Taxes

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Following up on an earlier item, there are obviously grumblings from some of the less progressive members of the Senate Democratic caucus about President Obama's budget blueprint. Specifically, though, there's apparently one area of unique concern.

Moderate and conservative Democrats in the Senate are starting to choke over the massive spending and

tax increases

in President Barack Obama's budget plans and have begun plotting to increase their influence over the agenda of a president who is turning out to be much more liberal than they are. [...]

As for the

tax increases

on high-income earners called for in Obama's plan, [sen. Evan Bayh (R-Ind.)] said, "I do think that before we raise revenue, we first should look to see if there are ways we can cut back on spending." [...]

Obama has proposed

an array of tax hikes

that have been greeted with a chilly reception from Republicans and moderate Democrats. [...]

"I have major concerns about

trying to raise taxes

in the midst of a downturn of the economy," said [sen. Ben] Nelson, the conservative Nebraska Democrat.

Ezra Klein responds to this by asking the right question: "If the majority of Americans are facing a tax decrease, then are "taxes" going up?"

Well, no, probably not. Obama's economic stimulus package included one of the largest, if not the very largest, tax cut in American history. His broader economic plan does exactly what was promised during the campaign -- it cuts taxes on the middle class, and raises taxes on the wealthy. The tax increase on the wealthy wouldn't kick in until 2011, and simply returns the top rate to where it was before Bush/Cheney took office.

Many seem to have internalized conservative, conventional thinking on taxes -- Obama wants to "raise" them, centrists and Republicans don't like the idea. But the details matter here, and it's simply inaccurate to characterize the White House plan as a tax increase when most Americans are getting a tax cut.

Maybe someone should let Sens. Bayh and Nelson know.

Post Script: Ezra also hammers home a point for the Democratic centrists to consider: "Does Ben Nelson think universal health care is more or less important than keeping itemized deductions for filers making $250,000 a year at 35 percent rather than 28 percent? Because that's the actual question at hand. No one is attempting to 'raise taxes.' They're attempting to 'raise taxes in order to pay for things.' The relevant question, then, is not whether Nelson opposes raising taxes, but whether he opposes raising taxes more or less than he opposes not having the thing the new revenues would pay for."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Intellectual Young'un Ezra Klein Thinks World of Tim Russert

Famous-for-DC American Prospect blogger Ezra Klein usually keeps it clean on his lefty blog, but on his Twitter micro-blogging side project account, he's just another sick ###### Wonketteer.

UPDATE: Ezra Klein responds…"Spiky acid-tipped #######." I think I'm gonna use that one. I hope for his sake it has nothing to do with a scarring Andrew Sullivan encounter.

UPDATE: Ezra Klein e-mails back to say it was "an inside joke with friends posted without context on Wonkette, I regret that it was made public, and that, for the record, I believe Tim Russert's sex life should accord with his, and only his, preferences, whatever they may be."

He has now taken that crucial step of locking his Twitter page, where his secrets lay hidden forever…

[Ezra Klein's Twitter]

http://wonkette.com/345658/intellectual-yo...rt-%5Bupdate%5D

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That's nice, Bill. Now how does that negate the fact that Obama's tax plan is the biggest tax cut in history for most Americans?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

That's nice, Bill. Now how does that negate the fact that Obama's tax plan is the biggest tax cut in history for most Americans?

Cites, please.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That's nice, Bill. Now how does that negate the fact that Obama's tax plan is the biggest tax cut in history for most Americans?

Cites, please.

Seriously? Try Googling it.

Obama's economic stimulus package included one of the largest, if not the very largest, tax cut in American history. His broader economic plan does exactly what was promised during the campaign -- it cuts taxes on the middle class, and raises taxes on the wealthy. The tax increase on the wealthy wouldn't kick in until 2011, and simply returns the top rate to where it was before Bush/Cheney took office.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here, Bill...in case you don't want to bother searching:

Obama’s Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:

• Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.
• Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.
• Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.
• Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Under the Obama-Biden Plan:

• Middle class families will see their taxes cut -- and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama-Biden plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20 percent lower than they faced under President Reagan.
• Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest two percent of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s.
• The Obama-Biden plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The plan is a net tax cut -- his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/taxes/

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

That's nice, Bill. Now how does that negate the fact that Obama's tax plan is the biggest tax cut in history for most Americans?

Cites, please.

Seriously? Try Googling it.

Obama's economic stimulus package included one of the largest, if not the very largest, tax cut in American history. His broader economic plan does exactly what was promised during the campaign -- it cuts taxes on the middle class, and raises taxes on the wealthy. The tax increase on the wealthy wouldn't kick in until 2011, and simply returns the top rate to where it was before Bush/Cheney took office.

I am trying to understand how you got there from here, thats all!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Here, Bill...in case you don't want to bother searching:

Obama's Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:

• Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.
• Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.
• Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.
• Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Under the Obama-Biden Plan:

• Middle class families will see their taxes cut -- and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama-Biden plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20 percent lower than they faced under President Reagan.
• Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest two percent of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s.
• The Obama-Biden plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The plan is a net tax cut -- his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/taxes/

Fine, the cut is bigger than the one under Reagan. I am still waiting for you to support your statement. Only 42 more presidents to go!

[_Simpson_ 250]

so in a nutshell he is going to bend us over the counter and give us a candy bar to try and keep us happy.

I remember when Bush had his tax cuts, alot of democrats were saying things like "look King George is giving the peasants money" I hope to see the same faces talking like this about King Obama, Hey it could happen!!!

Edited March 4, 2009 by looking_up

[one...two...tree 2,762]

so in a nutshell he is going to bend us over the counter and give us a candy bar to try and keep us happy.

I remember when Bush had his tax cuts, alot of democrats were saying things like "look King George is giving the peasants money" I hope to see the same faces talking like this about King Obama, Hey it could happen!!!

Dubya earned his crowned by usurping his presidential powers, under the guise of being at war (with terrorism). Secondly, the bulk of his tax cuts went to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans, under the idea that the richest 2 percent of Americans will in turn create jobs for the other 98 percent of Americans. Well, even children know the ending to this fairytale.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Mister Fancypants

[_Simpson_ 250]

so in a nutshell he is going to bend us over the counter and give us a candy bar to try and keep us happy.

I remember when Bush had his tax cuts, alot of democrats were saying things like "look King George is giving the peasants money" I hope to see the same faces talking like this about King Obama, Hey it could happen!!!

Dubya earned his crowned by usurping his presidential powers, under the guise of being at war (with terrorism). Secondly, the bulk of his tax cuts went to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans, under the idea that the richest 2 percent of Americans will in turn create jobs for the other 98 percent of Americans. Well, even children know the ending to this fairytale.

The idea was that you give tax cuts back fairly. So if corporate Joe paid 100,000 in taxes he would get more back than plumber joe who didnt pay near as much, if he paid any. Considering the way the tax bracket system is set up the wealthiest 2 percent pay the bulk of it, so it makes sense that they would get the bulk back.

I dont mean to state my point and jet but I do have to get going, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Edited March 5, 2009 by looking_up

[Ban Hammer 13,355]

so in a nutshell he is going to bend us over the counter and give us a candy bar to try and keep us happy.

I remember when Bush had his tax cuts, alot of democrats were saying things like "look King George is giving the peasants money" I hope to see the same faces talking like this about King Obama, Hey it could happen!!!

Dubya earned his crowned by usurping his presidential powers, under the guise of being at war (with terrorism). Secondly, the bulk of his tax cuts went to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans, under the idea that the richest 2 percent of Americans will in turn create jobs for the other 98 percent of Americans. Well, even children know the ending to this fairytale.

The idea was that you give tax cuts back fairly. So if corporate Joe paid 100,000 in taxes he would get more back than plumber joe who didnt pay near as much, if he paid any. Considering the way the tax bracket system is set up the wealthiest 2 percent pay the bulk of it, so it makes sense that they would get the bulk back.

I dont mean to state my point and jet but I do have to get going, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

that would make sense, but when it comes to tax cuts the rich getting back more dollars is almost grounds for a riot it seems.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

so in a nutshell he is going to bend us over the counter and give us a candy bar to try and keep us happy.

I remember when Bush had his tax cuts, alot of democrats were saying things like "look King George is giving the peasants money" I hope to see the same faces talking like this about King Obama, Hey it could happen!!!

Dubya earned his crowned by usurping his presidential powers, under the guise of being at war (with terrorism). Secondly, the bulk of his tax cuts went to the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans, under the idea that the richest 2 percent of Americans will in turn create jobs for the other 98 percent of Americans. Well, even children know the ending to this fairytale.

The idea was that you give tax cuts back fairly. So if corporate Joe paid 100,000 in taxes he would get more back than plumber joe who didnt pay near as much, if he paid any. Considering the way the tax bracket system is set up the wealthiest 2 percent pay the bulk of it, so it makes sense that they would get the bulk back.

I dont mean to state my point and jet but I do have to get going, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

So you're saying that the tax rates during Reagan through Clinton were unfair and it wasn't until Dubya cut them for the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans did they become fair?

Edited March 5, 2009 by Mister Fancypants

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Anyone want to take a stab at what the tax rates were for the wealthiest Americans over the last century?

If you feel lost, you can looky here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/taxes/

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Anyone want to take a stab at what the tax rates were for the wealthiest Americans over the last century?

If you feel lost, you can looky here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/taxes/