Who Makes the Best Cars?

[sj5 4]

We are looking for new vehicle .. if I want road noise ... I'll buy Japan.

Who want's to get out of the car after a long trip and have buzzing ears from road noise?

[MarkTexas 3]

I only got ONE tip; Stay FAR AWAY from ANY FORD V8-Diesel (fleet & civillian models)

F250, F350, F450 & F550 series single & duallie wheel after 2005!

My Company Got;

5 X F250's single wheel Late 2007 model

20 X F350's Duallie wheel Late 2007 model

10 X F450's Duallie wheel Mid 2008 model

7 X F550's Duallie wheel Mid 2008 model

Every single one is DEALER maintained!

And EVERY single one of them have been "MORE IN THE SHOP, THEN ON THE JOB!"

Problems?

- Fire and flames comming into the truck through the fire wall

- Complete engine replacements just after hitting the 10.000 mile mark!!!

- Fuel tanks rusting on the INSIDE after just 40.000 miles!

- 23 complete turbo's replacements within 37.000miles!

- ICP sensors quitting

- Blown head gaskets

- EGR cooler replacements and replaced again within 6months of the new one! $2000,- a piece!

- EGR valves replacments

- Oil leaks within the first 5.000 miles

- Computer problem's/lock-up's/failure,...which causes everything else electric to fail aswell!

- Injector replacements before 40.000 miles!

- Pressure sensors not working

- Radio's not working anymore AFTER being in the shop at the dealer!

- Ect

- Ect

- And the list of FORD failures goes ON and ON and ON and ON and ON!

- Ect

- Ect

The engine failed on 37 Trucks within the first 3000 miles!

Ford does not want to cover it under warranty.

They say that we put some Bad Fuel in them, and that the parts are not covered under warranty!

Ford does NOT believe that they have a Engine and EVERYTHING else design problem.

I know a design engineer for a nuclear power plant and HE is relatively confident that their

management and the public would be VERY concerned if HIS/THEIR product design had the same failure rate as FORD!

Wish we read this list below BEFORE purchasing THAT many trucks!

Quote; COPY / PASTE

FORD

F**ked Over Rebuilt Dodge

Flip Over Read Directions

Fix Or Repair Daily

Found On Rockville Dump

Fails On Rainy Days

First On Recall Day

First On Road Dump

First On Rust Deterioration

Found On Road Dead

Found On Rubbish Dump

Four Old Rusty Doors

Fast Only Rolling Downhill

Freaky Obsolete Racing Device

Fireball On Rear Denting

Fork Over Repair Dough

Frequent Opinion: Really Disappointed

Fumes and Odors Readily Detectable

Forward Only, Reverse Defective

Forced On Reluctant Drivers

Source; http://www.diecast-pub.com/forums2/index.php?showtopic=6758

FORD:

Frigin' Old Rebuilt Dodge

Fix Or Repair Daily

Found On Road Dead

Fast Only Rolling Downhill

First On Race Day

First On Recall Day

Fabricated Of Refried Dung

Fails On Rainy Days

Fantastically Orgasmic Realistic Dream

Fatally Obese Redneck Driver

Fault Of R&D

Finally Obsolete Racing Device

Fireball On Rear Denting

First On Road to Dump

First On Rust and Deterioration

Fix Or Recycle Dilemma

Flipping Over Results in Death

Flipped Over Roadside Disaster

Follow Our Rusty Dogsled

Foot On Road Decelerates

Forced On Reluctant Drivers

Formed Of Rejected DNA

Forwarded Once; Return Denied

Forward Only; Reverse Defective

Forlorn, Old, Ratridden Dustbin

Fork Over Repair Dough

Fouled Out Re-done Dodge

Frequent Overhaul, Rapid Deterioration

Free Or Reduced Drastically

Frequent Opinion: Really Disappointed

Fumes and Odors Readily Detectable

Funny Old Rattling Dump

(backwards) Driver Returns On Foot

Source; http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/humor-09.html

And believe it or not,......these basically BRAND-SPANKING-NEW trucks are NOT covered

under the so called; "lemon law!"

"FORD-pickup's",......are litterally the most expensive piece's of JUNK you will ever buy!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Mark, that's the best avatar...ever.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Labor Unions and lazy American workers have destroyed the American car companies. Unfortunately the Japanese have started building many of their cars in America also and now the quality of those have started to slip as well. I had to buy a Camry Hybrid to get a Japanese car that was built in Japan.

Bob

Bullsh!t. That's a faulty argument. Car buyers aren't choosing vehicles based on sticker price, but on value, which is why there's a healthy market for higher end vehicles. It's a lame excuse to lay the blame on the auto unions as to why Detroit is hurting. It's not poor workmanship, but lacking design and engineering that makes the difference.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Labor Unions and lazy American workers have destroyed the American car companies. Unfortunately the Japanese have started building many of their cars in America also and now the quality of those have started to slip as well. I had to buy a Camry Hybrid to get a Japanese car that was built in Japan.

Bob

Bullsh!t. That's a faulty argument. Car buyers aren't choosing vehicles based on sticker price, but on value, which is why there's a healthy market for higher end vehicles. It's a lame excuse to lay the blame on the auto unions as to why Detroit is hurting. It's not poor workmanship, but lacking design and engineering that makes the difference.

no thats bullsh!t steven. lack of profit is killing detroit. as in too much $$ going to medical bennies & pensions for retired & current lazy azz union workers. they just can't compete w/ foreign car companies that have 1/2 the expenses.

btw: thanks for another vote for America & American companies.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Labor Unions and lazy American workers have destroyed the American car companies. Unfortunately the Japanese have started building many of their cars in America also and now the quality of those have started to slip as well. I had to buy a Camry Hybrid to get a Japanese car that was built in Japan.

Bob

Bullsh!t. That's a faulty argument. Car buyers aren't choosing vehicles based on sticker price, but on value, which is why there's a healthy market for higher end vehicles. It's a lame excuse to lay the blame on the auto unions as to why Detroit is hurting. It's not poor workmanship, but lacking design and engineering that makes the difference.

no thats bullsh!t steven. lack of profit is killing detroit. as in too much $ going to medical bennies & pensions for retired & current lazy azz union workers. they just can't compete w/ foreign car companies that have 1/2 the expenses.

btw: thanks for another vote for America & American companies.

Mike, think about it. The sticker price of the car reflects not only the manufacturing costs but profit. So what you're saying is, that Detroit can't sell it's vehicles at a price that brings in a profit...that's pure bullsh!t. Car buyers choose value over price and they're willing to spending upwards of 60g's if they believe the car is a good value at that price. So to lay the blame on the auto unions is just scapegoating the missteps and missed oportunities of Detroit. I know this the stock argument for many on the right, but I challenge you and anyone to really think your argument through. It makes absolutely no sense.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Labor Unions and lazy American workers have destroyed the American car companies. Unfortunately the Japanese have started building many of their cars in America also and now the quality of those have started to slip as well. I had to buy a Camry Hybrid to get a Japanese car that was built in Japan.

Bob

Bullsh!t. That's a faulty argument. Car buyers aren't choosing vehicles based on sticker price, but on value, which is why there's a healthy market for higher end vehicles. It's a lame excuse to lay the blame on the auto unions as to why Detroit is hurting. It's not poor workmanship, but lacking design and engineering that makes the difference.

no thats bullsh!t steven. lack of profit is killing detroit. as in too much $ going to medical bennies & pensions for retired & current lazy azz union workers. they just can't compete w/ foreign car companies that have 1/2 the expenses.

btw: thanks for another vote for America & American companies.

Mike, think about it. The sticker price of the car reflects not only the manufacturing costs but profit. So what you're saying is, that Detroit can't sell it's vehicles at a price that brings in a profit...that's pure bullsh!t. Car buyers choose value over price and they're willing to spending upwards of 60g's if they believe the car is a good value at that price. So to lay the blame on the auto unions is just scapegoating the missteps and missed oportunities of Detroit. I know this the stock argument for many on the right, but I challenge you and anyone to really think your argument through. It makes absolutely no sense.

as someone (me) that actually works in the auto industry (collision repair). you sitting here & blowing on & on about how American cars & American car companies suck, pisses me off. you don't know ####### you're talking about steven. American cars are built as well as any foreign car.(don't even try to compare a $80k BMW or a $50k Avalon w/ a $20k Malibu) they have standards they have to meet, before the hit the market. its not scapegoating or left & right, its reality.

camary vs. cobalt...both about $20k. if estimated labor/medical cost $20-$25 per hour to build a camary & $30-$40 per hour to build the cobalt (and those estimates are in favor of your arguement) its not hard to see the problem is it?

Edited March 12, 2009 by SMOKE

[one...two...tree 2,762]

as someone (me) that actually works in the auto industry (collision repair). you sitting here & blowing on & on about how American cars & American car companies suck, pisses me off. you don't know ####### you're talking about steven. American cars are built as well as any foreign car.(don't even try to compare a $80k BMW or a $50 Avalon w/ a $20k Malibu) they have standards they have to meet, before the hit the market. its not scapegoating or left & right, its reality. camary vs. cobalt...both about $20k. if estimated labor/medical cost $20-$25 per hour to build a camary & $30-$40 per hour to build the cobalt (and those estimates are in favor of your arguement) its not hard to see the problem is it?

What I'm saying is that profit margins are there....decided by the suits, not the workers on the assembly line. If they can't successfully design, market and sell a car that is worth it's sticker price and make a profit, it's the automakers themselves who have failed. Do you realize that Canada has their own auto union, as does Germany. How is it that the German auto makers can succeed using union labor while Detroit can't? Because it's a faulty argument to begin with.

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

all 3 vehicles here are gm (2 x chevy, 1 x pontiac).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

BTW, Mike - if you want to compare the Chevy Cobalt to the Toyota Camry - the Camry is about $5g's more.

Here's a good comparison of the two. (tell me how this is the UAW fault?)

Performance

Both the Cobalt and the Toyota Camry are likely to feel a bit sluggish because of their high horsepower-to-weight ratio.

Handling

The Toyota Camry and the Chevrolet Cobalt have about comparable tires. With its tighter turning circle, the Chevrolet Cobalt is very likely more maneuverable than the Toyota Camry, something to consider if you do a lot of city driving; on the other hand, note that a vehicle with a tight turning circle may feel a bit twitchy on the highway.

Drivetrain

The Chevrolet Cobalt and the Toyota Camry have similar-sized engines, with a slight advantage to the Toyota Camry. Torque is the force that lets you accelerate quickly, and in this respect, the Toyota Camry isn't much more powerful than the Chevrolet Cobalt.

Utility

Neither the Cobalt nor the Toyota has a marked advantage when it comes to seating capacity.

Convenience

You'll very likely have to take the Chevrolet for a fill-up more often than the Toyota Camry because of its tank size and fuel economy.

Comfort

While the front cabin in the Toyota offers a bit more head room than the Chevrolet Cobalt, there really isn't much of a difference. The ampler interior dimensions of the Toyota Camry make it quite a bit roomier for your passengers than the Chevrolet Cobalt.

Dimensions

The Toyota is a little more ponderous than the Chevrolet Cobalt. Your wallet will hurt more every time you fill up the Toyota Camry than the Chevrolet Cobalt because of its bigger tank. The Chevrolet and the Camry compete for the same parking spaces.

Cost

The destination charge is a standard charge for transporting the vehicle from its point of origin to the dealer. It costs roughly the same to get the Camry to the dealership as the Chevrolet. The Toyota Camry won't save you much money at the pump compared to the Chevrolet Cobalt. With respect to MSRP, the Camry costs markedly more than the Chevrolet.

http://www.newcars.com/chevrolet/cobalt/re...yota-camry.html

[SMOKE 1,426]

as someone (me) that actually works in the auto industry (collision repair). you sitting here & blowing on & on about how American cars & American car companies suck, pisses me off. you don't know ####### you're talking about steven. American cars are built as well as any foreign car.(don't even try to compare a $80k BMW or a $50 Avalon w/ a $20k Malibu) they have standards they have to meet, before the hit the market. its not scapegoating or left & right, its reality. camary vs. cobalt...both about $20k. if estimated labor/medical cost $20-$25 per hour to build a camary & $30-$40 per hour to build the cobalt (and those estimates are in favor of your arguement) its not hard to see the problem is it?

What I'm saying is that profit margins are there....decided by the suits, not the workers on the assembly line. If they can't successfully design, market and sell a car that is worth it's sticker price and make a profit, it's the automakers themselves who have failed. Do you realize that Canada has their own auto union, as does Germany. How is it that the German auto makers can succeed using union labor while Detroit can't? Because it's a faulty argument to begin with.

OMFG! do you read this ####### you're posting? or are copying & pasting from the UAW handbook? yes there is a profit margin. but, to get there the US carmakers have to jack their prices to cover the costs. that $20k cobalt i used as an example should cost $15k, but, because the UAW has their nuts in a vise, they can't sell it for $15k. yes i know about the Canadian unions (many US cars are made there). the difference in the Canadian union & UAW is the Canadian auto workers union sees the problem & have been making concessions...not the United Azz Whipes though. they don't care they want the rediculous pay & full medical for life they locked the US companies down (strikes) to get.

as much as this is going to hurt you steven, GM, Ford, & Chrysler will be around longer than we will. if need be, they will file chapter 13 & get out of the union contracts. i remember in Obamas adress to congress he said something i truley loved. “And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it.” although he is wrong about that. karl benz (German) did in 1885 or you can go back further if you like & say robert andersen (scotish) made an electic vehicle in the 1830's or even nicolas-joseph cugnot (french) in 1769 (steam powered). what Obama said means he/we/me & you better be prepared to throw the treasury at detroit if we have to. coz he will.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

LOL, come down, Mike...we're just having a discussion.

I never said American cars suck. Nor do I wish them ill. The OP was an unbiased report on the best cars out there.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's lame to say you can't manufacture a car and sell it at a sticker price that is profitable because of labor costs when for one, the UAW has been around a long time and two, Germany and Canada have auto unions and have proven successful in turning a profit. It's nothing more than a blame game ...the UAW is the scapegoat while the executives who actually run the company are somehow angels.

[Niels Bohr 72]

FORD: Built to Last

[William33 110]

I once believed that buying an American automobile was patriotic. That was until I repeatedly had to endure costly repairs (outside the warranty), while still making payments.

Over 10 years ago, I was given a Camry with a thrown timing belt, which I replaced. That Camry with 110k miles served me on a long daily work commute for 3 years, without any other issues. I sold that car for $1500, with 185,000 miles. At that stage, I was sold on the durability of the Japanese automobile. Having also lived in Japan, where 5 year old vehicles can be had for a song given the stringent inspection process, I became absolutely convinced.

People are free to buy whatever they want, I choose to get the best value and performance for my money.

Acura does it for me.

Edited March 12, 2009 by William33

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

Acura does it for me.

anti-american elitist!