America's attempts to appease "Muslim opinion" are depraved and suicidal.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't mind free speech to the extend that it doesn't constitute a weapon of advocating violence, and that it can't be used to promote hate or some forms of everyday bigotry. Free speech is OK for me when it can teach tolerance. I disagree of a legal system that does not punish hate speech, and where there is no balancing between speech and respect.

Would you consider publishing pictures of the Prophet as acceptable 'free speech'?

That really depends. Context defines acceptibility.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I don't mind free speech to the extend that it doesn't constitute a weapon of advocating violence, and that it can't be used to promote hate or some forms of everyday bigotry. Free speech is OK for me when it can teach tolerance. I disagree of a legal system that does not punish hate speech, and where there is no balancing between speech and respect.

Would you consider publishing pictures of the Prophet as acceptable 'free speech'?

That really depends. Context defines acceptibility.

Just a cartoon portrait. Nothing offensive.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't mind free speech to the extend that it doesn't constitute a weapon of advocating violence, and that it can't be used to promote hate or some forms of everyday bigotry. Free speech is OK for me when it can teach tolerance. I disagree of a legal system that does not punish hate speech, and where there is no balancing between speech and respect.

Would you consider publishing pictures of the Prophet as acceptable 'free speech'?

That really depends. Context defines acceptibility.

Just a cartoon portrait. Nothing offensive.

To you. Again it depends on your perspective. No communicative text is 'value free'.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This I think is relevant here. Posted by a member of another web forum.

It's a fine line, of course, between going out deliberately to upset people (Koran toilet paper) and stating your opinions but it's an unstated principle in democracies that the sensibilities of those who are historically the weakest groups should be given more right to object than those who have historically been the most powerful. That's the principle (simple fairness) which we have yet to enshrine in a useful law, but which we are applying when we consider the sensibilities of Jews, Moslems, black people and women, where we don't take them so much into account for most Nordic whites. We are not 'giving in' to minority pressures, we are accepting that they have for too long been insulted and harmed with impunity.

The story to go with that quote:

German Businessman offers Koran toilet paper

DUESSELDORF, Germany (Reuters) - A German court on Thursday convicted a businessman of insulting Islam by printing the word "Koran" on toilet paper and offering it to mosques.

The 61-year-old man, identified only as Manfred van H., was given a one-year jail sentence, suspended for five years, and ordered to complete 300 hours of community service, a district court in the western German town of Luedinghausen ruled.

The conviction comes after a Danish newspaper printed cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad -- sparking violent protests around the world from Muslims who saw the images as sacrilegious and an attack on their beliefs.

Manfred van H. printed out sheets of toilet paper bearing the word "Koran" shortly after a group of Muslims carried out a series of bomb attacks in London in July 2005. He sent the paper to German television stations, magazines and some 15 mosques.

Prosecutors said that in an accompanying letter Manfred van H. called Islam's holy book a "cookbook for terrorists".

He also offered his toilet paper for sale on the Internet at a price of 4 euros ($4.76) per roll, saying the proceeds would go toward a "memorial to all the victims of Islamic terrorism".

The maximum sentence for insulting religious beliefs under the German criminal code is three years in prison.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Fishdude

[nina1 0]

I am truly saddened to see that such a wonderful website is used by some to express their political/religious views. It's also a shock for me to find out that 6 out of 10 people have strong negative views about Muslims.

The education our children have begins with what we teach to ourselves. If we believe that it is OKAY to judge a WHOLE NATION/RELIGION/RACE/CULTURE/SEXE because of a few people's bad actions, then we are fooling ourselves. We cannot teach our children that it's acceptable to hate ALL blacks because one boy hit our child. We also do not teach them to hate Europeans because of a Timothey McVeigh in Oklahoma. Similarily, we cannot hate or say negative comments about Muslims as a PEOPLE, just because a few are committing crimes weather in the middle east, or outside.

It is wrong and I condemn whoever is responsible for crimes in Iraq (bombings, beheadings, torture, rape..), as well as who is responsible for the violence committed because of the cartoons.

True Muslims DO NOT believe in the killing of innocent people, weather Christian, Jew, Sunni, Shia, Black, Disabled, OR ANY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING, OR EVEN ANIMAL. Nor do they believe in protesting by means of violence and arson.

Doing things in the name of God (Allah) has become for some people a WAY to CONVINCE themselves that their WRONGDOING is actually RIGHT. They call themselves "Muslim" but in reality, they are a disgrace and a shame to any real Muslim.

I try not to blame some people when they generalize against Muslims, because I know most of their information is from T.V. and for the most part, it is also negative, but I do not pardon them for not educating themselves before making wrongful assumptions.

"Freedom of speech" is beautiful in itself and seems so simple, yet most people don't seem to grasp it. We do not allow anybody to insult our mother (for example), yet again, we stand strong in saying that Muslims are hooligans for taking offense to a comic about their Prophet. Is this not hypocritical? I beg for someone to tell me that they think it is "freedom of speech" if someone dares insult their mother, let alone their religious leader (buddha, Moses, Jesus..)

Once again, I am against the violence that occured during the protests, but I am also against some of you who said "It was just a comic!"

thanks to all, and i hope the admins will have tighter rules about religion/race/... discussions, as they do not belong on this website.

[mawilson 2,133]

But let's follow your brilliant scheme here for a second: Close the embassies. Thus, no visas. So, then we can go ahead and cancel all flights to and from those places? Deny landing rights to their airlines here. Don't help those in need. Don't trade. Send back whoever came here from there. Isolate them and ourselves. Move back into caves. Where does it end?

The isolationist approach worked well against the Soviet Union. It will work against the Arabs, too.

[pri 0]

Nina,

if you read the earlier post it says Quran preaches peace and forgives even the offenders. so this is basically the emotions attached towards religion and an upscale threatening by many Muslims to behead such a person who draws cartoons.. Now how many have really seen prohpet Mohammed it just a image there is Jesus on the cross which is just an image or an Idol..

The true one resides within everybody and one should have the eye to see

"if you cant see God in all you cant see God at All"

[Scott & Lai 12]

The education our children have begins with what we teach to ourselves. If we believe that it is OKAY to judge a WHOLE NATION/RELIGION/RACE/CULTURE/SEXE because of a few people's bad actions, then we are fooling ourselves. We cannot teach our children that it's acceptable to hate ALL blacks because one boy hit our child. We also do not teach them to hate Europeans because of a Timothey McVeigh in Oklahoma. Similarily, we cannot hate or say negative comments about Muslims as a PEOPLE, just because a few are committing crimes weather in the middle east, or outside.

I don't believe anyone her is judging all Muslims as a people.

[nina1 0]

Pri, in the Quran, just like in the Bible, just like in the Torah, God forgives.. Who does he forgive? Obviously the sinners, otherwise there would be no reason for him to forgive in the first place. BUT God does not forgive just anybody! Why is there a heaven and earth and a judgement day then if EVERYONE as u seem to think is forgiven?

We all see God as being fair. I don't think there is any one who can deny that. Can you or anybody reading this honnestly say (keeping in mind the concept of PEACE WHICH U MENTIONED), that God forgives those that kill the innocent or that kill the innocent while saying God's name?!? That's ridiculous! There is no such religion, not even Islam!

Please inform yourself, and don't misinterpret the meaning of the word "forgive".

[Scott & Lai 12]

True Muslims DO NOT believe in the killing of innocent people, weather Christian, Jew, Sunni, Shia, Black, Disabled, OR ANY INNOCENT HUMAN BEING, OR EVEN ANIMAL. Nor do they believe in protesting by means of violence and arson.

Doing things in the name of God (Allah) has become for some people a WAY to CONVINCE themselves that their WRONGDOING is actually RIGHT. They call themselves "Muslim" but in reality, they are a disgrace and a shame to any real Muslim.

I try not to blame some people when they generalize against Muslims, because I know most of their information is from T.V. and for the most part, it is also negative, but I do not pardon them for not educating themselves before making wrongful assumptions.

"Freedom of speech" is beautiful in itself and seems so simple, yet most people don't seem to grasp it. We do not allow anybody to insult our mother (for example), yet again, we stand strong in saying that Muslims are hooligans for taking offense to a comic about their Prophet. Is this not hypocritical? I beg for someone to tell me that they think it is "freedom of speech" if someone dares insult their mother, let alone their religious leader (buddha, Moses, Jesus..)

Perhaps so, but then, there are a he11 of a lot of false Muslims. And true Islam may condemn the insulting of Judaism and Christianity, but in Muslim lands Jews and Christians do not have the same freedom (if any) to practice their religion as do their Muslim countrymen. Religions may not be insulted or attacked, but attacking the practitioners of non-Muslim religions is apparently acceptable.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I don't mind free speech to the extend that it doesn't constitute a weapon of advocating violence, and that it can't be used to promote hate or some forms of everyday bigotry. Free speech is OK for me when it can teach tolerance. I disagree of a legal system that does not punish hate speech, and where there is no balancing between speech and respect.

Would you consider publishing pictures of the Prophet as acceptable 'free speech'?

That really depends. Context defines acceptibility.

Just a cartoon portrait. Nothing offensive.

To you. Again it depends on your perspective. No communicative text is 'value free'.

Thanks for the 'value free' response.

How about a cartoon of the Prophet feeding the poor?

[Scott & Lai 12]

religion/race/... discussions, as they do not belong on this website.

That is your opinion, which I hope you realize not everyone shares. You are free to post or not in religious/political topics. But if you don't like such topics, why read or post in them?

[pri 0]

Nina,

no offence just my piece of thght, it was not only muslims that was referred. forgive is for every sinner but there are ways that one goes through something called repentance.. hey and for yr IQ level god does forgive every1 even you.. so relax and dont take it personal its just a blog

Edited March 4, 2006 by pri

[nina1 0]

okay, pri, did u see me going burzurk for u to tell me to relax? Why is it okay for everyone to say THEIR opinion, but once i say MINE, then i need to relax? Also, don't insult my intelligence, because i did not insult your's!

Scott & Lai, i stand by my belief that such topics don't belong on this website. And for the record, i was not even aware that there was an "off topic" forum, until today. I came through THIS topic as i was on the Adjustement of Status category INFORMING MYSELF and saw at the bottom of my screen other supposedly related topics, which included the one we are having this talk in..

As for, "Religions may not be insulted or attacked, but attacking the practitioners of non-Muslim religions is apparently acceptable." Did you read my first post when i said that Jews/christians and everyone else are all equal in the true religion?? What is a practitioner anyway?

And as for "Perhaps so, but then, there are a he11 of a lot of false Muslims"... I agree. But why is it so shocking to you? In the real bible, christians aren't supposed to drink alcohol. Do u see me saying "Well, there are a hell of a lot of fake christians!" COME ON!!

[pri 0]

nina,

you need to have a chill pill and fake Christians or Muslims is not the issue.. need more reading