Need help in preparing RFE for extreme cruelty

[Anh map 2,098]

I don't have any experience with an abusive relationship. My thoughts based on the OP's statements here are the same as others: there is no "third party" corroboration of the events/situation outside of family.

I'd suggest that the OP contact an advocacy group and/or an immigration attorney.

[justashooter 430]

do you know that you can have him arrested? (just for threatening you with this)? His parents cannot throw you out of the house. They will need an eviction order.

If the judge won't order them to move out of their house, hey will order them to pay for your living in other place.

i don't know what planet you're from.

[3600rs 24]

My confusion is that I may not have enough documentation to prove the abuse other than the following.

I just need a confirmation or some acknowledgement that this can be enough documentation.

1. pic of the notice they put on the door that she is not welcomed

2. police call log me requesting a domestic escort

3. I am trying to find a psychologiest to evaluate her conditions ( I am not sure if this will be helpful and not sure if I will get a favorable report)

4. affidavits from my sis, me and my wife

I am looking for some other pointers/suggestions regarding what else I should do to make my case strong.

I don't see any extreme cruelty in your write-up. I just see a guy who threw his wife out for whatever reason that was between them.

Rika and alimar have given you some excellent pointers. I agree that cruelty and VAWA may need more evidence. It will definitely qualify for a good faith waiver. An experienced lawyer will give you an exact evaluation. Maybe you can apply in one or more categories, or claim one withdraw it and file another. There are many strategies.

Finally justashooter---- Stop your "I just see..I dont see" BS. We don't care about what you see and what you don't. Please comment on how you can help the posters sister. If you cant see certain things I would recommend lasik surgery, its cheaper in China

Every time you comment its sure like a comedy central.

Well, he is right. There is no cruelty there. They kicked her out of the house due to whatever happened between them and posted a note that she is no longer welcome. I don't see anything illegal about it - it's his parents house, not her or his. Unless there is evidence of physical abuse, forget about it. It's a free country - anyone can call police and complain but it doesn't make it true. While domestic violence is a serious crime, it also requires a serious evidence. There isn't any here.

Not trying to be mean - just giving advice.

I cant disagree with you more. The OP is from India, and typically where the husband and his parents abuse the wife for dowry. The women are submissive and treat their husbands with respect no matter how abusive they are. Divorce, separation, calling the police is seen as a mark of disrespect and shame. The USC spouse was financially weak, stayed with his parents, and was greedy for dowry. The unreasonable dowry demands were not met, the abuse started, and the arranged marriage went downhill. A perfect stereotype of an Indian arranged marriage involving a greedy, lazy, loser, USC without a house, and a submissive, culturally strong Indian lady who could not meet his unreasonable demands.

Sure we don't see any cruelty in what the OP has posted. We have to look beyond normal and read between the lines. Also we have to know more about different traditions worldwide not just the mundane or banal "free" American tradition that we so used to.

We have to hear more from the OP about the causes of the breakup and abuse. The above maybe speculation but again classic Indian Dowry Abuse.

[Family Man 0]

First of all I appreciate comments from all of you.

I did not elaborate on the kind of things that she suffered at her in laws/husband's home.

This is what I mentioned in my original post

"During this time she has suffered a lot emotionally and financially. Her husband never cared about her and never took responsibility. He has been acting as if he is still unmarried."

He has been

- a daily alcohol consumer

- completely irresponsible (financially and also as a husband)

- took insurance for himself but not for her

- never had time for his wife (not even an hour in a day)

- make her sit in the house and serve his parents and him

- took money out of her account and was asking money for him from her

- did not put any effort to teach her driving or to help her get a job

- never involved her in any decision (for e.g quitting the job)

- never took her anywhere... no friends nothing

- neglecting her in everything....

- goes to hang out with his friends in the weekend while his wife stays home without any vehicle

- she was allowed to use vehicle only to go to work

He wanted her just to earn money and take care of the house and parents

Our problem is we dont have any evidence from outsiders because they dont have any friends.

Indian women dont talk bad about their husbands its a social thing ... so she has just been telling this to the family members only. and we thought that he will realize his responsibilities and stop acting like this towards her.

We will document all the above with detailed versions.

If someone does not know what it means being a husband, your options are not many.

Again, I appreciate all of your help.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

Hey, don't get me wrong - i'm in no way defending the husband there. He clearly is an irresponsible and immature dickhead. However, all things stated above still don't qualify as abuse. Bad marriage - yes, unfair treatment -yes, but domestic abuse...hm...i doubt it. At least not with the evidence you got. I wish you luck with the case!

[rika60607 215]

Family Man,

all this amounts to a bad marriage, but not to abuse. Emotional abuse - yes, but that one is hardest to prove.

But if he never hit her and never restricted her freedom (i.e. did not lock her in the house) (physical abuse) and there is no police records and no records of verbal abuse - it would be tough to prove extreme cruelty case.

I am sure that morally it would be the wrong path to take, as I am sure that abuse claims would cause destruction in that man's life.

I think your sister should take the good faith marriage route to remove conditions.

Try to ask the man for a quick divorce and if he says no just to complicate her immigration situation - well, then. Lawyer up and make him pay alimony etc.

He has been

- a daily alcohol consumer

- completely irresponsible (financially and also as a husband)

- took insurance for himself but not for her

- never had time for his wife (not even an hour in a day)

- make her sit in the house and serve his parents and him

- took money out of her account and was asking money for him from her

- did not put any effort to teach her driving or to help her get a job

- never involved her in any decision (for e.g quitting the job)

- never took her anywhere... no friends nothing

- neglecting her in everything....

- goes to hang out with his friends in the weekend while his wife stays home without any vehicle

- she was allowed to use vehicle only to go to work

He wanted her just to earn money and take care of the house and parents

Our problem is we dont have any evidence from outsiders because they dont have any friends.

Indian women dont talk bad about their husbands its a social thing ... so she has just been telling this to the family members only. and we thought that he will realize his responsibilities and stop acting like this towards her.

We will document all the above with detailed versions.

If someone does not know what it means being a husband, your options are not many.

Again, I appreciate all of your help.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

My confusion is that I may not have enough documentation to prove the abuse other than the following.

I just need a confirmation or some acknowledgement that this can be enough documentation.

1. pic of the notice they put on the door that she is not welcomed

2. police call log me requesting a domestic escort

3. I am trying to find a psychologiest to evaluate her conditions ( I am not sure if this will be helpful and not sure if I will get a favorable report)

4. affidavits from my sis, me and my wife

I am looking for some other pointers/suggestions regarding what else I should do to make my case strong.

I don't see any extreme cruelty in your write-up. I just see a guy who threw his wife out for whatever reason that was between them.

Rika and alimar have given you some excellent pointers. I agree that cruelty and VAWA may need more evidence. It will definitely qualify for a good faith waiver. An experienced lawyer will give you an exact evaluation. Maybe you can apply in one or more categories, or claim one withdraw it and file another. There are many strategies.

Finally justashooter---- Stop your "I just see..I dont see" BS. We don't care about what you see and what you don't. Please comment on how you can help the posters sister. If you cant see certain things I would recommend lasik surgery, its cheaper in China

Every time you comment its sure like a comedy central.

Well, he is right. There is no cruelty there. They kicked her out of the house due to whatever happened between them and posted a note that she is no longer welcome. I don't see anything illegal about it - it's his parents house, not her or his. Unless there is evidence of physical abuse, forget about it. It's a free country - anyone can call police and complain but it doesn't make it true. While domestic violence is a serious crime, it also requires a serious evidence. There isn't any here.

Not trying to be mean - just giving advice.

I cant disagree with you more. The OP is from India, and typically where the husband and his parents abuse the wife for dowry. The women are submissive and treat their husbands with respect no matter how abusive they are. Divorce, separation, calling the police is seen as a mark of disrespect and shame. The USC spouse was financially weak, stayed with his parents, and was greedy for dowry. The unreasonable dowry demands were not met, the abuse started, and the arranged marriage went downhill. A perfect stereotype of an Indian arranged marriage involving a greedy, lazy, loser, USC without a house, and a submissive, culturally strong Indian lady who could not meet his unreasonable demands.

Sure we don't see any cruelty in what the OP has posted. We have to look beyond normal and read between the lines. Also we have to know more about different traditions worldwide not just the mundane or banal "free" American tradition that we so used to.

We have to hear more from the OP about the causes of the breakup and abuse. The above maybe speculation but again classic Indian Dowry Abuse.

I agree with that, but i still don't agree that it meets abuse defenition. Do you realize how serious the "domestic abuse" conviction really is? Even if it's a "misdemeanor domestic abuse" and not a "feony DA" it's still a major crime and should not be thrown around to punish every irresponsible man or every husband who ever raised voice speaking to the wife. Nowadays soceity got so sensetive about these thing, it's just ridiculous. You can spank your kid for acting like a jerk and before you know he'll report you for domestic abuse and screw you over for life not even understanding the implications of his actions. And then people are surprised about how out of control kids are nowadays and what kind of unimaginable stuff they do. Well, no big surprise - government doesn't allow parents to parent without getting involved - here is what you get. It's time to get real and make soceity a little less sensetive to unimportant things and start taking care of real problems.

Now half of that is offtopic to the OP, but my point is - get divorced, get your sister away from this guy, but don't make things up when it's not necessary to.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Redneck-NOVA

[3600rs 24]

Hey, don't get me wrong - i'm in no way defending the husband there. He clearly is an irresponsible and immature dickhead. However, all things stated above still don't qualify as abuse. Bad marriage - yes, unfair treatment -yes, but domestic abuse...hm...i doubt it. At least not with the evidence you got. I wish you luck with the case!

A lot of abuse and cruelty is sometimes not seen, its done on an emotional and physiologically platform during the marriage over the years.

Something that will be of help to understand it correctly:

http://www.humanrightsattorney.com/sub/abu...D0D216E1F55EED3

Ok then Mr redneck let us know from you how is abuse defined? BTW I agree with you, the evidence presented by the poster is not sufficient for abuse.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

Hey, don't get me wrong - i'm in no way defending the husband there. He clearly is an irresponsible and immature dickhead. However, all things stated above still don't qualify as abuse. Bad marriage - yes, unfair treatment -yes, but domestic abuse...hm...i doubt it. At least not with the evidence you got. I wish you luck with the case!

A lot of abuse and cruelty is sometimes not seen, its done on an emotional and physiologically platform during the marriage over the years.

Something that will be of help to understand it correctly:

http://www.humanrightsattorney.com/sub/abu...D0D216E1F55EED3

Ok then Mr redneck let us know from you how is abuse defined? BTW I agree with you, the evidence presented by the poster is not sufficient for abuse.

As far as i'm concerned, the only abuse that counts is the physical one. That is the only one that can bring harm to you against your will and there is nothing the victim can do about it. If abuse is emotional, there is always the door you can walk out through. Simple as that.

Now 2 important exceptions:

1) If victim is physically held against his/her will and then abused emotionally, then it should qualify as physical abuse. Important distinction - victim can not walk away without being harmed.

2) Underage victims. Children by definition are fullly dependant on their parents and therefore qualify as "held against their will" if abused emotionally. Same goes for a victim who is physically disabled or impaired. If a full functioning adult puts him/herself in a situation of full dependency on another person and therefore feels like there is no way out, tough ######. It's his/her personal problem.

That is logical. Maybe not "humane" by someone's standards, but logical. Everyhing else is a bunch of liberal whining

[justashooter 430]

I cant disagree with you more. The OP is from India, and typically where the husband and his parents abuse the wife for dowry. The women are submissive and treat their husbands with respect no matter how abusive they are. Divorce, separation, calling the police is seen as a mark of disrespect and shame. The USC spouse was financially weak, stayed with his parents, and was greedy for dowry. The unreasonable dowry demands were not met, the abuse started, and the arranged marriage went downhill. A perfect stereotype of an Indian arranged marriage involving a greedy, lazy, loser, USC without a house, and a submissive, culturally strong Indian lady who could not meet his unreasonable demands.

Sure we don't see any cruelty in what the OP has posted. We have to look beyond normal and read between the lines. Also we have to know more about different traditions worldwide not just the mundane or banal "free" American tradition that we so used to.

We have to hear more from the OP about the causes of the breakup and abuse. The above maybe speculation but again classic Indian Dowry Abuse.

Hey 360,

Whether the husband lived up to Indian expectations for a husband is a moot point. The marriage took place in America, so all that counts is American law. That's just something immigrants are going to have to get used to. American law is not going to change to suit their perceived needs.

The OP may choose to indicate whether the husband is Indian, or not. I would wager that he is not, and that the girl was in the US on a visitor's visa. I would bet that the "marriage" was arranged, perhaps with the OP's help, to allow her to immigrate. I would bet that the USC who got taken in the deal just got tired of living with an Indian wife. I say this because his treatment of her as reported is not consistent with Indian behaviour, within the constraints of Indian culture ( and before I get bashed for not knowing anything about India, I would remind that I lived there for some time, saw much of the country, work with Indian engineers frequently, and am taking an Indian business partner to sightsee in DC this weekend).

I understand dowry, but the OP does not mention it, much less describe unreasonable demands. If the USC was not Indian, then there would have been no dowry to him, if the family was wise. The girl's mother would have held it and used it as a downpayment on a house or to buy furniture and such.

[-B&T- 1]

do you know that you can have him arrested? (just for threatening you with this)? His parents cannot throw you out of the house. They will need an eviction order.

If the judge won't order them to move out of their house, hey will order them to pay for your living in other place.

i don't know what planet you're from.

[MihaelaNYS 10]

" If abuse is emotional, there is always the door you can walk out through. Simple as that."

True, but I can tell from your posting that you have never experienced psycological and emotional abuse. It's far worse then the physical one.

I give you an example of what can happen from my own experience: my USC husband and his parents threatened me with deportation in case I don't comply unconditionally with their demands, yealed, insulted and humiliated me as much and often as they could ....and one evening, one my best friends (an american woman) seeing that I am very depressed, tired and sad about the situation at my home, said: why don't you stay here, in my house tonight so you can get some rest and good night sleep. And so I did. I didn't shut down my phone, so if anyone would be looking for me, I can be reached over the phone.

Next day I got a call from the police, the detective said that my husband filed a missing report on me, the police was looking for me.

They found me all right, 2 rings later ... The abuser was playing the "victim" part.

He made the situation looked as if I was the bad person who abandoned the family... and he was the nice, concerned husband.....

So, the bottom line is this: before you leave the household, make sure that you know your rights. Document everything, otherwise, you might look like the bad person.

Abandonment is ground for divorce (in some states).

Emotional abuse doesn't heal as easy as the phisical one - ask any doctor and will confirm. Also, it's hard to prove so, use the help of a phisician/psychologist.

[3600rs 24]

" If abuse is emotional, there is always the door you can walk out through. Simple as that."

True, but I can tell from your posting that you have never experienced psycological and emotional abuse. It's far worse then the physical one.

I give you an example of what can happen from my own experience: my USC husband and his parents threatened me with deportation in case I don't comply unconditionally with their demands, yealed, insulted and humiliated me as much and often as they could ....and one evening, one my best friends (an american woman) seeing that I am very depressed, tired and sad about the situation at my home, said: why don't you stay here, in my house tonight so you can get some rest and good night sleep. And so I did. I didn't shut down my phone, so if anyone would be looking for me, I can be reached over the phone.

Next day I got a call from the police, the detective said that my husband filed a missing report on me, the police was looking for me.

They found me all right, 2 rings later ... The abuser was playing the "victim" part.

He made the situation looked as if I was the bad person who abandoned the family... and he was the nice, concerned husband.....

So, the bottom line is this: before you leave the household, make sure that you know your rights. Document everything, otherwise, you might look like the bad person.

Abandonment is ground for divorce (in some states).

Emotional abuse doesn't heal as easy as the phisical one - ask any doctor and will confirm. Also, it's hard to prove so, use the help of a phisician/psychologist.

[WROCLAW 0]

best of luck to you. I hope things get better in the future.