Freedom VS. Democracy

[mRx 16]

I am surprised that LS liked it, it goes against most of the things he purports to believe in.

Libertarians are scary. You should just ignore them.

They offer idealist economic policies which tend not to take into account actual human behavior. If they ever got their way, the us wouldn't be a very good place to be for most people.

Are you comparing Libertarians to Communists? Because they won't stand for that.

Both are really idealists but on different sides of the spectrum (Total economic control vs. total economic freedom). Neither tends to account for actual human behavior or assumes that humans will behave like ethical and/or rational machines. The realistic place to be is somewhere in the middle.

Way off. The real idealists are the current political parties, with their greatest "good" for the greatest number. What is good? Is it good for you? Or good for me? Mass subjectiveness.

Classical Liberalism, just affirms that each individual has the right to his own person (is a self owner), has the right to his own land, and has a right to do as he pleases with the fruits of his labor. The law comes into play when one violates another's person or property.

What's so unrealistic about that?

[HannahP 119]

I hear that classical medicine had something to do with the four humors?

[mRx 16]

Your substantive rights include your right to: (1) life, liberty, and property,

Inalienable would be a more suitable adjective.

So do you think these rights are guaranteed and protected by government or should they be issued and withdrawaled by government?

Well, they aren't guarenteed by the Constitution.

Read the 5th Amendment, and remember, this country was founded on the self evident truths that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable rights, and to the protect these rights, governments are instituted among men.

[Dan J 277]

I am surprised that LS liked it, it goes against most of the things he purports to believe in.

Libertarians are scary. You should just ignore them.

They offer idealist economic policies which tend not to take into account actual human behavior. If they ever got their way, the us wouldn't be a very good place to be for most people.

Are you comparing Libertarians to Communists? Because they won't stand for that.

Both are really idealists but on different sides of the spectrum (Total economic control vs. total economic freedom). Neither tends to account for actual human behavior or assumes that humans will behave like ethical and/or rational machines. The realistic place to be is somewhere in the middle.

Way off. The real idealists are the current political parties, with their greatest "good" for the greatest number. What is good? Is it good for you? Or good for me? Mass subjectiveness.

Classical Liberalism, just affirms that each individual has the right to his own person (is a self owner), has the right to his own land, and has a right to do as he pleases with the fruits of his labor. The law comes into play when one violates another's person or property.

What's so unrealistic about that?

Lets me clarify, I am talking about economic models put forth by both sides. Both have been tried throughout history and generally only work well on a small scale.

The economic model of communism is total economic control. The soviet union practiced that, with no much success. With everyone being "equal" there is little initiative to innovate or be more productive than anyone else.

Economic liberalism had been tried in this country during the industrialization of this country. What resulted was monopolies, control, corruption, and intimidation. The only real economic freedom was available to the elite, most workers were more or less slaves due to their economic conditions. Because of this, the law was less in favor of the people, and more in the favor of the economic elite.

It was largely due to the labor movements that changed the balance of this country, and gave real economic and political freedom to most of the people in this country. But the result of that was a move away from some of the tenets of economic liberalism with greater regulation of corporations and its business practices.

You may stick to your idealistic view of economic liberalism, but those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. To some extent that started to happen, with an erosion of economic freedom (Lower medium income, less discretionary power) of lower and middle classes.

[mRx 16]

I am surprised that LS liked it, it goes against most of the things he purports to believe in.

Libertarians are scary. You should just ignore them.

They offer idealist economic policies which tend not to take into account actual human behavior. If they ever got their way, the us wouldn't be a very good place to be for most people.

Are you comparing Libertarians to Communists? Because they won't stand for that.

Both are really idealists but on different sides of the spectrum (Total economic control vs. total economic freedom). Neither tends to account for actual human behavior or assumes that humans will behave like ethical and/or rational machines. The realistic place to be is somewhere in the middle.

Way off. The real idealists are the current political parties, with their greatest "good" for the greatest number. What is good? Is it good for you? Or good for me? Mass subjectiveness.

Classical Liberalism, just affirms that each individual has the right to his own person (is a self owner), has the right to his own land, and has a right to do as he pleases with the fruits of his labor. The law comes into play when one violates another's person or property.

What's so unrealistic about that?

Lets me clarify, I am talking about economic models put forth by both sides. Both have been tried throughout history and generally only work well on a small scale.

The economic model of communism is total economic control. The soviet union practiced that, with no much success. With everyone being "equal" there is little initiative to innovate or be more productive than anyone else.

Economic liberalism had been tried in this country during the industrialization of this country. What resulted was monopolies, control, corruption, and intimidation. The only real economic freedom was available to the elite, most workers were more or less slaves due to their economic conditions. Because of this, the law was less in favor of the people, and more in the favor of the economic elite.

It was largely due to the labor movements that changed the balance of this country, and gave real economic and political freedom to most of the people in this country. But the result of that was a move away from some of the tenets of economic liberalism with greater regulation of corporations and its business practices.

You may stick to your idealistic view of economic liberalism, but those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. To some extent that started to happen, with an erosion of economic freedom (Lower medium income, less discretionary power) of lower and middle classes.

Dan, free monopolies are a result of free-market efficiency and competition. They need no external force exerted upon them by the government. Here's more on monopolies. Economic elite arise because of us. Because they make a good or service that we want more than a myriad of others. These underlying axioms occur regardless of what regulation is imposed. That's why people still buy drugs illegally. They still smoke cigars made from embargoed countries.

The main catalyst that transformed our economy away from prosperity and wealth was brought about through central banking in the 1860's. History should've taught us that non-specie currency would fail (as the swift failure of Continental currency), but it didn't. It had nothing to do with any failure of the market.

But... anyways. Back to the topic. From a social perspective, isn't classical liberalism the best social policy to have? It's definetely the most non-subjective of the theories, and probably the easiest to apply.

[Time2gopeacefully 0]

Sometimes i do wonder if Freedom & Democracy truly exist!

[MsMariah 0]

Why did US law give corporations the same rights as individuals, and isn't that the true folly which has spiraled into the global cesspit of self seeking which we are face to face with today?

Why is our money not backed by something of value? Why is there no oversight of US coffers?

Good article. Thanks for sharing.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

You sound like a broken record. The countries a mess because of your hero's. Grow up and get a clue.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

You sound like a broken record. The countries a mess because of your hero's. Grow up and get a clue.

Victimhood? Put your hand out and i will slap it down!

Edited March 13, 2009 by ={Rogue}=

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

You sound like a broken record. The countries a mess because of your hero's. Grow up and get a clue.

Victimhood?

Let's talk about this intelligently, I'm here, who are you going to bring to help you?

[Dan J 277]

Why is our money not backed by something of value?

It used to be, but working that way is not particularly efficient, at least not with our modern system.Our modern system was developed to help prevent bank collapses due to bank runs. As well as helping capital move more freely from creditors to debtors and back.

Why is there no oversight of US coffers?

There is, except its susceptible to political pressure. Those responsible for oversight are human too, and probably have their own vested interests in the market. Which will result in biased decisions.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

You sound like a broken record. The countries a mess because of your hero's. Grow up and get a clue.

Victimhood?

Let's talk about this intelligently, I'm here, who are you going to bring to help you?

Your history only goes back to your birth! Go back a little further to the founding of your country! Do you recognize the players? Quit thinking about yourself and think about all! Please listen closely! This is what our country was founded on and it wasnt founded on YOU!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Pay special attention FROM 4:28

[Dan J 277]

I love how democrat devisevness works! You ppl that buy it are fools! You sit back and complain about rich ppl all the while hopin you can be like them. Its there for the taking, just get out there and get it! Dont let the pussys of life scramble your dreams!

Dems just say "I cant" Your bein put down like a stray dog by this scumbag president, he wants you to be a victim that way he can profess to take care of you! Get up off your takin ####### and make your life!

Theres millions of dollars floatin out there, go get some! ** man what you doin beggin for scraps? You dont need no fvckin hand-outs! GEEEEEEEZ!

You sound like a broken record. The countries a mess because of your hero's. Grow up and get a clue.

Victimhood?

Let's talk about this intelligently, I'm here, who are you going to bring to help you?

Your history only goes back to your birth! Go back a little further to the founding of your country! Do you recognize the players? Quit thinking about yourself and think about all! Please listen closely! This is what our country was founded on and it wasnt founded on YOU!

Let me get this straight. You used a clip, from a work of fiction to justify your point? Seriously?