Debate heats up: Capitalism vs. Socialism

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

You were obviously never one of those kids and couldn't possibly understand the situation my father was going through. You really make me sick to think letting children suffer in your own country is acceptable.

Making sheep sick is my specialty. Your welcome.

Define sheep, as I am a republican who generally hates socialism (except for health care for certain disadvantaged people) and I don't like Obama. I believe in Capitalism and giving everyone a chance to make it or break it. If you had read any of my other posts you would know that, so I'm really not sure where you come off with that comment.

So generally I was right then and you are a sheep of a failing big political party. The party that promised but never delivered. The so called compassionate right wingers. They also believe in big government but just in a different way.

I have no problems with helping the less than brilliant ones in our society but more on the state level at the most and on a local level. The Federal government has no business in our affairs. No you are a true sheep. Baaaaaaa Baaaaaa

[S and S 12]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

You were obviously never one of those kids and couldn't possibly understand the situation my father was going through. You really make me sick to think letting children suffer in your own country is acceptable.

Making sheep sick is my specialty. Your welcome.

Define sheep, as I am a republican who generally hates socialism (except for health care for certain disadvantaged people) and I don't like Obama. I believe in Capitalism and giving everyone a chance to make it or break it. If you had read any of my other posts you would know that, so I'm really not sure where you come off with that comment.

So generally I was right then and you are a sheep of a failing big political party. The party that promised but never delivered. The so called compassionate right wingers. They also believe in big government but just in a different way.

I have no problems with helping the less than brilliant ones in our society but more on the state level at the most and on a local level. The Federal government has no business in our affairs. No you are a true sheep. Baaaaaaa Baaaaaa

Yes, I guess you could say that about all ex-military since we followed orders. I have no problem with that.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

[S and S 12]

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Hey everybody. We do not have to make sound decisions or think ahead about our actions as we have unlimited amount of hard working family people that do make the right choices taxes to feed on. Yeehaw.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

Oh ok. We now control peoples bodies and they have to do as we say. Can we also tell them when to breathe? This Socialism is fun huh?

[S and S 12]

Hey everybody. We do not have to make sound decisions or think ahead about our actions as we have unlimited amount of hard working family people that do make the right choices taxes to feed on. Yeehaw.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

Oh ok. We now control peoples bodies and they have to do as we say. Can we also tell them when to breathe? This Socialism is fun huh?

I guess you didn't get my humor as obviously we would never force birth control on people in this country, nor would I agree with it. I was being sarcastic. You are so full of it, I though you might catch it in someone else, I see I was wrong.

Oh, I'm really happy to inform you that your tax dollars are going to pay for my medical expenses for the rest of my life. I hope you feel good about that

Edited March 8, 2009 by S and S

[luckytxn 2,265]

Hey everybody. We do not have to make sound decisions or think ahead about our actions as we have unlimited amount of hard working family people that do make the right choices taxes to feed on. Yeehaw.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

Oh ok. We now control peoples bodies and they have to do as we say. Can we also tell them when to breathe? This Socialism is fun huh?

I guess you didn't get my humor as obviously we would never force birth control on people in this country, nor would I agree with it. I was being sarcastic. You are so full of it, I though you might catch it in someone else, I see I was wrong.

Oh, I'm really happy to inform you that your tax dollars are going to pay for my medical expenses for the rest of my life. I hope you feel good about that

Actually my tax dollars are going to pay the huge Federal bureacracy that is going to give you sub standard health care. I am sure a Socialist like you feels great about that as it should.

[S and S 12]

Actually my tax dollars are going to pay the huge Federal bureacracy that is going to give you sub standard health care. I am sure a Socialist like you feels great about that as it should.

I have never felt it was substandard health care and I am not socialist by the way. I don't agree to socialism as I already pointed out to you before. Even my idea about health care had only a small factor of socialism in it. There was plenty of capitalism in it too.

Of course, I did earn my health care. It wasn't handed to me on a silver platter.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Actually my tax dollars are going to pay the huge Federal bureacracy that is going to give you sub standard health care. I am sure a Socialist like you feels great about that as it should.

I have never felt it was substandard health care and I am not socialist by the way. I don't agree to socialism as I already pointed out to you before. Even my idea about health care had only a small factor of socialism in it. There was plenty of capitalism in it too.

Of course, I did earn my health care. It wasn't handed to me on a silver platter.

You say you aren't Socialist but you speak like you are. That is ok as your party is really the same as the Dems. They are both big government political parties.

And of course you also act like you are the only one that ever served in the military. Many of us has also. If you want to be Socialist then just come out and say so. Thefre is no dishonor in it but to be dishonest about it.............

[S and S 12]

Actually my tax dollars are going to pay the huge Federal bureacracy that is going to give you sub standard health care. I am sure a Socialist like you feels great about that as it should.

I have never felt it was substandard health care and I am not socialist by the way. I don't agree to socialism as I already pointed out to you before. Even my idea about health care had only a small factor of socialism in it. There was plenty of capitalism in it too.

Of course, I did earn my health care. It wasn't handed to me on a silver platter.

You say you aren't Socialist but you speak like you are. That is ok as your party is really the same as the Dems. They are both big government political parties.

And of course you also act like you are the only one that ever served in the military. Many of us has also. If you want to be Socialist then just come out and say so. Thefre is no dishonor in it but to be dishonest about it.............

Give me some socialist principles outside of health care as I am sure I don't agree with them. What does that make me if I disagree on every point of socialism but one? Yet I agree with every point of capitalism but one? I think your confused, its okay.

I don't believe I am the only one who served in the military, have no fear there. Do you not use your veterans benifits then? This is assuming, of course, that you received an honorable discharge.

[HAL 9000 96]

I'll never be rich, I know that and accept that, but I don't have a problem with people who work hard to become rich. I don't think being rich necessarily makes you greedy, though they can go hand in hand. I'm a firm believer that if someone works hard then they deserve the money they earn so long as it is legal and they pay appropriate taxes. The thing is that under socialism, the chance to go from being poor to rich is much less. If the rich must pay too much taxes, like in past time where it could be more than 90 percent, then they put a lot less back into their company which means they hire less people, thus creating less jobs. It can be a vicious cycle.

Perhaps because under socialist economics, attaining innumerable and ridiculous excess in the hands of a few is not the primary goal... rather... it is a more fair guarantee that the most members of a society can attain not just a comfortable level of living but one where survival does not depend on the contributions to the economy of a select few.

In reality a wise political system should incorporate aspects of both capitalist and socialist economics in order to avoid the disasters we currently see before us due in large part to too much of one thing: greed.

So any decent person who makes more money than they need should just hand it over immediately to the government or poor, otherwise they are being greedy?

Did I say or imply that?

Hint: No.

Is there anyone here for Socialism?

I am if I can get lots of free stuff for doing nothing. But we already have socialism, paying for kids I never had the fun of making, extra money in my electric and gas bill for people that cannot afford it. Extra money for health insurance for those that don't pay, extra taxes for WICK, extra taxes for that idiot building inspector, extra taxes for police that run around and ticket everyone, and the list goes on and on. Never got a dime from the government, not even my VA benefits due to some phony fire. If I have to work my a$ off so can everyone else.

Exactly what is socialism? And why is it considered new?

A collective ownership for the most part, or as some say the stepping stone to communism. Its a idea that through collective ownership(such as housing) no one will go with out. It may sound good but its not very realistic. Keep in mind too that there is different levels of socialism.

Collective ownership would be communism, by definition. Europe works a little different historically, for the most part, than the US does. Socialism is not that far from the way Europe has been historically governed. You can still practice Socialism, and let the market set prices. Many countries in the rest of the world, have command economies, without being Socialist, where prices are set by a central authority, and not by the market. There is a huge mix of possibilities out there.

Socialism and communism are ideological doctrines that have many similarities as well as many differences. It is difficult to discern the true differences between socialism and communism, as various societies have tried different types of both systems

One difference between socialism and communism is that socialism is mainly an economic system, while communism is both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control.

I don't think you get it much.

Sorry... but huh?

I don't think you caught the analogy. Try again.

[HAL 9000 96]

Hey everybody. We do not have to make sound decisions or think ahead about our actions as we have unlimited amount of hard working family people that do make the right choices taxes to feed on. Yeehaw.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

Oh ok. We now control peoples bodies and they have to do as we say. Can we also tell them when to breathe? This Socialism is fun huh?

Isn't that what most Republicans want to do with women's reporductive rights anyway?

[sj5 4]

My husband blew $24,000 to replaced his old pace maker(too young to have pacemaker). I'm curious if he is going to get it for free in 6 to 10 years from now when it's time to replace it.

Edited March 8, 2009 by sj5

[luckytxn 2,265]

Hey everybody. We do not have to make sound decisions or think ahead about our actions as we have unlimited amount of hard working family people that do make the right choices taxes to feed on. Yeehaw.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?

Trust me there are plenty of people willing to take them in. If we give a safety net to any moron incompetent to have kids then they will continue to have kids over and over. For sure they should not be rewarded for being stupid. So I take it you want to just care for anyone that makes stupid decisions? Hand over hard working peoples taxes so they can continue to go on and keep bringing more incompetently raised kids.

Actually, I would prefer we put them on birth control rather than paying for other people to take care of their kids.

Oh ok. We now control peoples bodies and they have to do as we say. Can we also tell them when to breathe? This Socialism is fun huh?

Isn't that what most Republicans want to do with women's reporductive rights anyway?

Exactly and also both parties say what we can put into our bodies also by saying no drugs at all and smoking pot in the privacy of our home is illegal and go to great lengths to see if we are doing so. Our bodies belong to the government and we really have limited say what we can do with it.

[luckytxn 2,265]

My husband blew $24,000 to replaced his old pace maker(too young to have pacemaker). I'm curious if he is going to get it for free in 6 to 10 years from now when it's time to replace it.

More than likely it will be some faceless Federal bureacrat will decide if he does or not and as for the cost they will say go get more alternative info.