221(g) "not clearly eligible"

[Anh map 2,098]

What exactly did the white/blue (typical colors for these sheets) paper say? Can you post it here for all to read? That will help to get better feedback.

What are the "weak" spots in your story that would cause a CO to question the bona fides of your relationship?

[Goober 0]

Does anyone have any experience with having their K-1 returned by the embassy to DHS/USCIS for vague reasons like "not clearly eligible" under 221(g)? We showed up for what were told would be an interview with the consul (following our interview last month, after which we were told 'administrative processing' was required), but instead of an interview, we were given a piece of paper saying our case was being sent back under 221(g). They do NOT want any documents; I think they just want to deny our application. (During the interview last month, the vice consul remarked "I've seen lots of older men with younger women but I've never seen an older woman with a younger man". I am three years and 1 month older than my fiance. Also she refused to literally accept our evidence of ongoing relationship; we had photos from multiple visits, letters, emails, chat transcripts, phone bills.) If I understand correctly, our application could die a slow death waiting to be processed, in which case we'll never have a chance to present evidence to a rational human. I tried emailing the consul to ask her to take a look at our file before the diplomatic pouch is picked up but she only responds that I should contact DHS/USCIS. Some friends say I need a lawyer to fight this, others say a lawyer can't help, all we can do is wait. For possibly 2 years. Please, if you have any experience with this, please give an idea of what I should be doing.

Don't dispair - Maybe this helps - I looked up 221(g) on the internet and got this (sorry you need to go to the link and scroll down until you find the term 221(g).

Go here - http://www.***removed***/visas/refusal.html

It says that you are missing some document or piece of information.

(1) Do you have a checklist of forms needed/required and can you check your copy against that and see if you are missing something?

(2) If not is it possible that the embassy lost one (or more) of your forms?

(3) Can you find out what is missing?

(4) Can you get them a copy or supply the missing information?

I'm sure your small age difference cannot be an issue. It must be some form that is missing or that the need further information on one aspect.

Good luck!

[NatashaW 0]

How can they refuse based on your age difference? That really scares me. I am 9 years older than my fiance. He is Canadian and I am pretty sure that they are not given to ageism or stereotypes like what you are experiencing, but if it happened to you it could happen to any one!

3 years is nothing. Love is not about age. Age is just a number. You should fight this. It's outrageous!

Arabella,

Please don't assume that age is the real reason they are denying our visa. And don't let this comment from our interview worry you about your situation. My personal theory is that this embassy (very far away from Canada) looks for any reason to deny and that once I find out the official reason (after I file a request under FOIA), it's going to be something vague like we just don't seem like a real couple and age will be among the many factors cited. (What the others might be, I haven't a clue.) So don't worry about your case (on this issue). Thank you for your words of support.

NatashaW

[NatashaW 0]

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

[Anh map 2,098]

They are all form letters. Yet each white /blue slip has information specific to the denial.

Posting the letter here or you typing exactly what it says will help to get better feedback from folks here on VJ. Just black out the name/case number on the copy uploaded.

[NatashaW 0]

Does anyone have any experience with having their K-1 returned by the embassy to DHS/USCIS for vague reasons like "not clearly eligible" under 221(g)? We showed up for what were told would be an interview with the consul (following our interview last month, after which we were told 'administrative processing' was required), but instead of an interview, we were given a piece of paper saying our case was being sent back under 221(g). They do NOT want any documents; I think they just want to deny our application. (During the interview last month, the vice consul remarked "I've seen lots of older men with younger women but I've never seen an older woman with a younger man". I am three years and 1 month older than my fiance. Also she refused to literally accept our evidence of ongoing relationship; we had photos from multiple visits, letters, emails, chat transcripts, phone bills.) If I understand correctly, our application could die a slow death waiting to be processed, in which case we'll never have a chance to present evidence to a rational human. I tried emailing the consul to ask her to take a look at our file before the diplomatic pouch is picked up but she only responds that I should contact DHS/USCIS. Some friends say I need a lawyer to fight this, others say a lawyer can't help, all we can do is wait. For possibly 2 years. Please, if you have any experience with this, please give an idea of what I should be doing.

Don't dispair - Maybe this helps - I looked up 221(g) on the internet and got this (sorry you need to go to the link and scroll down until you find the term 221(g).

Go here - http://www.***removed***/visas/refusal.html

It says that you are missing some document or piece of information.

(1) Do you have a checklist of forms needed/required and can you check your copy against that and see if you are missing something?

(2) If not is it possible that the embassy lost one (or more) of your forms?

(3) Can you find out what is missing?

(4) Can you get them a copy or supply the missing information?

I'm sure your small age difference cannot be an issue. It must be some form that is missing or that the need further information on one aspect.

Good luck!

I WISH you were right; we have documentation for everything, including things they asked for in their instructions but didn't accept at the interview. However, the form letter we were given last week had many boxes for lacking documentation. However, the only non-document box on the form was checked for us: being returned for being found "not clearly eligible". We have copies of everything submitted and of those offered but not accepted. I'll be making another copy for our soon-to-be lawyer.

Thank you for trying, though.

[NatashaW 0]

They are all form letters. Yet each white /blue slip has information specific to the denial.

Posting the letter here or you typing exactly what it says will help to get better feedback from folks here on VJ. Just black out the name/case number on the copy uploaded.

The first form letter we got at our first interview in February. Blue sheet. highlights: "Your Immigrant visa case will be reconsidered when you submit the following documents listed below: ..... MISC: Administrative processing has to be conducted by the Embassy." This was given to us after the vice consul (who was interviewing us) said, at the end of the interview, "something doesn't feel right here. I'm going to have to investigate further."

Two weeks ago, my fiance got a phone call from the embassy saying he should come in the following week for an interview with the Consul. I flew there to be with him for that one as well. When we arrived, however, we were given a white sheet by the same vice consul (no explanation re lack of interview with Consul), highlights:

"Dear Visa Applicant, This office regrets to inform you that it is unable to issue a visa to you because you have been found ineligible to receive a visa under the following sections of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The information contained in the paragraphs marked X pertain to your visa application. Please disregard the unmarked paragraphs. ... X: Section 221(g) which prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone whose application does not comply with the provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act or regulations issued pursuant thereto. The following remarks apply in your case: Case is not clearly approvable. Sending petition back the the Dept. of Homeland Security for review."

If the above info helps anyone figure this out, I'd appreciate any and all guidance and suggestions.

NatashaW

[steveee 0]

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

Case Number: MNL2008XXXXX

Petitioner: name & birth date

Beneficiary: name & birth date

Phone: XXXXXXXXXXX

Reference: appeal for K-3 visa refused (attention supervisor)

Dear sir/madam,

(Explain what happen to your case)

Sincerely yours,

Name:

Address:

email address:

[NatashaW 0]

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

Case Number: MNL2008XXXXX

Petitioner: name & birth date

Beneficiary: name & birth date

Phone: XXXXXXXXXXX

Reference: appeal for K-3 visa refused (attention supervisor)

Dear sir/madam,

(Explain what happen to your case)

Sincerely yours,

Name:

Address:

email address:

Thanks, Steveee!

[Arabella 4]

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

I'm sorry I re-read your post, but I am not sure if you concluded that it IS or IS NOT because of the age difference?

[NatashaW 0]

What else, besides "not clearly eligible" does your 221g refusal say? Reverse age difference is not a valid refusal to issue the K-1....and the consul is not allowed to re-adjudicate the initial I129F, which is where the eligibility question was dealt with. So since they aren't allowed to refuse based on reverse age-difference prejudices, they have to refuse for a 'valid' reason...therefore taht 'not clearly eligible' bs. Find out what they mean, what ineligibility?

You need to immediately contact the consulate (e-mail, or phone) and make sure the case stays at the consulate and not sent back. Ask for an explanation of what is the 'ineligibility'? Its good that you contacted your senator....perhaps a call to the NVC may give you more information as to the what the ineligibility finding is.

-P

It doesn't say anything. Just "not clearly eligible". A friend recommended I file a request to see the vice-consul's report under the Freedom of Information Act; I'll do that after the Senator and Congressman have tried their best to get the consul to take it out of diplomatic pouch. When I email, they don't answer questions, they just refer me to USCIS.

A FOIA request is for after the file has been returned stateside...and it can take weeks, and may not give you any further information that what you have in front of you. Not to harp on details, but go back and search your mind for anything that was said during the initial interview and now this second one....said by both your fiance, you (if you were there) and by the CO. As I said before,....age-discrimination is not a valid reason, so if that is the case and they want to refuse you they must write a valid reason for the refusal. NOW, an eligibility issue is valid...but must be stated....what is the ineligibility.

When did the interview (this second one occur)? Have you contacted both your Sendator and congressman?

What worries me, is if they're refering you to USCIS, it means they've already diplomatic pouched the file back to the US. Have you tried contacting the NVC....they may be able to offer more insignt into this ineligibility that is quoted on your 221g.

The 221g notice was just given to us last week; do you think the NVC would have any info already?

I've contacted my senator and an aide promised to call yesterday but called in sick to work. I'll be calling her today. I visited a congressman yesterday, but his aide told me that it's "illegal" for them to "interfere" with the official process and they don't make international calls unless it's a life or death situation. Fortunately, after I stopped crying, I realized that I was speaking to the wrong congressman (I live on the border of districts and have never had to contact a congressman before). So, today I'll be calling lawyers, my senator AND introducing myself to my actual congressman (or, more likely, one of his aides).

There was no clear statement of the basis of their decision. Just a form letter saying the application has been found "not clearly eligible".

They are referring me to USCIS, I'm convinced, not because the diplomatic pouch system is so efficient and our case has already left, but because they don't want to deal with me.

Thank you for your time and for thinking this through with me.

NatashaW

Sorry to hear that NatashaW, me too i don't think so that is the main reason its becuase of the age gap im 6 years older than my husband, i was denied for my K-3 also, i'm not giving you an assurance if it helps but just try this, if the CO said that your case was being return to USCIS /NVC send a letter of appeal to this email address NVCInquiry@state.gov this is the format of my letter of appeal, some VJ,s used this too and it works, good luck!!!

Case Number: MNL2008XXXXX

Petitioner: name & birth date

Beneficiary: name & birth date

Phone: XXXXXXXXXXX

Reference: appeal for K-3 visa refused (attention supervisor)

Dear sir/madam,

(Explain what happen to your case)

Sincerely yours,

Name:

Address:

email address:

Thanks, Steveee!

I just sent it off and got an automated response that does not inspire hope:

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS AUTOMATED NOTIFICATION

Please be advised that, as of April 4th, 2008, our office revised our

guidelines for communication between the National Visa Center and the

public. We are now required to verify case specific information each

time we receive an inquiry.

According to U.S. law, the National Visa Center is only permitted to

discuss details of a visa case with authorized representatives and when

provided with all of the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Petitioner's name and date of birth

* Beneficiary's name and date of birth

* Your full name

If you are the legal representative, and your G-28, Notice of Entry of

Appearance as Attorney or Representative, is not on file at the NVC,

please include a copy of your signed G-28 showing that you are the legal

representative as well as the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Petitioner's name and date of birth or Beneficiary's name and

date of birth

* Attorney's law firm name

* Attorney's law firm address

* Your full name

If you are corresponding regarding an I-140 petition you must provide

the following information:

* NVC case number or CIS receipt number

* Name of the petitioning company

* Beneficiary's name and date of birth

* Your full name

If you are the petitioner, principal applicant or legal representative,

please notify the National Visa Center with any changes to your mailing

address, email address or phone numbers.

Please include this required information on all future inquiries

directed to the NVC. If this information has not been submitted with

your inquiry it will be requested.

Please do not respond to this inquiry.

Thank you,

National Visa Center

This email is Sensitive but Unclassified based on the definitions

provided in 12 FAM 540.

Any information in this transmission pertaining to the issuance or

refusal of visas or permits to enter the United States shall be

considered confidential under Section 222(j) of the Immigration and

Nationality Act (INA) [8 US C. Section 1202]. Access to and use of such

information must be solely for the formulation, amendment,

administration, or enforcement of the immigration, nationality, and

other laws of the United States under INA 222(j) and as specified in FAM

guidance. If you have received such information in error, do not review,

retransmit, disclose, disseminate, use, or take any action in reliance

upon this information, and contact the sender as soon as possible.

[Anh map 2,098]

So there were no specific documents requested? You inserted "...." in your response when talking about the blue slip. Nothing else was requested. Just the paragraph addressing "Administrative Processing?" Typically the blue slip asks the petitioner and/or the applicant to submit additional info (in our case it was 2 items: more correspondence and info about my ex-wife) for review.

What Homeland Security issues could there be with you or your fiance? Clearly this has nothing to do with age so don't dwell on that issue. Something set off a red flag.

I ask again, what are the "weak spots" in your love story that would bring questions to the mind of an experienced Consular Officer? He told you at the 1st interview that he didn't "feel right." What could he doubt in the bona fides of your relationship? That is where you ought to focus your attention when attempting to turn this situation around.

[NatashaW 0]

So there were no specific documents requested? You inserted "...." in your response when talking about the blue slip. Nothing else was requested. Just the paragraph addressing "Administrative Processing?" Typically the blue slip asks the petitioner and/or the applicant to submit additional info (in our case it was 2 items: more correspondence and info about my ex-wife) for review.

What Homeland Security issues could there be with you or your fiance? Clearly this has nothing to do with age so don't dwell on that issue. Something set off a red flag.

I ask again, what are the "weak spots" in your love story that would bring questions to the mind of an experienced Consular Officer? He told you at the 1st interview that he didn't "feel right." What could he doubt in the bona fides of your relationship? That is where you ought to focus your attention when attempting to turn this situation around.

No documents were requested. We offered, but they didn't take our evidence of continuing relationship or the local Department of Justice's certificate about my fiance's address history, although it is specifically asked for in the instructions the embassy gave us beforehand.

USCIS is a "child agency" of DHS. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Immigration_Services) The embassy says its forwarding to DHS; I think they mean USCIS (of DHS). Neither of us has any security issues, other than a speeding ticket I got 11 years ago.

I too believe that age is not THE issue/cause but I'm guessing the Vice Consul is adding it to her report as another factor as a reason to deny, since she thinks our relationship is fake (I'm guessing).

Other than the vice consul refusing to accept our evidence and making a wacko comment about our three-year age difference, the only other possible weak spot is that she didn't allow us to explain her perceived discrepancy in our answers to one question ( I said we were introduced by Americans, my fiance said we were introduced to each other by a Georgian. In fact, the Georgian and the Americans got together to play matchmaker for us and encourage us to at least meet each other. The vice consul claimed she didn't understand our answer but then moved on to the next question without a follow-up question.)

Having said that, I'm not sure how to fight things at this point. Other than wait for a letter from DHS/USCIS/ NVC, and respond immediately with whatever info they ask for, if our application doesn't expire in the meantime.

[Anh map 2,098]

Differing answers to the "how you met" question has tripped up folks at many different embassies/consulates. Did you have a short "courtship before filing the K1?" That can be a flag as well.

[NatashaW 0]

Differing answers to the "how you met" question has tripped up folks at many different embassies/consulates. Did you have a short "courtship before filing the K1?" That can be a flag as well.

I don't know. Is 7 months short?