Canadian High School education vs. US High School education

[Sprailenes 47]

Every school my son has attended has had those contracts. He went to a catholic school in Canada and public schools down here. I would never want to get a child kicked out of school. If anything I'd like the school to work with the child and figure out the reasons behind the way they are acting. Sometimes kids just need someone to talk to. I mean if you can catch a bully early on and help them you can avoid a lot in the future.

In schools in Philadelphia a lot of the times the teacher turnover rate is 4 a year and more. My friend joined this program, I wish I could remember the name, where you just go teach inner city schools, you don't need a teachers certificate, they just need teachers that badly. Half of the time people end up leaving because it terrifies them. I don't feel sorry for the teachers, I feel sorry for the children. First of all they're lacking a good education due to the desperation of the schools and second they come from poverty and probably have a really crappy home life to act out the way they do.

[JillA 2]

Very smart of you, Nev. That is a great idea and a great way to handle it.

Yes! Reverse psychology!

Every school my son has attended has had those contracts. He went to a catholic school in Canada and public schools down here. I would never want to get a child kicked out of school. If anything I'd like the school to work with the child and figure out the reasons behind the way they are acting. Sometimes kids just need someone to talk to. I mean if you can catch a bully early on and help them you can avoid a lot in the future.

In schools in Philadelphia a lot of the times the teacher turnover rate is 4 a year and more. My friend joined this program, I wish I could remember the name, where you just go teach inner city schools, you don't need a teachers certificate, they just need teachers that badly. Half of the time people end up leaving because it terrifies them. I don't feel sorry for the teachers, I feel sorry for the children. First of all they're lacking a good education due to the desperation of the schools and second they come from poverty and probably have a really crappy home life to act out the way they do.

That's so true! Glen's cousin, fresh out of teaching college, got her first job at a school in Philly. Not sure what grade. Anyway she was harrased by the students, so bad she quit after 2 weeks. And another girl I know here, she's 6 months pregnant and was recently threatend by a student (harm to her and her baby). She quit that day. It's so awful

[DeadPoolX 9]

I've heard of schools were all the kids and teachers sign a social contract stating that not one of them would ever stand by and tolerate a bully in their midst. Every child and teacher agrees to do something if they see a bully in action. That contract is talked about and reinforced every day.

It sounds kind of naive but I've seen something similiar work. I went to a Catholic grade school where they drilled it into our heads over and over that witnessing someone hurting others and doing absolutely nothing was as much of a sin as abusing the people yourself is. They said that you have to do something, even if it's just going to get a teacher or parent. Again, it sounds naive but time and time again, I saw groups of children intervening when someone was being bullied. You'd be amazed at how quickly someone will run and hide when confronted by 5 or 10 classmates.

I'm not sure that it's something that would work in larger schools. It really the size of the schools here that terrify me. The largest school I ever went to before university had about 500 people.

~ Catherine

Social contract? Huh. That must be new.

When I was in school, the teachers did absolutely nothing. The teachers (and administration) said they couldn't do anything about the bullies unless they saw the bullying in action. If they were merely told about it, nothing was done or could be done. Needless to say, the amount of help a student could expect from a teacher was just about zero.

Other students were worthless. They loved to see fights. The more chaos and damage provided, the more they'd get excited. Sometimes it got pretty nasty.

I have trouble believing such social contracts actually work given my experiences. As I said before, talking to bullies or trying to be nice to them only got your face smashed into the pavement. The best way to handle these monsters was to play their own game and hurt them as much as possible.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Their is so much she can do on her own while your at work. She can also talor what she needs for College and just keep a record of what subjects she takes the Colleges like to see what she has been working on.

Maybe it's just me, but if my mother who home schooled me left me home all day while she worked, I probably would have slacked...like a lot.

True and I see your point, although frankly it couldn't get any worse with my daughter...no clue if I'll go down this road, but I'll try anything at this point

[Ontarkie 14,140]

Bah I was reading way to fast and I think I pm'd BermyCat instead of Udella haha, ok if I sent the link to bermy sorry about that, and if i did get it right yay, if not i'll get that link again and do it right.

[BermyCat 1]

Bah I was reading way to fast and I think I pm'd BermyCat instead of Udella haha, ok if I sent the link to bermy sorry about that, and if i did get it right yay, if not i'll get that link again and do it right.

Yeah, you sent it to me. I think I can forward it to her.

~ Catherine

Edit: Yup, the info should be in your mailbox Udella.

Edited March 20, 2009 by BermyCat

[Flames9_RN 358]

wow, ended up in wrong forum, weird!! post deleted!!

Edited March 20, 2009 by flames9

[Ontarkie 14,140]

Bah I was reading way to fast and I think I pm'd BermyCat instead of Udella haha, ok if I sent the link to bermy sorry about that, and if i did get it right yay, if not i'll get that link again and do it right.

Yeah, you sent it to me. I think I can forward it to her.

~ Catherine

Edit: Yup, the info should be in your mailbox Udella.

Thanks BermyCat, I just checked a little for the laws and regulations for VA its not too bad and doable.

[July09Bride 1]

I feel the need to stand up for myself as a teacher in the public school system. I am FULLY aware of the misfortunes faced by students (and teachers) in schools around the US. Here is my opinion as to why the US system is the way it is.

1- The US is based upon a democratic way of life. To that end, everyone believes that their "way" is right and sometimes you get people on the school boards and the pendulum starts to swing. Living here in Michigan, the districts are based on the local city/town. For example, the entire city of Detroit is one big district (hugely messed up, too btw). Where I teach, our district is considered "big" because we have 23 schools (elementary - middle - secondary). Many times I disagree with how curriculum is handled in my district. In fact, the conference I just spent 2 1/2 days at really made me peeved because I see the positive potential in what we could be doing, but because there are teachers who do their thing and only their thing and have been doing their thing for the past gazillion years, they'll keep on doing their thing their way. Because of the labor laws and how strong unions are in Michigan, teachers like that just have to retire out of the system. They hold teachers like me back because I want to allow the kids to learn for themsleves and learn using the technology they'll be using for the rest of their lives! (An aside -- one of my colleagues had me over to her house so I could show her Facebook. Really??? She couldn't figure it out on her own oike the rest of us???) Back to my first statement, too many choices and opportunities have been taken too far and no one knows how to reign it all in without raining on someone's parade without getting sued and everyone tries to make everyone happy.

2- Bullying. Yeah, NOT happening on my watch! I have a female student who was bullying a couple of other kids. One of the kids came to me and I addressed the situation outright. She broke down into tears and I was GLAD!!! I put on my "stern" face with the pursed lips and teeth gritting chat voice talking so quietly because I only wanted her to hear me. In addition, in schools where I have taught, we all have signs on our doors, in our classrooms, and in the hallways that say some version of the following... "I'm a teacher who cares and I will not tolerate bullying. Talk to me and we will solve the problem." In addition, if students "cyber-bully" while at home, we still deal with it at school. Sometimes parents aren't even aware of their students actions and they are MORTIFIED when we bring them in. Best part is, we have the KID tell what they're doing and the parents die again! Then again, there are parents who see nothing with how their child has been acting. That's when the school takes it to another level and try to help the parent understand better parenting techniques. Again, I knowthis doesn't happen everywhere.

3- After living in Arizona all of my life and then moving to Michigan, I realized HOW different the west is compared to the east. In the west, I had people of all types living around me (from living in the "old" part of Phoenix to random neighborhoods all over). Here in the east (yes, I'm calling Michigan the east) where the states and cities are older, things are more segregated. Back when the country was first being settled, people of like ethnicities lived in their repsective neighborhoods, cities, etc. Out in Arizona (where the state isn't even 100 years old, yet) you don't have that self-created segregation. In fact, I never knew (or at least realized) that a person's ethnicity was determined by their last name (ok... I figured the Mac's and Mc's were Irish and Scottish)! In fact, at one school where I was going to teach the following year, I had numerous Chaldean students all excited to have me as a teacher! I couldn't figure out why! They THOUGHT I was CHaldean, when in fact, my last name is Irish. The even funnier part is, I had a parent ARGUE with me that I must be mistaken. I had to be Chaldean and my family had it mixed up. Yeah, I'm pasty white in the winter, have brownish-auburn hair naturally (it was almost red when I was 7), and have blue eyes. RIGHT... I'm Chaldean!!! Ummm, nope. I have found that people in the east are much more arrogant about their background, their neighborhoods, and whatever they associate to be "theirs". ARGH!

4- Teachers overall start out positive and think they can take on the world and solve all of the world's problems. Problem is, many of them get bogged down by the system created by my item #1. They start to believe they can NO longer make a difference in the system, and start to go with the flow. In some locations, teachers who question the "old ways" are driven out by the "elders" of the district. In fact, so much so, that recently, many educators leave education and seek second careers because of how horrible the systems can be.

My point to all of this??? I guess, I just want people to realize that there ARE GOOD, GREAT, and FABULOUS teachers out there in the public school systems in America. Sometimes, you have to go through the not as amazing ones, but when you do, your child is so fortunate and will grow so much intellectually, socially, personally, and emotionally. Some of you may say, I don't want my child to have the not-so-good ones to try and find the amazing teachers. But, as teachers (public or private) we, as individuals, choose HOW we teach what we are told to teach. Here's a true story that's happening with me right now at school. Kids are researching the 50 states (each kid has a different state). My kids and another class that I teach writing to, are doing their research on the Internet and are creating a multi-media project covering all (and more) of the GLCE's (Grade Level Content Expectations). The other 2 teachers?? They're using books that have copyright dates from the 80's and 90's. Our kids are all researching and searching for the same information and the final projects will all contain the same final information. HOW I am choosing to teach the kids is different. WHAT I am teaching is the same. BTW, I'm not the end-all-be-all for teachers. I just choose to present information differently based on what I foresee the kids needing in their future.

All I wanted to do with this post is show the other side of education... something positive out there in the US public education system. I was kind of feeling beat up... when education is not just your profession, but your future, you tend to take things personally and want to make sure people know that there are terrific things going on in the neighborhood schools.

K--

[thetreble 19]

July,

I think you are a little mistaken about the posts as far as beating teachers up. That is not what the original post was and not what most of the posts were about. I appreciate what teachers do. They are such a foundational part of society and I have teachers from all the years of my schooling who I remember vividly and who I owe so much to.

I think you have to understand, though, that where we come from we don't really have to think twice about sending our children to the school down the street. I went to the school that was in my neighbourhood my whole life because no matter if I went there, or went to a school in the next city over, I was going to get the same education with the same chance to thrive. Then you move down here and it's a total different ball game.

I will tell you a little about my state. New Jersey is the most densely populated state in the US. You can drive from the top to bottom of the state in 3 hours. You can drive East to West in about an hour and 15 minutes before you hit Pennsylvania. New Jersey has 603 school districts. 281 of those districts have less than 2,000 students. The teacher's unions have always had the government, who is already screwed up, by the balls. Instead of making some of the districts regional and relieving the burden on tax payers, we pay out principals, school administrators and superintendents big "going away" pay outs. The most recent and very well talked about was a superintendent in the Jersey Shore area that received over 1 million dollars in a package when he was forced to retire.

Unfortunately, having so many districts has some towns paying 20K plus in property taxes a year. I don't even own any land, as I live in a townhouse that has a home owner's association, and my taxes are almost $6,000.00. That is really as cheap as it gets around where I live.

Any way, my point is, is that it is all the ####### that goes on with the school board that is scary for me. You take a state like New Jersey, and you have to seriously think about where you send your kids to school. We have SO many areas that are so dangerous to live in (irvington, newark, trenton, camden, hillside, elizabeth, etc.) that you can't even send your kids to school in half the towns in the state.

Again, where I come from my parents never worried a day about where we went to school or what kind of education we received. They just always assumed I was learning and growing. Here in the states, there seems to be a lot more variables and it's just scary for many of us. That doesn't mean there aren't great teachers out there, my brother is teacher and I know he's fantastic, but in some states there is a lot of ####### going on that is more political than educational.

Edited March 21, 2009 by thetreble

[Sprailenes 47]

80% of the property taxes go to the schools. And then if that's not enough the schools are constantly sending me home letters asking for more money.

I am not hating on the teachers, I am hating on the system. My son lives a half an hour away from where we lived last year and has a completely different curriculum and there is no flow from his previous grade. Where we come from in Ontario they prepare you for the next grade and you can count on it being fluid and an easier transition regardless of where you move. Here in New Jersey it's just not that way at all.

My son goes to a blue ribbon school, so its considered one of the best, even still I see a lot of problems with the inner workings. He likes this school more than his last though and he's doing a lot better.

[Sprailenes 47]

And I should add that I don't know where a lot of that money goes because my MIL is a teacher and gets very little per year for her class room budget and she buys most of the stuff for her classroom out of her own pocket. But I think you can go anywhere and hear the woes of a teacher... back home or here in the states. Not paid enough to do what they do, low classroom budgets etc.

[BermyCat 1]

Phil is a prime example of July09bride's fourth point. He left teaching because he couldn't handle the politics and the obstacles put in his way when he tried non-traditional ways to capture his students interests. It's a shame really. I'm sure he was a great teacher. We've run kids fishing tornaments together and he's just fantastic with impressing the rules and techniques on the kids as well as helping them with the actual fishing. The tornaments ranged from little four-year-olds to teenagers.

Now he's an ecologist and helping to preserve the wetlands in Georgia.

~ Catherine

[thetreble 19]

And I should add that I don't know where a lot of that money goes

Corzine's pocket

[DeadPoolX 9]

Phil is a prime example of July09bride's fourth point. He left teaching because he couldn't handle the politics and the obstacles put in his way when he tried non-traditional ways to capture his students interests. It's a shame really. I'm sure he was a great teacher. We've run kids fishing tornaments together and he's just fantastic with impressing the rules and techniques on the kids as well as helping them with the actual fishing. The tornaments ranged from little four-year-olds to teenagers.

Now he's an ecologist and helping to preserve the wetlands in Georgia.

~ Catherine

I have a friend who was a teacher -- and she loved it -- but she eventually quit. Teachers in the U.S. have their hands tied. They can't enforce any sort of discipline in their classrooms or parents get angry. I don't mean using a paddle, but even if a teacher speaks loudly or makes some sort of disciplinary action, the parents can complain and even bring a lawsuit against the teacher and school.

It doesn't help matters that the administration was always on the parents' side on issues. My friend would get in trouble for attempting to maintain order in her classroom. Another problem was that parents refused to take responsibility for their children. If their kids acted up, it was because of the teacher -- not due to anything the parents themselves might have done or not done.

It's a shame too. America's supply of teachers is dwindling. Why shouldn't it? Lousy pay, no respect, students and parents gang up on you... the entire field needs a huge overhaul.