. I think we both know when and where. This is the exact type of personal prodding that I think needs to stop.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######.

On the surface, that sounds like a good solution. However, there's a wealth of anecdotal knowledge that would go to waste under such a system, I dare say, much of it your own.

Well, would you rest your case on that "wealth" of knowledge? Does it have an intrinsic value, if it is merely a casual observation? And I will overlook your "dig" for the sake of permitting what I deem a valuable exercise to continue without interruption or closing yet another thread.

It's a compliment. I don't want to handicap anybody by requiring citations, you included.

Well, I certainly wouldn't feel handicapped if I were to have to back up what I say, and quite honestly, I think I am much more inclined to post links to information than not, although you are indeed entitled to your own opinion on that. Of course, the simplest way to handle a situation like the one that precipitated this thread, is to concede, if one is aware that one is only offering anecdotal information, when stacked up against someone who might have more factual offerings!

Edited March 22, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[StillThePrettiest 3]

it gives some individuals incentive to post only for the sake of increasing their heart count, cluttering threads with inane and topic-off-dragging conversation.

THIS

can we do a trial where hearts disappear for a time? I could almost guarantee we'd see an immediate reduction in inanity

[rebeccajo 14]

it gives some individuals incentive to post only for the sake of increasing their heart count, cluttering threads with inane and topic-off-dragging conversation.

THIS

can we do a trial where hearts disappear for a time? I could almost guarantee we'd see an immediate reduction in inanity

It's been suggested dozens of times that posts from Off Topic not increase the heart tabulation.

There are probably other forums this might work in as well.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

A very quick thing I just did to address this (in some part) is that the hearts now all hyperlink to:

http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/...ey_Member_Ranks

I get the Q on what they mean sometimes... now people will simply need to click on them to get the list.

[bakofoil 27]

The problem as I see it is related to the fact that individuals that are prolific posters (and that post count can be acquired in "rah, rah" threads opf no consequence) acquire stats under their member name that suggest longevity and that quite possibly could also falsely indicate to new members that they "just might know a little more than others". That is not always the case. I say that in order to keep the site a place for "INFORMation" when a discussion quite clearly involves a differing of opinion, then quality citations should be posted to demonstrate that the opinion being offered is substantiated. If one can't post a citation, then they should be told to ####### off and stop spewing #######. Shutting down the thread only serves one purpose.....the answer is never known, and the OP does not get the service s/he deserves.

I absolutely agree with you on all counts. As long as the thread stays open those unable to substantiate their opinion will become obvious.

[MrsCat 6]

Of course, the simplest way to handle a situation like the one that precipitated this thread, is to concede, if one is aware that one is only offering anecdotal information, when stacked up against someone who might have more factual offerings!

Agreed.

Additionally, if one is so concerned that the OP's question hasn't been fully answered or correctly answered, than simply PMing them the information that you feel is correct and that which supports your position is probably best. Continuing to retort simply obfuscates the issues. While generally entertaining, the back-and-forth is rarely helpful.

While a PM may be the antithesis of the purpose of this forum, I have seen plenty of parties here claim their sole goal is to help the OP. And if that's the case once a disagreement breaks out, then so be it. Everyone else will be at the loss. But at least the OPs question has been answered.

Though, I do think that a minority on here are around for their own ego, and would rather argue in public for the rest of the population to catch a glimpse of their greatness.

[MrsCat 6]

A very quick thing I just did to address this (in some part) is that the hearts now all hyperlink to:

http://www.visajourney.com/wiki/index.php/...ey_Member_Ranks

I get the Q on what they mean sometimes... now people will simply need to click on them to get the list.

Captain, I would recommend the wording "The number of "blue blocks" and "hearts" in a Member's profile simply correlates directly to their post count and Member Rank. It is not an indication of anything beyond this" be changed to something more explicit.

ie: It is not an indication of their immigration knowledge or expertise.

Just my opinion.