RFE for evidence that qualifies us for the exemption to have met within the past two years

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

III. TRADITIONAL ARRANGED MARRIAGES:

A traditional arranged marriage is significantly distinct from that arranged within the mail-order bride industry. In the latter, men pay fees to the owners of mail-order businesses in order to meet women, who are often from outside their culture, and the families of the marrying parties are not typically involved. In the traditional arranged marriage, by contrast, the parents of the couple are customarily heavily involved in the decision-making process. Traditional arranged marriages encourage the considerations of family, culture, ethnicity, and religion. Fees are not generally paid, except when there are dowries. Sometimes matchmakers are consulted and hired to facilitate the process.

Arranged marriages often take place quickly and without any significant period of courtship. In some cultures there is no courtship whatsoever, making it difficult to document the bona fides of the relationship. Fortunately, most arranged marriages often involved elaborate engagement ceremonies or wedding rituals, which can be photographed and explained in detail. Additionally, an immigration attorney should never shy away from admitting that a marriage is arranged, but rather should emphasize the significance of such a marriage within certain traditional cultures. In rare instances, a U.S. party will want to petition for a future mate, sight unseen. Although proxy marriage is unavailable, it is possible to petition for a fiancé. There is an exception to the rule, “where there is extreme hardship or long established custom.”19 One important point about the fiancé visa is that the foreign fiancé cannot marry anyone except the petitioning party. It can happen that the U.S. fiancé backs out of the arrangement at the last moment, to be replaced by another. USCIS will not accept replacement spouses; the foreign fiancé will have to return home and be petitioned for anew.

[defunct 0]

The OP has stated within this thread that it is against his/her culture's custom to meet before marriage.

that was not stated...only that it was family arranged...quite common for that part of the world.

If you reread the thread, you'll see that when I first posted, I mentioned that most religions that subscribe to "no meeting before marriage" have a loophole that the couple can meet once only to finalize wedding plans. The OP then replied stating that there is no such loophole in their culture/religion.

I also stated that arranged marriages do not necessarily require the couple not to meet before the marriage takes place. These are two separate issues.

That was my point....there is no such religion that prevents meeting before marriage.

If we're going to argue semantics here, then a religion is often synonomous with a culture's belief system.

[msu17 0]

If there is a cultural reason you 2 cannot meet, then you will need letters from both sets of parents and a religious leader and any other info regarding this practice. Chances of approval aren't great, but worth a shot.

If its an arranged marriage but there is no reason you 2 can't meet in person before the wedding, cancel the petition, go meet them and re-file.

You don't really state in your post if the marriage was just arranged or you are forbidden to meet before the marriage. You must be FORBIDDEN to meet before the wedding in order for the provision in the rule to be valid.

[desert_fox 32]

The OP has stated within this thread that it is against his/her culture's custom to meet before marriage.

that was not stated...only that it was family arranged...quite common for that part of the world.

If you reread the thread, you'll see that when I first posted, I mentioned that most religions that subscribe to "no meeting before marriage" have a loophole that the couple can meet once only to finalize wedding plans. The OP then replied stating that there is no such loophole in their culture/religion.

I also stated that arranged marriages do not necessarily require the couple not to meet before the marriage takes place. These are two separate issues.

That was my point....there is no such religion that prevents meeting before marriage.

If we're going to argue semantics here, then a religion is often synonomous with a culture's belief system.

yes semanics.

My point again...there does not exist any such religion/culture tht prevent two people from meeting, except for the one from Tibet.

you ppl are doing the OP a great disservice by encourging her that this is no problem....this is a problem...aint gonna happen folks.,

[Badgerella 5]

I don't think anyone is saying there is no problem. There is one and it's called - RFE. In order to at least attempt to solve it, the OP needs to submit any and all proof they have and just, basically, hope that it's recognized and accepted.

It's none of our business why the people in question didn't meet before sending in their application. Judging them or their actions, even less so.

[aljhel 0]

I believe that rule shouldn't exist in my opinion. Two people who will join in matrimony should meet in person. If the parents are arranging everything, then the interested parties wouldn't be the fiance' and fiancee, IT IS THE PARENTS! if someone arranges it, thats already a red flag in the process for bona fide relationship determination.

Your best bet is to travel over there, meet her and get to know her in person, then make the call for yourself. It's your pursuit in finding a wife and in MY opinion, it shouldn't be your parents. It's good for you to get to know this woman, because you bring her over here and get married, she decides to leave you, legally she has rights to your property and livelihood. Would you want to share your life's work or savings with a stranger? This is mainly my opinion and you can probably get better advice from other users. This is something to think about. I don't know the marriage laws in India, but here in the U.S. and many states have community property laws which stretch from your home to your investments and your bank accounts.

What IS your reason for filing without meeting in person?

I think she already explained that.

"Thanks for all the responses, I really didn't get a chance to go meet my fiancee who is in india as my parents are the ones who arranged everything as it is done in our culture."

[rebeccajo 14]

Just a little back-history for those of you arguing about the requirement:

When K1 was first formulated in policy, there was no requirement that the parties had met in person.

Over the course of time, there became growing public concern that the visa was being mis-used for the importation of mail-order brides. There was also a concern that said females were using the visa as a way to enter the US when there was no other method available to them.

Policy was subsequently changed to add the meeting requirement in the hope of admitting only persons involved in a legitimate relationship with a USC (and not inconsequentially as an attempt to filter out those persons attempting to enter the US fraudulently because no other visa type was available to them).

[Badgerella 5]

Just a little back-history for those of you arguing about the requirement:

When K1 was first formulated in policy, there was no requirement that the parties had met in person.

Over the course of time, there became growing public concern that the visa was being mis-used for the importation of mail-order brides. There was also a concern that said females were using the visa as a way to enter the US when there was no other method available to them.

Policy was subsequently changed to add the meeting requirement in the hope of admitting only persons involved in a legitimate relationship with a USC (and not inconsequentially as an attempt to filter out those persons attempting to enter the US fraudulently because no other visa type was available to them).

However, the 'new' requirement still does not filter anyone or anything, just adds one more thing to the list of requirements. I am of the opinion that people should meet and, if possible, try co-existing as a couple before they decide to marry, but in some cases and under some circumstances it really may not be possible. The extremes, so to say, would likely be some religious or cultural reasons where people are not even allowed to meet. In this process, with one of the countries (the US, of course) having its doors basically sealed, so many other situations and circumstances come into play. Many a person from some not-the-US country won't be granted a visitor, or any other visa. Many an USC won't have time or money to spend months and months overseas, despite all the desire and goodwill they have. The most will be able to overcome these 'problems', they will have seen each other once, twice, seven times before the interview, but - this still does not make them a couple that has a bona fide relationship, nor does it grant them a happily ever after life. The fact that the two people know each other from their kindergartendays, while living in the same block does not grant them that either. It takes a lot more.

Why am I saying all this? Just to make sure people realize, or at least start putting it into consideration that we can't know how many people, even on this very website, have genuine, bona fide relationships. We can't and do not know how many really will succeed (both the processes and their married life together). Many are probably in it to get out of situations they are not pleased with, both in the US and somewhere overseas. Many do it because they really are convinced it will work out. Many really are no different than a 'normal' couple, from that next-door-kind-of-thing. We do not know who is who, or what reasons they have. And, what I keep repeating, it is none of our business. None at all.

The OP came here asking a question. An answer is acceptable and appreciated. An explanation is just fine, too. Personal experience as well.

Random judgement, lectures and the like should stay behind the screen, if they need to exist in the first place. You don't know whether your relationship is any better than the next person. Why? Because you simply are not that next person and you do not share their situation.

[KimandRuss 0]

agree... opinions are just that.

What we think is of no importance. It is not our place to judge the relationship or anyone else's cultural beliefs.

[pushbrk 12,569]

Just a little back-history for those of you arguing about the requirement:

When K1 was first formulated in policy, there was no requirement that the parties had met in person.

Over the course of time, there became growing public concern that the visa was being mis-used for the importation of mail-order brides. There was also a concern that said females were using the visa as a way to enter the US when there was no other method available to them.

Policy was subsequently changed to add the meeting requirement in the hope of admitting only persons involved in a legitimate relationship with a USC (and not inconsequentially as an attempt to filter out those persons attempting to enter the US fraudulently because no other visa type was available to them).

This is an important clarification but "said females" and "said males" were using the visa fraudulently. The new requirements were not about "said females" but about "people".

[shani_77 0]

Why didn't you get all the docs before filing for K1. It clearly says in instructions what you need. NOw , you are just wasting your and other people's time. You could have gotten all the affadvaits that you can not meet in person before filing. Can you explain why u didn't do that before filing???????? I think even though USCIS approves your case, it could cause more problems at embassy level because they know that unless you are coming from a very very conservative and religious family, it is normal nowadays to meet in person and parents do allow that in India.

There are people from all over the world and from all different kinds of cultures here at VJ. If you didn't want your time wasted you really didn't need to take the time to respond. The OP didn't ask for personal opinions or judgements.

I think we can all stand a little human decency.

OP, I think i've seen a couple of cases approved for this reason but, as stated above, I believe you must present a very strong case for 'cultural reasons'. good luck.

My time was already wasted when I was reading the first post and by the way, I am not judging him. we all make mistakes. All i am saying is that he had enough time and information to gather all the documents. Just making the above statement, you are judging me too!!!!!!!!! Now don't respond to me that I am wasting my time again. It is my time ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am also from a country where in some families, they do not allow u to meet before marriage, so I know where is he coming from. But in India, it is very common nowadays to meet in person and the people in embassy know that. He needs to get those docs and mail it to them.

And my advice is that even the USCIS deny your case, file the appeal, I-290b, with ALL THE REQUIRED PROOFS AND DOCUMENTS AND THEY WILL most likely approve your K1, but be ready for the interview because they will need explanation. Good luck!!!

[dhalia 0]

Hi thanks for all the replies once again. It has been very helpful. I'm going to send the RFE with a letter from our religious leader, and a notarized letter from parents of both parties. Seems like this is the only way to go .... I will def keep you guys posted!! They said that they will look into it after 14 days of receiving all the documents. I hope that would be enough.

My dad is very strict and even tho people in india that are arranged can meet each other he still believes that we shouldn't meet before marriage. He picks the spouse and then the marriage is done pretty quickly, but we wanted to have the wedding here since our whole family is here... otherwise we would have went to india and just done it there.

We weren't really sure of what kind of proof we needed for the exemption when we initially filed.

THANKS A LOT!!

[dhalia 0]

When i said people in India can meet each other ... I meant at least once but there are some parents who are very very strict and still believe very strongly about the old way of doing it.

[geezer 1]

My dad is very strict and even tho people in india that are arranged can meet each other he still believes that we shouldn't meet before marriage. He picks the spouse and then the marriage is done pretty quickly, but we wanted to have the wedding here since our whole family is here... otherwise we would have went to india and just done it there.

It may be that they wont consider your dads wishes to be extraordinary circumstances in this situation. Hopefully not, but you may end up having to travel there and marry and then start the process over with a K-3 or CR-1..

[KimandRuss 0]

Why didn't you get all the docs before filing for K1. It clearly says in instructions what you need. NOw , you are just wasting your and other people's time. You could have gotten all the affadvaits that you can not meet in person before filing. Can you explain why u didn't do that before filing???????? I think even though USCIS approves your case, it could cause more problems at embassy level because they know that unless you are coming from a very very conservative and religious family, it is normal nowadays to meet in person and parents do allow that in India.

There are people from all over the world and from all different kinds of cultures here at VJ. If you didn't want your time wasted you really didn't need to take the time to respond. The OP didn't ask for personal opinions or judgements.

I think we can all stand a little human decency.

OP, I think i've seen a couple of cases approved for this reason but, as stated above, I believe you must present a very strong case for 'cultural reasons'. good luck.

My time was already wasted when I was reading the first post and by the way, I am not judging him. we all make mistakes. All i am saying is that he had enough time and information to gather all the documents. Just making the above statement, you are judging me too!!!!!!!!! Now don't respond to me that I am wasting my time again. It is my time ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am also from a country where in some families, they do not allow u to meet before marriage, so I know where is he coming from. But in India, it is very common nowadays to meet in person and the people in embassy know that. He needs to get those docs and mail it to them.

And my advice is that even the USCIS deny your case, file the appeal, I-290b, with ALL THE REQUIRED PROOFS AND DOCUMENTS AND THEY WILL most likely approve your K1, but be ready for the interview because they will need explanation. Good luck!!!

And, as a moderator of VJ, it is my job to protect the members here from being verbally abused by posters. Therefore, it is my JOB to judge you and your posts here! Firstly, to type in bold letters is considered to be yelling, not to mention how hard it is on the eyes, and I would very much appreciate you not doing that just to be heard. Secondly, the statements I put in bold above are offensive both to the OP and to myself. Such posts are a clear violation of the Terms of Service, which YOU agreed to when signing on to post on Visa Journey and it will not be tolerated...whether you like it or not.