319b denied

[T and M 1]

Yep, I posted a link a few weeks back that USCIS recommends to file 319b cases with the Washington DC field office because they're specialized in these cases, while you might experience delays with other offices. I guess that is a good recommendation. But of course it came too late for you since you filed in October already.

Well, we went down to Atlanta and were let into the office and waiting around for 4 hours to receive an ad-hoc hearing to review the denial. Basically, we explained that the denial was based on the mistaken idea that we are not leaving to return abroad until "April 2009." In point of fact, we are leaving on March 29, which is well within the 45 day period required by law to receive naturalization under 319b. We explained that we offered our IO a copy of our flight itinerary during the interview of February 12, but he did not put it in the file. He told us that everything looked fine, that we did not need any more evidence, that he would call if he needed anything else, and that we should return at the end of the week to take the oath.

Today the other officer basically said, it looks like you might be right, but I cannot review any new evidence other than what the other IO put in the file. I said, but HERE IT IS!!! He COULD have put it in the file, but he said he didn't need it. He said my wife had passed. So she said that she could not reverse his decision based on new information....indeed she said that she could not even look at any information that the previous IO did not include in the file. She said our only recourse would be to file a N-336, which costs $605. It is a request for a hearing to consider new evidence.

We would do this, except that it will take months and by then we will no longer qualify under 319b, because my work abroad will be winding up next summer. For 319b you have to show that you are regularly stationed abroad for at least one year from the date of naturalization.

We have therefore failed, our N-400 was denied, and we will apply for a re-entry permit so that my wife will not lose her Green Card while I am doing business abroad. We will come back to the States in the summer of 2010, and then the proverbial "clock" will start and we will apply for naturalization in early 2012.

Bottom line: file 319b applications in Washington, DC. We did ATL, b/c my family lives here so we could stay with them for a few weeks and have a baby. Bad idea. We should have just gone through Washington.

Second lesson: don't ever believe the IO when he says you passed, I don't need any more evidence of anything. Force him to put everything in the file. Everything you want in that file, b/c if he changes his mind after the fact, you can't use ANYTHING to reverse the decision that is not in that file without filing a very expensive and very time-consuming appeal via N-336.

Third lesson: until you take your oath ANYTHING can happen. Don't count on anything, and bottom line: don't believe the IO's.

We are just done with this whole thing. We can wait on citizenship. Not a huge deal. A re-entry permit is fine.

[Stella08 0]

Thomas and Milena,

wow, this is crazy. I mean you did everything right and the officer made a mistake by not putting your flight itinerary in your file. And now YOU have to pay for this mistake? Of course one could say that maybe you didn't have the itinerary with you during the interview. But he also told you that your wife had passed and was lined up for oath! If papers would have been missing, wouldn't he have requested them? And why do they send out a denial right away instead of asking for additional evidence first? All this sounds just doesn't sound right. You fulfilled all the requirements for 319b and still you just get denied and don't have any way to get this fixed, unless you spend lots of money and time on the case. How come you get held responsible for this mess? And no, there would have been no way you should have known better or done anything different. I mean, of course you rely on the immigration officers to know the procedures.

Well, I hope your wife gets her reentry permit approved and you can do another N-400 journey in three years. Good luck to you guys!

[T and M 1]

Thomas and Milena,

wow, this is crazy. I mean you did everything right and the officer made a mistake by not putting your flight itinerary in your file. And now YOU have to pay for this mistake? Of course one could say that maybe you didn't have the itinerary with you during the interview. But he also told you that your wife had passed and was lined up for oath! If papers would have been missing, wouldn't he have requested them? And why do they send out a denial right away instead of asking for additional evidence first? All this sounds just doesn't sound right. You fulfilled all the requirements for 319b and still you just get denied and don't have any way to get this fixed, unless you spend lots of money and time on the case. How come you get held responsible for this mess? And no, there would have been no way you should have known better or done anything different. I mean, of course you rely on the immigration officers to know the procedures.

Well, I hope your wife gets her reentry permit approved and you can do another N-400 journey in three years. Good luck to you guys!

Thanks Stella. Our Congressman's office is sending a letter asking them to re-consider their denial. Might go to our Senators too. Will let you guys know if anything changes. There is actually a chance we might file a new 319b application once we get back overseas. After this experience, we are just a bit exhausted. Bottom line: file 319b through Washington, DC. They know the law. Elsewhere they do not, and the applicant ends up paying for this.

[Stella08 0]

Now I have to ask another question. If your wife can't apply for naturalization under section 319a until early 2012 that would mean that she didn't become a permanent resident until early 2009. How come she was able to apply for naturalization under 319b in October 2008 then? I thought you have to be permanent resident to do so. Or am I off with my math?

[NickD 203]

Had a foul up with my step daughters conditional green card that my attorney took care of, no extra charge for me, a foul up with the I-751 and the oath letter that my senator took care of, but called the USCIS while I was on hold, they must have special phone numbers not made available to the public. In any of these three cases, I was helpless and could get better results by talking to a wall.

Yes, call your senators office, they all have specialists with immigration issues, and ask them nicely to make an inquiry for you while expressing the need for expediency. Senator Fiengold is on the finance committee for the USCIS, that really helped. You seem very good at expressing yourself, that should help also.

This is one time I will wish someone, good luck. Good luck.

[T and M 1]

Now I have to ask another question. If your wife can't apply for naturalization under section 319a until early 2012 that would mean that she didn't become a permanent resident until early 2009. How come she was able to apply for naturalization under 319b in October 2008 then? I thought you have to be permanent resident to do so. Or am I off with my math?

18 months physical presence requirement. If we get back to the States after my work abroad in September 2010, and add 18 months to that, that's early 2012. Perhaps we can make the application in late 2011, but she will not be eligible until early 2012, as per the 18 month physical presence requirement for 319a applications.

[T and M 1]

Had a foul up with my step daughters conditional green card that my attorney took care of, no extra charge for me, a foul up with the I-751 and the oath letter that my senator took care of, but called the USCIS while I was on hold, they must have special phone numbers not made available to the public. In any of these three cases, I was helpless and could get better results by talking to a wall.

Yes, call your senators office, they all have specialists with immigration issues, and ask them nicely to make an inquiry for you while expressing the need for expediency. Senator Fiengold is on the finance committee for the USCIS, that really helped. You seem very good at expressing yourself, that should help also.

This is one time I will wish someone, good luck. Good luck.

Thanks NickD. Will get the Senator's on the case, too. Congressman's office says that if they can't get it reversed within the next 27 days, a formal appeal is the only option. That takes many months. It would be better to just re-apply under 319b, they said. That would really be depressing.

Thanks for your words, though, NickD. It's good to hear that the US Congresspeople helped you out. Hope we will be able to say the same. I'm a little down though at the moment.

[Stella08 0]

Now I have to ask another question. If your wife can't apply for naturalization under section 319a until early 2012 that would mean that she didn't become a permanent resident until early 2009. How come she was able to apply for naturalization under 319b in October 2008 then? I thought you have to be permanent resident to do so. Or am I off with my math?

18 months physical presence requirement. If we get back to the States after my work abroad in September 2010, and add 18 months to that, that's early 2012. Perhaps we can make the application in late 2011, but she will not be eligible until early 2012, as per the 18 month physical presence requirement for 319a applications.

So does her time abroad now count as a break in residency? But then she couldn't apply until she has been back for at least three years and physically present for at least 18 months, right? All this is so complicated...

[T and M 1]

Now I have to ask another question. If your wife can't apply for naturalization under section 319a until early 2012 that would mean that she didn't become a permanent resident until early 2009. How come she was able to apply for naturalization under 319b in October 2008 then? I thought you have to be permanent resident to do so. Or am I off with my math?

18 months physical presence requirement. If we get back to the States after my work abroad in September 2010, and add 18 months to that, that's early 2012. Perhaps we can make the application in late 2011, but she will not be eligible until early 2012, as per the 18 month physical presence requirement for 319a applications.

So does her time abroad now count as a break in residency? But then she couldn't apply until she has been back for at least three years and physically present for at least 18 months, right? All this is so complicated...

Thanks for mentioning this. It looks like you are right. But if we fly back to the states every 5 and a half months while I am posted abroad, perhaps she can maintain continuous residence and apply in early 2012.

Maybe it will be reversed.