You're Dead? That Won't Stop the Debt Collector

[almaty 19]

The banks need another bailout and countless homeowners cannot handle their mortgage payments, but one group is paying its bills: the dead.

Dozens of specially trained agents work on the third floor of DCM Services here, calling up the dear departed’s next of kin and kindly asking if they want to settle the balance on a credit card or bank loan, or perhaps make that final utility bill or cellphone payment.

The people on the other end of the line often have no legal obligation to assume the debt of a spouse, sibling or parent. But they take responsibility for it anyway.

“I am out of work now, to be honest with you, and money is very tight for us,” one man declared on a recent phone call after he was apprised of his late mother-in-law’s $280 credit card bill. He promised to pay $15 a month.

Dead people are the newest frontier in debt collecting, and one of the healthiest parts of the industry. Those who dun the living say that people are so scared and so broke it is difficult to get them to cough up even token payments.

Collecting from the dead, however, is expanding. Improved database technology is making it easier to discover when estates are opened in the country’s 3,000 probate courts, giving collectors an opportunity to file timely claims. But if there is no formal estate and thus nothing to file against, the human touch comes into play.

New hires at DCM train for three weeks in what the company calls “empathic active listening,” which mixes the comforting air of a funeral director with the nonjudgmental tones of a friend. The new employees learn to use such anger-deflecting phrases as “If I hear you correctly, you’d like...”

“You get to be the person who cares,” the training manager, Autumn Boomgaarden, told a class of four new hires.

For some relatives, paying is pragmatic. The law varies from state to state, but generally survivors are not required to pay a dead relative’s bills from their own assets. In theory, however, collection agencies could go after any property inherited from the deceased.

But sentiment also plays a large role, the agencies say. Some relatives are loyal to the credit card or bank in question. Some feel a strong sense of morality, that all debts should be paid. Most of all, people feel they are honoring the wishes of their loved ones.

“In times of illness and death, the hierarchy of debts is adjusted,” said Michael Ginsberg of Kaulkin Ginsberg, a consulting company to the debt collection industry. “We do our best to make sure our doctor is paid, because we might need him again. And we want the dead to rest easy, knowing their obligations are taken care of.”

Finally, of course, some of those who pay a dead relative’s debts are unaware they may have no legal obligation.

Scott Weltman of Weltman, Weinberg & Reis, a Cleveland law firm that performs deceased collections, says that if family members ask, “we definitely tell them” they have no legal obligation to pay. “But is it disclosed upfront — ‘Mr. Smith, you definitely don’t owe the money’? It’s not that blunt.”

DCM Services, which began in 1999 as a law firm, recently acquired clients in banking, automobile finance, retailing, telecommunications and health care; DCM says its contracts preclude it from naming them.

The companies “want to protect their brand,” said DCM’s chief executive, Steven Farsht. Despite the delicacy of such collections, he says his 180-employee firm is providing a service to the economy. “The financial services industry is under a tremendous amount of pressure, and every dollar we collect improves their profitability,” he said.

To listen to even a small sample of DCM’s calls — executives played tapes of 10 of them for a reporter, electronically edited to remove all names — is to reveal the wages of misery, right down to the penny.

A man has left credit card debt of $26,693.77, the legacy of a battle with cancer. A widow says her husband “had no money. He pretty much just had debt.” Asked about an outstanding account of $1,084.86, a woman says the deceased had no property beyond “some tools in the garage” and an 18-year-old Dodge.

Not everyone has the temperament to make such calls. About half of DCM’s hires do not make it past the first 90 days. For those who survive, many tools help them deal with stress: yoga classes and foosball tables, a rotating assortment of free snacks as well as full-scale lunches twice a month. A masseuse comes in regularly to work on their heads and necks.

Brenda Edwards, one of DCM’s top collectors, spoke with a woman in New Jersey about her mother’s $544.96 credit card bill.

“She had no will, no finances, nothing,” the daughter said. “Nothing went to probate.” The $200 in the checking account was used for funeral expenses. But the woman also said the family “filed a form with the county,” indicating that perhaps there was a legal estate after all.

“Is anyone in the family in a position to pay this?” Ms. Edwards asked, adding: “I’m not telling you it needs to be paid at all.”

The woman reached a decision. “I will talk to my brothers and sisters and we will pay this,” she said.

Ms. Edwards has a girlish voice that sounds younger than her 29 years. “If you plant a seed and leave on a good note, they’ll call back and pay it,” she said.

DCM started a Web site called MyWayForward.com to provide the bereaved with information, tools and, some day, products. “We will never sell death. But it’s O.K. to provide things that could be helpful to the survivor,” Mr. Farsht said. Death will be the end of one customer relationship but the beginning of another.

Some survivors are surprised, and a few are shocked, that they are hearing from a collector.

Eric Frenchman, an online consultant, said a DCM agent inquired about his late father’s $50 Discover card balance before the bill was even due. Since Mr. Frenchman had been planning to pay it anyway, he emerged from the experience vowing never to get a Discover card himself.

The major deceased-debt firms say such experiences are rare. Adam Cohen, chief executive of Phillips & Cohen Associates of Westampton, N.J., said his team of 300 collectors “are all trained in the five stages of grief.”

If a relative is more focused on denial or anger instead of, say, bargaining, the collector offers to transfer him to the human resources company Ceridian LifeWorks, where “master’s level grief counselors” are standing by. After a week, the relative is contacted again.

DCM executives say some of the survivors not only gladly pay but write appreciative notes. They offered up a stack, with the names deleted, as proof.

One widow wrote that a collector “was so nice to me, even when I could only pay $5 a month a few times.” Saying that money was “so tight” after her husband died, she added: “It was very hard for me, and to get a job at my age. Thank you.”

[almaty 19]

If a relative is more focused on denial or anger instead of, say, bargaining, the collector offers to transfer him to the human resources company Ceridian LifeWorks, where “master’s level grief counselors” are standing by. After a week, the relative is contacted again.

\

know ceridian well, they are an EAP group and do allot fo gov't counseling contracts..plus, provide on-line theraoy...looks like now, they are aiding collections groups...

[Ban Hammer 13,344]

oh yeah, i got calls from people when my dad died. it's annoying!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

[Nagishkaw 510]

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

0MG!! Thats just cold .

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

0MG!! Thats just cold .

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

0MG!! Thats just cold .

Yeah it wasn't exactly the shining standard of customer service.

I think they assume that everyone they talk to is lying.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Really, it is sickening.

[almaty 19]

a very sad state of affairs...

[Sprailenes 47]

I would tell them where to go.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

Shut up. WOW.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Those people are bastards. One of my first f/t jobs was at a bank - and they actually had people on the phone 24 hours a day trying to get credit card payments out of people who were:

Dead/Dying (the one example I remember was the agent saying "Cancer's not my problem")

In a mental asylum

In Jail

Shut up. WOW.

Seriously. They got bonuses on closing outstanding accounts - there were some rules to it, but basically a lot of it was trying to strong-arm the person into paying.

Some of the big banks actually have separate company names for their collections agencies, so that it looks like a *real* collections agency (which it usually goes to just before it goes to court - a long time in other words).

Edited March 10, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[JODO 2]

That is ridiculous.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

That is so disgusting.

A colleague here is dealing with them all the time (due to her own fault, mind you); and I can just overhear the poor woman sobbing. I wonder why they tell her.

[natty bumppo 297]

this will sound a little cold ...

debts don't go away simply because someone died ... or why pay debts at all? just let them accumulate ... kick the bucket and let the bank or whatever entity eat it. I don't think this is a good method for lending $$$.

people dying intestate leave a mess behind for others to clean-up. probate courts ... try to settle the accounts of the decedent. Once courts get involved ... don't forget there are probably "court fees" and "percentages" they will deduct for handling affairs.

One thing to consider for all those in vj-land ... check with an estate atty to see what happens to a surviving spouse ... is the spouse responsible for the debt (community property) of the decedent in your State? What measures are being taken within your household to make sure the surviving spouse can ... well survive financially?

Edited March 10, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Back then they'd #### you any way they can. I don't think that's changed much with the bad economy.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Paul Daniels