Debate heats up: Capitalism vs. Socialism

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

I brought up my own idea on health care on page one of this thread, but no one responded to it. I would be curious to see what people think, though I'm certainly no expert on health care, it is just a possible idea.

i do that at times, and give most everyone a great way to get free health care

get your free health care here!

[S and S 12]

I brought up my own idea on health care on page one of this thread, but no one responded to it. I would be curious to see what people think, though I'm certainly no expert on health care, it is just a possible idea.

i do that at times, and give most everyone a great way to get free health care

get your free health care here!

Been there, done that, and got a whole bunch of t-shirts. At some point we have to think of other ways as well. I know what you mean though.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I brought up my own idea on health care on page one of this thread, but no one responded to it. I would be curious to see what people think, though I'm certainly no expert on health care, it is just a possible idea.

i do that at times, and give most everyone a great way to get free health care

get your free health care here!

What happened to the old cool ads, like, "We do more before 9 am than most people do all day."

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

Enjoy what is now considered the best health care system in the world while it lasts. The health care that Canadians pay a premium to get into and the rest of the world are in awe of.

Edited March 8, 2009 by luckytxn

[S and S 12]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Edited March 8, 2009 by luckytxn

[S and S 12]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

You were obviously never one of those kids and couldn't possibly understand the situation my father was going through. You really make me sick to think letting children suffer in your own country is acceptable.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

You were obviously never one of those kids and couldn't possibly understand the situation my father was going through. You really make me sick to think letting children suffer in your own country is acceptable.

Making sheep sick is my specialty. Your welcome.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I don't like socialism in many ways. It gives the government too much power, yet I do have some socialistic ideas for health care. Too many people are suffering because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Only the very poor can get some of their medical needs covered by the government. One of the reasons health care costs so much is the amount of money it takes to get people through medical school. Doctors (unless they came from rich families) tend to finish school with well over 100K in college debt. I think it would be great if we could set up government ran hospitals throughout the country, maybe one or two per city depending on size, and employ them with people that the government paid for their college. It could be a grant for their education expenses with the stipulation that they must work in the government operated hospitals at a lower wage for a set amount of years. This could help the poorer college students that don't want to be saddled with high college debts. Then you offer these hospitals to people within certain income levels that can't afford private health insurance. This way you still have privately owned hospitals that care for those with insurance or who can afford it. Just an idea. I am no expert, but I think it could work.

I agree that it would give them way too much power. Also could you imagine having every aspect of your life micro managed.

Actually, I can, but that was because I used to be in the military. I hated asking for permission to even go visit my family on the weekend even though I wasn't working those days anyway.

Thank you for your service. Are you considering going back?

I would hate that too.

[S and S 12]

I don't like socialism in many ways. It gives the government too much power, yet I do have some socialistic ideas for health care. Too many people are suffering because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Only the very poor can get some of their medical needs covered by the government. One of the reasons health care costs so much is the amount of money it takes to get people through medical school. Doctors (unless they came from rich families) tend to finish school with well over 100K in college debt. I think it would be great if we could set up government ran hospitals throughout the country, maybe one or two per city depending on size, and employ them with people that the government paid for their college. It could be a grant for their education expenses with the stipulation that they must work in the government operated hospitals at a lower wage for a set amount of years. This could help the poorer college students that don't want to be saddled with high college debts. Then you offer these hospitals to people within certain income levels that can't afford private health insurance. This way you still have privately owned hospitals that care for those with insurance or who can afford it. Just an idea. I am no expert, but I think it could work.

I agree that it would give them way too much power. Also could you imagine having every aspect of your life micro managed.

Actually, I can, but that was because I used to be in the military. I hated asking for permission to even go visit my family on the weekend even though I wasn't working those days anyway.

Thank you for your service. Are you considering going back?

I would hate that too.

No, I want to have a family now. Some women in the military could have a baby and deploy to Iraq 6 months later, but I couldn't do that. Now its time to focus on my needs as I gave ten years of my life to my country. Plus I get free college because of my service though I'm sure some people would have a problem with that even though I risked my life for it.

[S and S 12]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

You were obviously never one of those kids and couldn't possibly understand the situation my father was going through. You really make me sick to think letting children suffer in your own country is acceptable.

Making sheep sick is my specialty. Your welcome.

Define sheep, as I am a republican who generally hates socialism (except for health care for certain disadvantaged people) and I don't like Obama. I believe in Capitalism and giving everyone a chance to make it or break it. If you had read any of my other posts you would know that, so I'm really not sure where you come off with that comment.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

[S and S 12]

I would love to know when the time was that all parents planned to have children and made sure these kids would have adequate health care. Not only that but anyone who has looked at the foster home/juvenile shelters situation would know there is no place for all the unwanted kids to go, much less the ones that the parents have no health insurance. When I was born my parents owned a home, both had good jobs and no reason to believe that would change, but it did through no fault of their own.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks for the textbook definition, Bill. Now I'd like to know what Shelby thinks - whether Americans want a USSR style socialism, or the Western European socialism that exists today? If a majority of Americans are in favor of national health care, for example, does that make Americans, socialists?

The private health insurance industry we have today in this country has failed us. It is bloated, expensive, exclusive, and bureaucratic, which makes any reference to government run health insurance as undoubtedly having those qualities humorous. Private health insurance has had it's chance to prove itself...now it's time to different something different...a change is needed.

If the majority of Americans want and get national health care then yes we will have become Socialists. Once this so called change comes then it will never go away. To make it work like in Canada they will have to nationalize all health care and become a command and supply health economy. From what I remember of Canada their health care system sucked big time.

Many thanks to all the sheep for turning us into a Socialist country. It will be funny when they realize the bill for all this Socialism. Right now the rich pay most of the taxes. They are now due to pay even more. After that the middle class will start paying more. Once the bureacracy becomes embedded then the real tax hurt will come and the middle class then will become burdened.

It sounded good to the sheep who bought this ####### that the Robin Hood method of taking from the upper classes and giving to the poorer was a great idea. Of course us elder folks know what happens when the government takes a bigger role. Year after year the taxes will increase as they have to. Good going sheep. Think this visa process was fun? wait till you have to go through the government to get health care.

This is why my idea was a compromise rather than handing full control to the government. As a child I had no health care and through no fault of my own. It wasn't like I could go out and get a job. We fell under that income bracket that didn't allow for medicaid, but my father didn't make enough money for health insurance. This meant I never went to the doctor until my temperature reached 104 degrees. I suffered through many sicknesses with no medicine or care. Sure, you could blame my father and say he should have done better, but is it fair to make the children suffer too? Under the current system, many children are going without health insurance and some are dying because of it. I don't have as much sympathy for the adults who are able bodied and can work, but to just let children suffer is wrong to me.

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

[S and S 12]

Actually yes it is fair to let the kids suffer also. There was a time when adults planned on having kids and did what it took to insure that they were ready BEFORE they had the kids. At one time adults took responsibility and thought their actions through. If the parents can't take care of their kids then give them up to others that can. It is not society that should take care of idiots and others who are incompetent.

Kids are innocent and should be protected, suffering is not acceptable. Now if you want to go out and shoot the parents well then....

Exactly. Kids are innocent and should be taken from any parent not fit to care for and given to competent people that will care for properly.

Exactly where do you propose to find these competent people to take care of them with so many kids sitting in shelters and foster homes or the streets already?