Only a Photocopy of Birth Certificate

[KnightAndMagpie 7]

Knight here.

Okay everyone, Magpie and I are worried about an issue concerning her K1 interview. She has all documentation needed for her interview except her original birth certificate. She is an Indian-born British citizen who has been in the UK since age 1.

She attempted to retrieve her certificate by calling the Indian Embassy, which told her to go away.

She attempted to go through British channels: the High Commission and the Foreign Commonwealth Office. After she recorded a long and lengthy log of her being bounced around between these groups, she was finally informed she could pay a sum of GBP 121.00, which would require her sending a form to the FCO (which would probably take weeks for them to get to) and then they would process it (probably a few more weeks), and then they would finally see about finding her certificate (time of which "varies") ... If you notice below, her time til interview is very soon!

There are very good reasons why she doesn't have anything but her photocopy!

She is estranged from her family due to domestic problems which forced her to leave. There is a police record regarding this.

Here's the catch: Her family owns the original birth certificate, which makes me wonder if the FCO would be of any help to begin with.

The Police cannot retrieve her certificate for her, for some reason or other.

She has a written police statement that details these things. She does not have a baptismal certificate, and she certainly doesn't have any relative that would attest to her birth in Bangalore.

I want to know, because of the strictness of the USCIS, would they take into consideration these issues, and

Some countries do not have birth certificates to begin with (I was told Cambodia). If that is the case with Cambodia, and we take for fact Cambodians live in the USA, what is the possible result of all this?

Our nerves are very fried. Does anyone else know of anything in a situation like this? How did that turn out?

And, God forbid, if she is denied, is that a permament fate or can it be appealed if/when/somehow she got her original birth certificate?

Edited March 18, 2009 by KnightAndMagpie

[KnightAndMagpie 7]

I found this from another thread here on VJ:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/lofivers...x.php/t519.html

specifically:

What is acceptable is outlined in 8 CFR 103.2 b 2

(2) Submitting secondary evidence and affidavits.

(i) General. The non-existence or other unavailability of required evidence creates a presumption of ineligibility. If a required document, such as a birth or marriage certificate, does not exist or cannot be obtained, an applicant or petitioner must demonstrate this and submit secondary evidence, such as church or school records, pertinent to the facts at issue. If secondary evidence also does not exist or cannot be obtained, the applicant or petitioner must demonstrate the unavailability of both the required document and relevant secondary evidence, and submit two or more affidavits, sworn to or affirmed by persons who are not parties to the petition who have direct personal knowledge of the event and circumstances. Secondary evidence must overcome the unavailability of primary evidence, and affidavits must overcome the unavailability of both primary and secondary evidence.

(ii) Demonstrating that a record is not available. Where a record does not exist, the applicant or petitioner must submit an original written statement on government letterhead establishing this from the relevant government or other authority. The statement must indicate the reason the record does not exist, and indicate whether similar records for the time and place are available. However, a certification from an appropriate foreign government that a document does not exist is not required where the Department of State's Foreign Affairs Manual indicates this type of document generally does not exist. An applicant or petitioner who has not been able to acquire the necessary document or statement from the relevant foreign authority may submit evidence that repeated good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or statement. However, where the Service finds that such documents or statements are generally available, it may require that the applicant or petitioner submit the required document or statement.

Think the statement from the police will work? And the log she made of all her calls to the FCO, British High Commission, and Indian Embassy?

[defunct 0]

The consulate will accept baptismal/school records in lieu of a BC if obtaining the BC is impossible (the exceptions I've seen are due to fire or war). It sounds like your fiancee may be okay as long as she demonstrates that she attempted to locate the document but was unsuccessful. Has she tried contacting the consulate to ask what the exact policy is?

[defunct 0]

Also, I'm actually wondering if her family can legally hold any documents that are hers....hmmm...

[KnightAndMagpie 7]

The consulate will accept baptismal/school records in lieu of a BC if obtaining the BC is impossible (the exceptions I've seen are due to fire or war). It sounds like your fiancee may be okay as long as she demonstrates that she attempted to locate the document but was unsuccessful. Has she tried contacting the consulate to ask what the exact policy is?

So if she were to go to her high school and college and get her records, then signed by those people, she would be okay? And I'm not sure if she spoke to them about their exact policy, odds are she'd just be given the run around again

Also, I'm actually wondering if her family can legally hold any documents that are hers....hmmm...

The problem is that she is in school and cannot afford a solicitor to help her go through the legal channels to get it back. Worse, because they are not exactly morally upstanding people, they would likely deny having the certificate anyway, or have it shredded and destroyed. Worse yet, they would likely try to carry a legal battle against her concerning whether it does/doesn't exist. So the point there is lost

[defunct 0]

Well, I'd suggest that she contact the consulate anyway to see if there is any possibility that they will accept what she has available to her presently. Perhaps try posting in the Asia South Forum to see if anyone has recently obtained a BC from India.

When I sent away for my long-form BC, I just filled out an online application on the Provincial Government website of which I was born. I'm not sure if this is applicable to India, but a local/regional government channel might be more viable.

[rebeccajo 14]

Here's my analysis -

If a record of her birth can be obtained by paying a fee (even if it's astronomical) and waiting (even if it's past the date of her interview) then I believe the consulate will not issue a visa until such a document is produced. I do not believe they will accept secondary documents solely because obtaining the proper document is costly and protracted.

That doesn't mean they will deny the visa. In fact it's highly unlikely they would. But they wouldn't issue the visa either until the proper birth record is produced.

In other words - they will approve her pending production of a proper certificate of her birth.

[AnnexoxShay 1]

Here's my analysis -

If a record of her birth can be obtained by paying a fee (even if it's astronomical) and waiting (even if it's past the date of her interview) then I believe the consulate will not issue a visa until such a document is produced. I do not believe they will accept secondary documents solely because obtaining the proper document is costly and protracted.

That doesn't mean they will deny the visa. In fact it's highly unlikely they would. But they wouldn't issue the visa either until the proper birth record is produced.

In other words - they will approve her pending production of a proper certificate of her birth.

I think Rebeccajo is right .... I spent a couple hundred $ more then I needed to because I had to get the right identification .... Started way back before we even put in the petition ... both my parents were Greek immigrants and gave me a Greek name when I was born so when I hit my teens I changed it to Anne and got all my bills, id everything in Anne blahblahblah .. so when I tried to get my passport I did not have one stitch of evidence that I was infact the person with the Greek name, more the point I couldnt get enough documentation to prove I was this person because somethings were in Anne and somewhere in the other .... It took me forever to get photo ID's, Debit cards, bills, government papers etc ... I even had to go to the Dr and get my name changed on there records because with my medicare and healthcare card having a name change I couldnt get my diabeties and cholestrol meds .... it was like a snowball effect I couldnt get one thing unless I changed another .... and make it worse I still was showing up as my old married surnname on somethings to and Ive been divorced over 8 years...

Ironically when I finally changed everything and went back to my birth name I had gone in for my Police Check and in the question about Aliases I put in birth name + Maiden name + old surname but forgot about the Anne and was shocked when within seconds things popped up ... not to mention my grandmother who is like in her mid 80s and they asked me who this person was that shared the same exact name as me and I told them ..

I vote you pay the 121 and just get the BC ... your gonna need it in the future to get passport and other bits and pieces and if you dont youll have to keep doing this everytime so a slight delay now can save you tonnes of time in the future...

[Anh map 2,098]

A person will need certified copies of a birth certificate as they go through life in the US. At some point you and your future spouse are going to have to address the estranged family part of the equation. That is your challenge, not the fees or the steps that need to be taken.

Your fiance's birth was (most likely) officially recorded somewhere. That record may not be in a convenient part of the world, but if it's available then the onus is on you to get it.

The form instructions through the K1 process are clear about what is expected. You've had time to resolve the issue. Call the US embassy and get an answer. It may take some persistence. You aren't the only people who have run into this "problem." Get an answer and then do your best to provide alternate information.

But saying it's difficult and more than you budgeted for won't get you much sympathy. And more importantly could lead to delays in your K1 journey.

Keep working hard. It's all worth it in the end when you and your fiance are together.

[KnightAndMagpie 7]

She did email the US consulate ages ago. They told her to just bring whatever she had and they'd see if it was adequate. So at this point should she call and postpone the interview date until she has her original certificate? Or shpuld she go in anyway and see what happens? What would happen if she gpt "postponed"?

Edited March 18, 2009 by KnightAndMagpie

[KnightAndMagpie 7]

AND, how many times can she postpone her interview until she has her visa? I mean, guys, the GBP 121 is all fine and dandy but it could be up to 18 months before she gets it. She doesn't have that long: She's living in a dorm right now and has no where to go after she finishes school this semester (late May)

[rebeccajo 14]

AND, how many times can she postpone her interview until she has her visa? I mean, guys, the GBP 121 is all fine and dandy but it could be up to 18 months before she gets it. She doesn't have that long: She's living in a dorm right now and has no where to go after she finishes school this semester (late May)

I would not postpone the interview.

She should do what she was told - bring what she has. I'd bring a copy of the email telling her to do so as well.

If she has written proof it could take 18 months to obtain the birth certificate, bring that along also.

Take every ounce of proof that she has.

None of us can say with certainty what will happen. But I definitely would not postpone the interview.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

I would definitely go to the interview. She does have a photocopy, so that's more than no record. There's a chance they would take her photocopy with all her documentation. Or they would tell her exactly what they expect. I would also ask to speak to a supervisor in person so he could hear her story and see her evidence.

I would also contact her schools, maybe even one from when she was a young child as well as high school, and see if there is any record that shows her birthdate and parent's name on the same record. Does she have a long-time doctor at the NHS service that would have old records of her date of birth and parent names? They do ask for the long form birth certificate in London, which means it has to show the parent names. That's why I think a rcord that would include her parent's names would be even better than her name and birthdate only.